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http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hgDKj0AzfQ9SWdrvaiWh-7P7JMdgFidel Castro resigned Tuesday...
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http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hgDKj0AzfQ9SWdrvaiWh-7P7JMdgFidel Castro resigned Tuesday...
Does he have a dumber son with the same first name?Greg Bernhardt said:So Castro's brother will rule for another 50 years? What will change?
Can you call them freedom sandwiches ?jimmysnyder said:eat those Cuban Sandwiches
mgb_phys said:Can you call them freedom sandwiches ?
How amusing! Here's some more: perhaps Castro could anoint an inbred Royal Family with a http://www.salon.com/sept97/news/news970902.html" heir to the thrown.mgb_phys said:Does he have a dumber son with the same first name?
Yes it was all CIA propaganda. Cuban troops or advisers in: Angola (50,000 troops), Ethiopia (24,000), Yemen, Grenada. Congo, NicaraguaOur warmest felicitations to our American cousins who will no longer have to live under the constant fear of Cuban aggression.
We are very impressed, it's taken the royal houses of Europe centuries to achieve this level of imbicility - what's the secret to doing it so quickly?mheslep said:an inbred Royal Family with a rather dim and unpopular heir to the thrown.
So with them all safely in Africa they aren't likely to invade Florida!Yes it was all CIA propaganda. Cuban troops or advisers in: Angola (50,000 troops), Ethiopia (24,000), Yemen, Grenada. Congo, Nicaragua
mheslep said:Yes it was all CIA propaganda. Cuban troops or advisers in: … Nicaragua
See the context. It was in response to a pretense that Cuba was never a military threat to anyone. The big bad US and little old helpless Cuba theme.CaptainQuasar said:You're not seriously going to criticize Cuba for taking sides in conflicts elsewhere in the world, are you? When the U.S. is going to be heading into its 5th year occupying Iraq shortly?⚛
mheslep said:See the context. It was in response to a pretense that Cuba was never a military threat to anyone. The big bad US and little old helpless Cuba theme.
Freedom isn't when they build a McDonalds, or a Burger King. Its when they build both of them and one goes out of business.CaptainQuasar said:Not until there is a McDonalds and a Burger King and a Pizza Hut on every corner in Cuba and a Wal-mart in every town. Only then will they truly be free.
jimmysnyder said:Freedom isn't when they build a McDonalds, or a Burger King. Its when they build both of them and one goes out of business.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!CaptainQuasar said:silly swear-words.
They have freedom in jail too. It just isn't my kind of freedom.CaptainQuasar said:I'm My point was that they already have freedom in Cuba, it just isn't our kind of freedom.
jimmysnyder said:They have freedom in jail too. It just isn't my kind of freedom.
Yes, wasn't claiming any American exceptionalism. Hey Captain, what's with theCaptainQuasar said:Ah, I see. You were just responding to some America-bashing with some Brit-bashing. Well I'm all for bashing the Brits! They've got big ears and silly swear-words.⚛
Yes, any business large or small. Let the customers decide who will prosper. When the government decides who is allowed to do business, you end up with Cuban freedom.CaptainQuasar said:Does it really fit better that our idea of freedom involves the franchises of multinational corporations being able to duke it out,
Everyone large or small must have access to the legal system or you end up with Cuban freedom.CaptainQuasar said:or Monsanto successfully suing farmers out of existence because some GMO pollen blew into their field,
Smoking in the ICU is outlawed as well. Under the current system, you can smoke and I can refrain. What's wrong with that? You can even smoke Cubans, you just have to step outside that's all.CaptainQuasar said:or smoking in all restaurants being outlawed in some states,
The regime behind Bay of Pigs is no longer in power and the regime behind the Iraq occupation is going away soon. The alternative is Cuban freedom.CaptainQuasar said:or the Bay of Pigs invasion, or invading and occupying Iraq for the past 5 years and who knows how many more,
You are right, this is not freedom. Neither is it a reason to head south. Under Cuban freedom they take your land too.CaptainQuasar said:or the government seizing land rights from private owners to protect the environment?
Yes, we should. We should build all kinds of businesses and watch 80% of them fail. We should preserve our precious freedoms and those of our neighbors. We should do things that other people don't want us to do. The Cubans, and the world can see what a noisy thing freedom is, and may their tongues hang out.CaptainQuasar said:I don't think we're the ones to be schooling Cuba on what freedom is.
mheslep said:Yes, wasn't claiming any American exceptionalism. Hey Captain, what's with the⚛?
