Is Over-Studying Detrimental to a Mathematician's Success?

[simplicity123]

I just feel that if I don't study that much I will not amount to anything. I used to study 10 hours a day two years ago and my grades jumped up a lot. Like I was getting 85-90% in subjects. However, friends on another forum and friends at uni said that I needed to balance life and I started to do less and less work.

Now I'm at the third year think extra work would pay off. Like doing calculus question over and over again won't pay off because calculus is a joke. But, if I spent four hours a day thinking of topology, then I think that would pay off.

I'm thinking that I would eventually end up like Grigori Perelma anyway.

Also, I can't seem to do Maths and everything else. It's like if I watch a TV program then suddenly Maths becomes tedious. But, if I'm stuck in a library and no distractions then I'm doing Maths. Hence, when go back to uni plan to not bring laptop and be in library most of the time. Without any laptop, can't watch TV, play games, go on the internet that much so I would have no distractions.

I read an interesting book. Called Mind of a mathematician. Had story of Andre Weil being locked in a prison, he had nothing to do and no distraction. The story was that in the prison he made his greatest discovery. Feel sort of like that.

 

[lisab]

There's nothing wrong with getting rid of distractions, for sure. But 15 hours a day of studying? That sounds like too much.

 

[simplicity123]

There's nothing wrong with getting rid of distractions, for sure. But 15 hours a day of studying? That sounds like too much.

I was under the impression that Grigori Perelman studied that much from his autobiography. Read that Ramanujan studied that much too. Andre Weils in his prison probably studied that much instead of going on holidays and reading Indian books.

Not saying I'm a genius, but I know that if I study 15 hours a day could do something as great as them.

 

[ZenOne]

No one can sustain that amount of studying for an extended period of time without losing touch with reality IMO.

It's too much. I can understand 10 when it comes to the last few weeks before finals but 15 hours EVERY DAY--no.

 

[simplicity123]

No one can sustain that amount of studying for an extended period of time without losing touch with reality IMO.

It's too much. I can understand 10 when it comes to the last few weeks before finals but 15 hours EVERY DAY--no.

I think that's the point. If I study that much then even when I sleep I will dreaming of Mathematics.

Well, I can physically do it and now I can mentally do it. Like last week I was studying algebra for 10+ hours.

 

[Pengwuino]

Why doesn't anyone ever point out the obvious with insane behavior such as this? You do realize you at some point will have to function in the real world with other people right? And let me just ask do you think it's beneficial or detrimental to cut yourself off from society and all normal human tasks for years at a time?

 

[WannabeNewton]

If I study that much then even when I sleep I will dreaming of Mathematics. Well, I can physically do it and now I can mentally do it. Like last week I was studying algebra for 10+ hours.

Repeat this to yourself and see how scary and insane it sounds. You're just going to overload your mind man. Its good to have a passion for learning but mental functionality should come before that. You can't just neglect your girlfriend, other friends, and/or family.

 

[mlearnx]

I'm afraid that your brain cannot perceive a big amount information during such a long period of study. Even 15 hours of continuous study is possible but still it is ineffective (IMHO).

 

[Stephen Tashi]

Why doesn't anyone ever point out the obvious with insane behavior such as this?

It might be "insane" behavior for a person with a normal psychology. A person with normal psychology would probably have to fight his natural urge to let his mind wander. However, for a person with Asperger's syndrome studying 15 hours a day might be natural behavior and not particularly demanding. There are very successful people who have Asperger's syndrome, for example Dr. Michael Burry. I think simplicity123 must consider whether he has normal psychology.

 

[dimensionless]

No one can sustain that amount of studying for an extended period of time without losing touch with reality IMO.

It's too much. I can understand 10 when it comes to the last few weeks before finals but 15 hours EVERY DAY--no.

I've known people who studied in the ball park of 112 hours per week (16 hours a day) for an entire semester. While they were out of touch with reality, I think they may have started off that way.

 

[simplicity123]

Why doesn't anyone ever point out the obvious with insane behavior such as this? You do realize you at some point will have to function in the real world with other people right? And let me just ask do you think it's beneficial or detrimental to cut yourself off from society and all normal human tasks for years at a time?

