Are women more dishonest than men

[turbo]

or perhaps are they more apt to commit crimes of opportunity? Every couple of months (at most here) there are front-page stories about people stealing money from small businesses and municipalities. Almost exclusively, these people are women. Treasurers, bookkeepers, tax-collectors, mostly. Most recently, I have been stressed by a situation that my 25 years younger brother has been facing. For a few months, a temporary hire (training employee) has been forging his signatures on checks, and has managed to steal over $15K from his employer. He was not under suspicion for long, but the fact that this person managed to use his name to steal is quite troubling.

 

[micromass]

Or maybe women are smarter than men and get away with it.

I'm sorry for your brother, I hope it turns out OK for him!

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I wasn't sure, so I asked my wife. It turns out that women are more honest than men.

 

[Evo]

I wasn't sure, so I asked my wife. It turns out that women are more honest than men.

 

[turbo]

Or maybe women are smarter than men and get away with it.

I'm sorry for your brother, I hope it turns out OK for him!

My brother is OK. He is the acting manager of the plant. Now, it turns on who is responsible for the charges that the creep who tried cheating the company.

 

[turbo]

I wasn't sure, so I asked my wife. It turns out that women are more honest than men.

Was that even in question?

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes, women are horrible

 

[Newai]

Maybe it's treated as more newsworthy for women criminals, so they are getting more attention?

 

[Proton Soup]

honest women make terrible mothers

 

[HeLiXe]

Yes, women are horrible

 

[edward]

Women get all of the lower paying jobs like, handling the money, and cutting the checks. If the jobs payed better more men would do them and they would do the scamming.

Um I think that this means women have more opportunity.

 

[turbo]

Women get all of the lower paying jobs like, handling the money, and cutting the checks. If the jobs payed better more men would do them and they would do the scamming.

Um I think that this means women have more opportunity.

You may be right, though the jobs that administrators and municipal officers have don't pay all that much less than the general rank-and-file jobs with those entities.

Embezzling and theft by deception are crimes that hit the front pages of our newspaper quite frequently, and the perpetrators are overwhelmingly female. My wife usually comments something on the line of "couldn't that bimbo have covered it up better" and "if you're going to commit a felony, why not steal more". It's pretty ridiculous to see the penalties handed out, too. When a trusted town employee has stolen a couple of hundred thousand dollars or more from their community, and a judge orders probation and restitution, how is that ever going to happen? Nobody with two brain cells is going to let that person near their finances, so another similar job is out (and this is a small state, with people who actually stay relatively well-informed) and it's hard to see how such a slime-ball can be compelled to repay their theft in a time-frame that is remotely comparable to their theft.

I'm very upset that my brother had to have been implicated in the fraud against his employer, but the fact is that it could have been anybody else, too. The person who forged his name on purchase orders, checks, etc, would have targeted anybody in his position.

[Edit] I should point out that he is the manager of a very small plant that produces custom extruded plastic materials, and is responsible for quality-control, and has to supervise the shut-downs, clean-ups, and line-starts involved with switching from making one product to another. He really does not have time during the day to chase down all the financial transactions done in his name to make sure that somebody is not posting fake charges and stealing money. The poor guy is chained to his job by his cell phone, and is on-call all the time.

 

[KingNothing]

I don't think they are more dishonest or more likely to be criminals.

I do, however, think men and women communicate differently and this can sometimes be seen as dishonesty.

 

[turbo]

I don't think they are more dishonest or more likely to be criminals.

I do, however, think men and women communicate differently and this can sometimes be seen as dishonesty.

Can stealing tens or hundreds of thousands or dollars from one's employer be a result of "communicating differently"?

In most every instance of embezzlement or theft by deception that hits the news, the perp is a woman in a trusted position with their employer. And in no case that I am aware of is the perpetrator ever likely to be able to pay back the money that they stole. If you have stolen 1/4 $Million from your employer, and have a criminal record because you were caught, how are you ever going to get another job that will allow you to make restitution? It's one thing if you bought stuff that can be confiscated, but an employee in a nearby town stole about that much and spent it on trips, cruises, junkets, and on nursing-home care for her mother. None of that can be recovered, and it will never be repaid.

