Interstellar: A Visual Masterpiece with Disappointing Writing and Physics

[hankaaron]

I saw "Interstellar"in IMAX. Fantastic visuals, but lazy dumb writing and very bad basic physics. Kip Thorne should be embarrassed to have is name so prominently associated with the movie.

 

[Doug Huffman]

Do you have criticism of specific points which are not constrained by the medium?

 

[phinds]

I saw "Interstellar"in IMAX. Fantastic visuals, but lazy dumb writing and very bad basic physics. Kip Thorne should be embarrassed to have is name so prominently associated with the movie.

Yeah apparently so. I just read a BIG piece on it in Time magazine and after emphasizing over and over how the director was adamant about using actual science, not science fiction, it then went on to describe some of the physics in the movie and while it didn't sound quite like they were just making stuff up, it sounded ridiculous by the standards of today's technology.

 

[hankaaron]

Do you have criticism of specific points which are not constrained by the medium?

I don't think I could provide a better critique than this review:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...vie_s_black_holes_wormholes_relativity.2.html

 

[Bandersnatch]

I don't think I could provide a better critique than this review:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...vie_s_black_holes_wormholes_relativity.2.html

Man, that's disappointing. Looks like it's just Prometheus all over again.

 

[Doug Huffman]

So, Slate is somehow equivalent or appropriate to PF?

 

[Bandersnatch]

So, Slate is somehow equivalent or appropriate to PF?

What do you mean? Should we cite only peer reviewed papers from reputable journals when talking about movies?

 

[Doug Huffman]

In the instant case, my request was "Do you have criticism of specific points ... ?" Hardly a request for reputability.

I remember when Scientific American was considered reputable.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

For reviews of popular media magazines are an acceptable source. This isn't really a scientific discussion. I've yet to see the film, hankaaron can you outline what you specifically had a problem with? Science fiction by it's very necessity has to utilise speculative science/technology. Is this the problem or did the plot rely on some fundamental misunderstandings of known science?

 

[Bandersnatch]

The Slate article was written by Phil Plait of Bad Astronomy, by the way.

Some of the points he mentions are:
-habitable planets around a black hole, with sunlight!
-a planet orbiting the black hole near the event horizon(way past the Roche limit)
-said planet having tidal waves(i.e., not being tidally locked)
-vastly egaggerated gravitational time dilation
-accretion disk being cold
-no spaghettification

But more importantly, he makes a point that the characters don't talk or act like people. This coupled with the general clumsiness of the plot and hamfistedly telegraphed messages makes it impossible to overlook the dodgy science.

 

[hankaaron]

God, where do I start? Well first of all it's never good when a movie starts with a flashback scene where the protagonist is facing possible death, followed by the character suddenly waking up in bed. Now I have go through the whole considering that everything to follow isn't real. The flashback isn't even relevant to anything in the movie. But here's a list of my major gripes. Spoilers below so beware.1. Being anywhere near a few billion miles of a black hole- much less surviving one.

2. Escaping a black hole.

3. They need a Saturn V rocket to escape Earth's gravity. But have no problem leaving in a small shuttle craft from the surface of a planet (on the other side of the wormhole) with 130 percent of Earth's gravity.

4. In the movie NASA is a stealth organization. People have been led to believe that the moon landings were faked and that NASA had been disbanded decades ago. However this stealth NASA has no problem launching Saturn V rockets in the middle of populated areas. There's even a scene where Cooper’s (Matthew McConaughey) family watches the launching of his rocket from their farmhouse..

5. Apparently during Cooper's training no one bothered to ask if he knew anything about wormholes.

6. The movie has one of those chicken or the egg plot devices where Cooper (near the film's end) uses gravity to move books and manipulate dust to send coded messages to himself and his daughter. But wait, that’s not the worst part.

One message is “Stay”. It’s a message for him not to accept the mission and leave Earth and his family. But the other message is the coordinates to the secret NASA base. But he wanted to send messages to stay on earth, then why the hell would he also send himself the location to NASA.7. A wormhole is barely just outside of the planet Saturn’s orbit. Just on the other side of the wormhole is a supermassive black hole. Why the gaseous planet isn’t sucked into the wormhole is a question Kip Thorne should answer.There’s a lot more than that. Including one of the worst lines in a Hollywood movie since “Love is never having to say you’re sorry”.

 

[KrisOhn]

This is very disappointing, I was very excited to go see the movie in its full IMAX glory. Oh well...

 

[hankaaron]

This is very disappointing, I was very excited to go see the movie in its full IMAX glory. Oh well...

IMAX was great visually. Visually, its stunning. But the sound was a mix bag. Great for loud passages and effects, awful for dialog. It may still be worth seeing. I kind of expected to be disappointed- just not to the extent that I was.