Well, I have to do normal task like cook, sleep and study(which, is basically work). I just think of it like Perelman he doesn't care about money, social status, gf and other stuff.

Repeat this to yourself and see how scary and insane it sounds. You're just going to overload your mind man. Its good to have a passion for learning but mental functionality should come before that. You can't just neglect your girlfriend, other friends, and/or family.

Well, I don't think they are important. If I was going to die tomorrow I wouldn't be thinking of friends or family I would be thinking of QM or topology or RH.

I'm afraid that your brain cannot perceive a big amount information during such a long period of study. Even 15 hours of continuous study is possible but still it is ineffective (IMHO).

Well, I don't know about that. Most psychological studies are done on unnatural learning like word lists. Certainly, trying to memorize a word list for 15 hours is pointless. But, maths is a language it's like imagine speaking 15 hours in a different language.

 

[DrummingAtom]

No one can sustain that amount of studying for an extended period of time without losing touch with reality IMO.

Well, if that's the case, it only can only make the OP better at math because math is very out of touch with reality.

 

[ZenOne]

Law of diminishing returns:

The tendency for a continuing application of effort or skill toward a particular project or goal to decline in effectiveness after a certain level of result has been achieved.

 

[simplicity123]

It might be "insane" behavior for a person with a normal psychology. A person with normal psychology would probably have to fight his natural urge to let his mind wander. However, for a person with Asperger's syndrome studying 15 hours a day might be natural behavior and not particularly demanding. There are very successful people who have Asperger's syndrome, for example Dr. Michael Burry. I think simplicity123 must consider whether he has normal psychology.

I suffer pretty badly from OCD. So I'm not normal.

 

[simplicity123]

Law of diminishing returns:

The tendency for a continuing application of effort or skill toward a particular project or goal to decline in effectiveness after a certain level of result has been achieved.

I used to think that was true. But, Broodwar changed my views.


These are the two best Broodwar players today. However, both play 12+ hours a day. They live in team houses and have food cooked for them. All they do is jog for half an hour before they have dinner. But, like 12 hours a day and there hands are doing 400 actions per minute.

 

[Pengwuino]

Well, I have to do normal task like cook, sleep and study(which, is basically work). I just think of it like Perelman he doesn't care about money, social status, gf and other stuff.

That's not normal tasks, those are the tasks you need to stay alive. Normal tasks are having friends, having social contacts, learning how to interact with other people. Studying a field and having no friends and no job (remember you WILL have to interview for a job and exist in a workplace) is a pathetic life to any standard.

 

[ZenOne]

Video game players?

That's hardly equivalent to math or physics.

I love math, physics and engineering but I also love life--it inspires my love for such topics. If you don't live life it will drain your inspiration--IMO , of course.

 

[Choppy]

One might also draw into question exactly what you mean by 'studying' as well.

At some point, you need some real-world experience so you can know what problems are practical to work on and to give you a foundation for generating your own ideas. Some students will push themselves to the limits studying exactly what they're told to study and they'll get great marks doing so. But you need to learn how to explore things on your own and sometimes that means exploring things that are completely unrelated to what's covered in your classes. Students who don't do this can sometimes hit a brick wall once the get to their PhD or post-doctoral work because they cannot generate their own ideas.

By the context of your original post though, limiting distractions while you study is a good thing. Eventually you'll find your own balance of how much studying is right for you - the concern of course is that the road along the way can be bumpy.

 

[deluks917]

I study about 60 hours a week outside of class. I think 50-70 is reasonable. If you are taking 4 classes and study 60 hours that's only 15 hours per week which isn't a huge amount if they are difficult classes.

15 hours a day is too much unless you manage on very little sleep (3-4 hours). Your psychological health will suffer if you have no friends or time to relax. Look at Perelman, he had a breakdown and is no longer getting much math done.

 

[Anonymous217]

To be honest, nobody really studies 15 hours a day (productively, that is). I've always taken quite daring courseloads, but I always limit myself to 2-4 hours of work within one session. And I usually only commit about 1-2 sessions every weekday and about 2-3 (4 rarely) sessions on weekends.