Yes I have uni support and see Sir R.'s model. I just didn't get the meaning of your salutation.CaptainQuasar said:That's the Unicode atomic symbol, which looks like the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rutherford_model" . If it looks like a question mark to you that means that your computer doesn't fully support Unicode, or at least that all of the fonts you have are missing that character.
jimmysnyder said:Yes, any business large or small. Let the customers decide who will prosper. When the government decides who is allowed to do business, you end up with Cuban freedom.
jimmysnyder said:Everyone large or small must have access to the legal system or you end up with Cuban freedom.
jimmysnyder said:Smoking in the ICU is outlawed as well. Under the current system, you can smoke and I can refrain. What's wrong with that? You can even smoke Cubans, you just have to step outside that's all.
jimmysnyder said:The regime behind Bay of Pigs is no longer in power and the regime behind the Iraq occupation is going away soon. The alternative is Cuban freedom.
jimmysnyder said:You are right, this is not freedom. Neither is it a reason to head south. Under Cuban freedom they take your land too.
jimmysnyder said:Yes, we should. We should build all kinds of businesses and watch 80% of them fail. We should preserve our precious freedoms and those of our neighbors. We should do things that other people don't want us to do. The Cubans, and the world can see what a noisy thing freedom is, and may their tongues hang out.
mheslep said:Yes I have uni support and see Sir R.'s model. I just didn't get the meaning of your salutation.
Bogus. You didn't read that in any respectable news source because it never happened.the attempt against Chavez in Venezuela in 2001 - ever wonder why he hates us so much?
mheslep said:Bogus. You didn't read that in any respectable news source because it never happened.
Eh? NY Times etc would not absolutely run over your grandmother to get a story on how the US was staging a coup somewhere? Every opposition Senator would not run over your dog to get the same?CaptainQuasar said:Because respectable news sources would definitely report something like that.
There's an entire documentary on how Bush blew up the WTC.I would agree that there isn't ironclad evidence - but that's not the same as “bogus”. There's an entire documentary, made by a team that was in Venezuela when the coup happened, about how cozy the coup leaders and American interests were.
Its evident that the US publicly opposed Chavez, diplomatically. With regards to force, I know first hand that the US DoD sent people down there that told the V. military the US wanted no coup. Further, US got word to Chavez directly warning him of a possible coup, though he'd have to be an idiot to not see it coming w/ the mass protests in the streets. As for sympathy for Chavez, I have none. I hope the US foreign policy was and is to do everything diplomatically possible to peacefully oppose that wannabe tyrant (https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11840&d=1196721676") and every other tyrant be it in Burma, Cuba, or anywhere else.Would you at least concede that the U.S. government did not exactly denounce the coup?
Like you say, that was the cold war, give it a rest. The cold war, in order to keep from becoming a hot war, involved using proxies, sometimes foolishly. If there's some other innocent grand plan hidden away to contain the Soviet Union I'm unaware of it. BTW, proxies, some of them equally loathsome, are still touted by some (Paul) as the way Saddam Hussein should have been contained. I fail to see how it would have been so pure and good to contain Saddam and at the same time so evil to use proxies back in the cold war. And no, since the cold war AFAIK we don't do things 'like that'.And it's not exactly like we don't do things like that. You aren't disputing Mossadegh or any of the other stuff I said, I notice.
I hope we can get away from assertion based posts and back to the excellent, well referenced ones I've seen in the past.Have you seen the photographs of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam Hussein in the 1980's? Most people in leadership positions in the U.S. do not give a rat's behind about democracy and freedom. I am not kidding and these things cannot be dismissed as fantasies of conspiracy theorists.
mheslep said:Like you say, that was the cold war, give it a rest.
mheslep said:'I am not kidding'? I hope we can get away from assertion based posts and back to the excellent, well referenced ones we've had in the past.
mheslep said:Eh? NY Times etc would not absolutely run over your grandmother to get a story on how the US was staging a coup somewhere? Every opposition Senator would not run over your dog to get the same?
I apologize if I sounded condescending. Hey if you, or anyone else on PF that's been here awhile has 1st hand non public info that furthers any discussion I'm interested to see it, esp. if its about specific US officials opposing democratic initiatives. I'm not interested in broad sweeping, stated as irrefutable assertions about all US leadership.BTW, you say this after presenting first-hand anecdotal evidence about the Chavez thing?
You requested references for the Chavez thing and I responded: it's not ironclad, I don't have any, that doesn't mean it didn't happen. But I will take your anecdote into account in thinking about that in the future.
Yes agreed those events in the 50's etc are historical. I don't see that it follows necessarily that freedom and democracy are well down on our list because: 1) As I said those events were rightly and wrongly done as part of the cold war. Again, I ask given the Soviet Union what should have been done instead? Nothing? Have 'regime change' in a nuclear Moscow? 2) The whole neocon argument is to spread freedom and democracy, even at the cost of violently intervening, the idea being that puppet tyrants don't work, never did, they inevitably breed instability and the only true stability in the world comes via democracy. I think this policy was taken up recklessly and with some hubris, but one certainly can't say that freedom and democracy was low on the list of neocon policy.But that's one of many different historical occurances I have cited to demonstrate that freedom and democracy very frequently rate pretty darn low on our list. The other ones I thought were reasonably established fact, but feel free to ask for references on anything you want.