 

[hankaaron]

Man, that's disappointing. Looks like it's just Prometheus all over again.

Yes, I know what you mean. I liked Prometheus somewhat right after seeing it. But the more I thought about it... yikes! I completely disliked Interstellar when I left the theater. In fact during the "wrestling match" scene I consider walking out of the IMAX theater.

 

[Pete Cortez]

I don't think I could provide a better critique than this review:
http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...vie_s_black_holes_wormholes_relativity.2.html

I wish you would try. I haven't seen the movie yet, but off the bat I'm wondering why Plait is whining about "accretion disks" that are discernible at cosmological distances when the visual apparently involves objects many, many orders of magnitude closer to one another. It's also never a good start when someone starts talking about getting turned into spaghetti by tides without even discussing the scale of distances and gravitation involved.

 

[DaveC426913]

-no spaghettification

Wait. What?

I'm going to see this tomorrow night. I'm not holding my breath for a great sci-fi.

But did assume that, when I heard they were talking black holes for travel, they would at least address the giant elephant - i.e. how you get through a black hole without spaghettification.

Are they really just ignoring that? Then this is just a fantasy. They might as well hitch a carriage to a flock of swans.

 

[hankaaron]

But did assume that, when I heard they were talking black holes for travel, they would at least address the giant elephant - i.e. how you get through a black hole without spaghettification.

No spaghettification. More like an airplane flight through a turbulent hail storm. You'd think maybe we'd see a minor character meet there demise via spaghettification. But nope.

 

[DaveC426913]

I think when that scene is coming up, I'll take a stroll to get some popcorn, while repeating to myself "...and then magic happens!"

 

[phinds]

maybe it's a supermassive BH, in which case sphagettification doesn't happen until well inside the EH. On the other hand, there's that business about being on a planet so close to a BH that gravitational time dilation is 7 days to 1 hour, but apparently the associated gravity that could CAUSE that large a gravitational time dilation is no problem at all.

From everything I've seen/heard, the science is just stupid even though Kip Thorne was an advisor on the movie. Dave, I'll be interested to hear what you have to report after seeing it. I was psyched to see it when I first heard about it, but now I've already decided to give it a pass.

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm going to push for 'Big Hero Six' instead. Prolly more scientifically accurate.

 

[phinds]

I'm going to push for 'Big Hero Six' instead. Prolly more scientifically accurate.

Sounds like more fun too. That's on my definite list.I'm a sucker for animation.

 

[Fredrik]

If it's really a supermassive black hole, there's no (noticeable) spaghettification as you fall through the event horizon. That comes later. We don't how far

Spoiler

...he had fallen before he was sucked into the magical place that "they" had created for him.

 

[Danger]

I'll take a miss on this one. As with most movies that I might enjoy, but am not certain about, I'll wait until it comes on TV. If it's something that I know I'll like, such as most Marvel stuff, I'll buy the DVD. (Not blue-ray; why pay for a picture that my eyes aren't good enough to appreciate?*) This sounds like I probably won't like it because it pretends to be science. I like Star Wars just fine because it doesn't.

*I know that might sound hypocritical since I'm on a Pro Retina MacBook, but for my graphics I put on my reading glasses on the maximum zoom settings.

 

[DaveC426913]

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Too much movie for one skull to hold...

I take back all the doubt I had. It has been a long long time since I have sat so slack-jawed in wide-eyed wonder in a movie theatre.

No, I know exactly how long it's been. Since Inception hit the theatres.

You could love this or you could hate it. It takes some risks, and for some they might be deal-breakers. But you shouldn't pass on it.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Too much movie for one skull to hold...

I take back all the doubt I had. It has been a long long time since I have sat so slack-jawed in wide-eyed wonder in a movie theatre.

No, I know exactly how long it's been. Since Inception hit the theatres.

You could love this or you could hate it. It takes some risks, and for some they might be deal-breakers. But you shouldn't pass on it.

That's probably the most positive Big Hero Six review I've seen so far. :P

 

[DaveC426913]

That's probably the most positive Big Hero Six review I've seen so far. :p

Heh.

But in case there's any ambiguity, the review was for Interstellar.

 

[Drakkith]

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Too much movie for one skull to hold...

I take back all the doubt I had. It has been a long long time since I have sat so slack-jawed in wide-eyed wonder in a movie theatre.

No, I know exactly how long it's been. Since Inception hit the theatres.

You could love this or you could hate it. It takes some risks, and for some they might be deal-breakers. But you shouldn't pass on it.