There's really no point to studying if you're spending half an hour on definition-chasing problems or 5 hours to get through 10 pages of a text (and actually understanding it all instead of re-reading the lines over and over, hoping it eventually sinks in). Especially in more advanced topics/mathematics, there's a point in which you just have to keep seeing the material over and over again, and with time, you'll eventually understand it. It's not something that can be shot down necessarily with an intense 15 hour session.

 

[ZenOne]

I completely agree.

 

[chiro]

That's not normal tasks, those are the tasks you need to stay alive. Normal tasks are having friends, having social contacts, learning how to interact with other people. Studying a field and having no friends and no job (remember you WILL have to interview for a job and exist in a workplace) is a pathetic life to any standard.

So what about all those people with disabilities like severe autism? You think they live pathetic lives?

 

[Anonymous217]

^ Even in terms of academics, it's a mute point to cut off social contacts. Science is a collaborative effort and you'll need networking if you're ever going to get far into academics.

 

[smashbrohamme]

So what about all those people with disabilities like severe autism? You think they live pathetic lives?

technically they do live pathetic lives...it doesn't mean you can't feel sorry for them or you should cast them out of society.

but let's face it, their lives are horrible.

they will always have to rely on other people to take care of them, they can't ever do what they want because they never grow up technically.

and I am sure you can find one example out of a million that some person who has severe autism is working on their own or some bs, but let's face it..the average severe autism case is bounded to a care giver.

so please don't try to bring in an example with a remark that tries to make someone feel bad, when in reality we all know that remark is true.

 

[Pengwuino]

So what about all those people with disabilities like severe autism? You think they live pathetic lives?

I know people with autism that have social lives and jobs. Are you implying they are incapable of having this?

Also, your point is totally irrelevant and off-topic. The OP did not claim he had severe autism. He is making a choice as to how he lives his life and we are discussing possible consequences.

 

[chiro]

technically they do live pathetic lives...it doesn't mean you can't feel sorry for them or you should cast them out of society.

but let's face it, their lives are horrible.

they will always have to rely on other people to take care of them, they can't ever do what they want because they never grow up technically.

and I am sure you can find one example out of a million that some person who has severe autism is working on their own or some bs, but let's face it..the average severe autism case is bounded to a care giver.

so please don't try to bring in an example with a remark that tries to make someone feel bad, when in reality we all know that remark is true.

I'm not feeling bringing up to make someone feel bad, I'm just really shocked of what someone's idea of a "pathetic" life is.

Granted these people face a lot of struggles (as I have meant some of these people), but to class life as pathetic is really ignorant.

And people can have very "severe" personalities where they are very withdrawn from the rest of the world and still have something to offer.

 

[chiro]

I know people with autism that have social lives and jobs. Are you implying they are incapable of having this?

Also, your point is totally irrelevant and off-topic. The OP did not claim he had severe autism. He is making a choice as to how he lives his life and we are discussing possible consequences.

No not at all, like I said in the prior post, I'm replying to what you're idea of "pathetic" is.

 

[snowman]

I suffer pretty badly from OCD. So I'm not normal.

Ahaaah! that explains it. I'm also guessing your indian or azn and that you have a shytload of fam pressure on you??

 

[Angry Citizen]

Anyone who spends that much time studying has missed the point of studying. It's not about quantity, it's about quality. I bet I would be equally or more skilled studying fifteen hours a WEEK (more during exam time/final time) than you would be studying fifteen hours a DAY. Why? Because not only do you run into diminishing returns as mentioned earlier, but at some point you run into negative returns, where it becomes damaging to you to study and study and study with no breaks.

 

[Bourbaki1123]

Given the role of sleep in processing information you take in, it seems like the optimum approach is probably something along the lines of: study for 3-5 hours, and then take a nap, and then study 3-5 hours when you wake up and then go do something else, and quickly recap before going to bed, perhaps using anki style flashcards.

I don't think you will process the optimum amount of information properly if you're not breaking it up, and if you break it up then you can't fit in 15 hours unless it's the summer.

 

[Nano-Passion]

Repeat this to yourself and see how scary and insane it sounds. You're just going to overload your mind man. Its good to have a passion for learning but mental functionality should come before that. You can't just neglect your girlfriend, other friends, and/or family.

I see this a lot around the forum, but isn't this how a lot of the geniuses were made? Don't geniuses have a fixed obsession of learning certain topics say for example 10 hours a day.

Just a question though. Hope someone would clear that up. Definitely not recommending the original poster to study 15 hours a day.

To OP: You will run into a lot of problems that way. Studying all day with no exercise isn't exactly smart for your health. You only have 9 hours left of the day which you need for sleep. You need time to take breaks or you won't retain the information as much, and you still need to eat, drink, rest, etc.

How long do you think you can sustain 15 hours a day of study? A professor of mine was a mathematician, he told me how he studied 18 hours a day this college summer and he was so out of touch with reality. He told me of the time he went to order grocery food and the lady asked him a question, he whispered, when she said she didn't hear him he raised his voice too much.

Its just an example that extended periods of isolation just isn't THAT great. I see the professor a lot and he sometimes seems really out of touch with reality, I remember speaking with him a couple of times and his mind was completely drifting off somewhere else. Granted though, he is actually my favorite math/physics professor.

 

[lisab]

I see this a lot around the forum, but isn't this how a lot of the geniuses were made? Don't geniuses have a fixed obsession of learning certain topics say for example 10 hours a day.

I bet many of us have known these kind of people, who are completely obsessed and study extremely long hours. But sometimes they are compelled to study by a certain "something" (autism? mental health issues? I don't know).

I don't think their obsession is particularly healthy, either - I've known people who neglect personal hygiene, for example, because they study compulsively.

My point is, I think that "something" - call it genius, I guess - comes first, the compulsive study is a result of that. I don't think someone can become that kind of genius simply by mimicking how they study, or any other compulsive thing they do.

 

[-Dragoon-]

That's not normal tasks, those are the tasks you need to stay alive. Normal tasks are having friends, having social contacts, learning how to interact with other people. Studying a field and having no friends and no job (remember you WILL have to interview for a job and exist in a workplace) is a pathetic life to any standard.

You're projecting your values. One can have social skills without ever having a friend. Some people prefer to study and keep to themselves rather than being social butterflies. Why is this so hard for some people to accept, especially on an educational forum?

 

[Nano-Passion]

I bet many of us have known these kind of people, who are completely obsessed and study extremely long hours. But sometimes they are compelled to study by a certain "something" (autism? mental health issues? I don't know).

I don't think their obsession is particularly healthy, either - I've known people who neglect personal hygiene, for example, because they study compulsively.

My point is, I think that "something" - call it genius, I guess - comes first, the compulsive study is a result of that. I don't think someone can become that kind of genius simply by mimicking how they study, or any other compulsive thing they do.

I agree. One should then do what makes them relatively comfortable. For the OP: If on a certain day you feel particularly passionate about a problem/concept, go ahead, spend as much time as you like. But never try and force yourself to study a certain amount in hopes of being a great mathematician/physicist. It doesn't work that way. If you attempt to do that you will quickly burn yourself out and hurt your education even more.

For an extended period of time I focused on physics and calculus from sleep and back nonstop. It was a sure way to burn myself out. If I had spent 6 hours a day then I would have gotten much more done. But instead I spent the last half of my summer staying away from calculus and physics as a break.

 

[Lavabug]

I've only hit the 15-hour mark on counted occasions, but I'd say 40% of that time wasn't productive (poor concentration from exhaustion, hitting a wall, etc.).

The ratio of productive:ineffective study time doesn't seem to improve for me unless I'm just studying for 1-2 hours, which is way too little anyway.

I agree with "quality over quantity for sure", but unless you're flawlessly efficient with your time, the more the merrier. Just don't pull 12-hour sessions regularly. Get your share of exercise, distractions/vacations, etc every now and then, because your health comes first.