Agreed. I thought it was a great movie for the most part.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Go away Drakkith and DaveC426913! This thread is a bonding experience for people who like bitching about movies so that we can feel superior.
We don't need your kind around here.

And you, DaveC426914... you played us with your false promises. "Oh, I'mma going to see a cartoon instead!", "Sphaghettification grumble grumble".
We trusted you. We were invested in your vitriol. You're like that conservative 13 year old who turned liberal as soon as he grew up a few inches and started shaving. Shame on you.But seriously, would those of you who have seen it say it's a big screen-only experience? Sort of like Gravity, where it loses enough impact viewed on a small screen to feel bland?

 

[Drakkith]

Go away Drakkith and DaveC426913! This thread is a bonding experience for people who like bitching about movies so that we can feel superior.
We don't need your kind around here.

:L

But seriously, would those of you who have seen it say it's a big screen-only experience? Sort of like Gravity, where it loses enough impact viewed on a small screen to feel bland?

No, I don't think the film relies on visuals as much as Gravity did.

 

[Fredrik]

Go away Drakkith and DaveC426913! This thread is a bonding experience for people who like bitching about movies so that we can feel superior.
We don't need your kind around here.

And you, DaveC426914... you played us with your false promises. "Oh, I'mma going to see a cartoon instead!", "Sphaghettification grumble grumble".
We trusted you. We were invested in your vitriol. You're like that conservative 13 year old who turned liberal as soon as he grew up a few inches and started shaving. Shame on you.But seriously, would those of you who have seen it say it's a big screen-only experience? Sort of like Gravity, where it loses enough impact viewed on a small screen to feel bland?

It's certainly much better than Gravity. I think it's a "must see" in spite of the flaws, but you'll have to decide for yourself if you must see it now or if you must see it later. It depends on the answer to questions like:

1. Do you usually watch all sci-fi?
2. Do you think your movie theater's popcorn is more awesome than anything you can get at home?
3. Do you hate watching long movies (2:51 I think) in an uncomfortable seat?
4. Is there a way to make yourself more comfortable (like get a seat on a row with extra leg space, at a time of day where the theater isn't crowded, so that you can put down your dang on the seat next to yours)?

Since you almost made a positive comment about Gravity, I think we will have to get Greg to revoke your bitching rights in this thread. ;)

 

[hankaaron]

Man. I must be in a parallel universe. Interstellar is a woefully written film.

 

[jshrager]

I have to agree that it's a terrible movie. There's about ten minutes of good effects, and 170 minute of stupidity. I lost my suspension of disbelief at about 5 minutes in - I'm okay with making up unknown physics, but not getting known physics so badly muddled up. And the emotional subtext thudded like lead. I'm going to watch 2001 again sometime soon to clear my nausea.

 

[hankaaron]

I'm going to watch 2001 again sometime soon to clear my nausea.

I had the same idea last night. And I would have if the LSU-Alabama game wasn't on last night (which btw, was another classic).

 

[OmCheeto]

Perhaps we should put Plait and Thorne in a boxing ring, and let them duke it out:

Plait
The real problem isn’t with the science, it’s with the story. I’m sure Thorne knew the science was (way) off, but I can guess that director and screenwriter Christopher Nolan chose to ignore those issues in order to advance his story.

Wait, what? The real problem isn't with the science, but the science was (way) off? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Thorne
Science: Is there anywhere the moviemakers strayed outside your guidelines?

Thorne: Not seriously. The one place where I am the least comfortable is on [a] planet where they have these ice clouds. These structures go beyond what I think the material strength of ice would be able to support. But I’d say if that’s the most egregious violation of physical law, they’ve done very, very well. There’s some artistic license there.

Ice clouds. He didn't like the ice clouds.

hmmmm...

Phil has a PhD in astronomy.
Kip has a PhD in physics.

I'm leaning towards Kip at the moment.

Also, Kip's description of the images of black holes, and the tesseract sounds really interesting.
Does anyone have an image of the black hole from the movie?
The ones I've seen on the internet always struck me as a bit wrong.

Never mind. google google google

What's this?

Followup: Interstellar Mea Culpa
Phil Plait
Every now and again, I screw up. Sometimes it’s small, sometimes it’s big, and I try to admit it when I do. It helps you, the reader, understand things better when I ‘fess up, and it keeps me honest. Also, after all, science is all about admitting mistakes and learning from them!
...
Spoilers ahoy! I have to reveal critical plot points about the movie, so if you haven’t seen it and wish your viewing experience to remain pristine, then you should stop here.
...

Ok. I stopped reading. I should go watch the movie.

ps. Does anyone know what "mea culpa" means?

 

[OmCheeto]

Wow.



Kip still uses, chalk...