 

[SamirS]

The only thing I know from experience with every single woman I was ever together with (relationship or friends) that most of them are not dishonest, but rather indirect.

You know, they say "do you feel the draft here?" instead of "go close the window". My response is, though I understand very well what that means, to ignore it until she says what she wants; "No, it's fine."

Maybe those crimes are just based on opportunity, maybe people are less inclined to picture a woman as criminal, which again opens opportunities. People let their guard down easier towards a woman than towards a man.

Maybe some statistics would be nice.

 

[JaredJames]

Well in my experience I've seen loads of women nice to each other face to face, but you turn the corner and they attack every little thing about the other person. Completely two faced. Seems rather common around my neck of the woods.

Men on the other hand, seem to be a lot more open and just 'tell it like it is'.

I'm not saying that's always the case, it just appears that it's generally women who are more likely to [female dog*] and moan about other people when they aren't around and then be dishonestly nice to them.

So far as crime goes, would it not be easier to just look up crime stats? Women vs men will give you the exact answer you want. That or it just proves one sex is less likely to be caught.

* Blooming PF anti-swear filter.

 

[Pengwuino]

Well in my experience I've seen loads of women nice to each other face to face, but you turn the corner and they attack every little thing about the other person. Completely two faced. Seems rather common around my neck of the woods.

Men on the other hand, seem to be a lot more open and just 'tell it like it is'.

I'm not saying that's always the case, it just appears that it's generally women who are more likely to [female dog*] and moan about other people when they aren't around and then be dishonestly nice to them.

GOD THIS IS SO TRUE!

AND ALL YOU WOMEN KNOW IT!

I have some girls who confide in me and it almost disgusts me how much crap they talk about their other friends behind their back. The most irritating part is that it's always about their "best friend"! I have one friend who would go out to bars with her best friend and call me later saying she hated how her best friend would get all the guys and hates how she does this and that and thinks she doesn't care about her feelings and always wants to look better than her BLAH BLAH BLAH.

What's with these people? I demand a psychologist figure out why this nonsense seems so common.

 

[JaredJames]

GOD THIS IS SO TRUE!

AND ALL YOU WOMEN KNOW IT!

I tried to approach it subtly, but heck, let's face it we all know it's true!

What's with these people? I demand a psychologist figure out why this nonsense seems so common.

 

[Chi Meson]

Those women who make the news for embezzling thousands from town funds and small businesses are just a diversion from those men who walk away with tens of millions after "streamlining" their corporations into oblivion.

EDIT:
"oblivion" can be another word for "China"

Oh, here' a trick I learned from the political forum:

"IMO"

 

[hypatia]

I don't know Turbo, I think greed is genderless.

 

[HeLiXe]

I don't know Turbo, I think greed is genderless.

Yeah I have to agree there I have seen some pretty extreme fraud from both men and women.

 

[Proton Soup]

The only thing I know from experience with every single woman I was ever together with (relationship or friends) that most of them are not dishonest, but rather indirect.

You know, they say "do you feel the draft here?" instead of "go close the window". My response is, though I understand very well what that means, to ignore it until she says what she wants; "No, it's fine."

Maybe those crimes are just based on opportunity, maybe people are less inclined to picture a woman as criminal, which again opens opportunities. People let their guard down easier towards a woman than towards a man.

Maybe some statistics would be nice.

now you're saying women are just lazy. that would certainly affect the types of crimes committed versus men.

 

[rhody]

GOD THIS IS SO TRUE!

AND ALL YOU WOMEN KNOW IT!

I have some girls who confide in me and it almost disgusts me how much crap they talk about their other friends behind their back. The most irritating part is that it's always about their "best friend"! I have one friend who would go out to bars with her best friend and call me later saying she hated how her best friend would get all the guys and hates how she does this and that and thinks she doesn't care about her feelings and always wants to look better than her BLAH BLAH BLAH.

What's with these people? I demand a psychologist figure out why this nonsense seems so common.

Pengy,

I know of one underlying biological difference between the noggins of men versus women, in general, women have a larger corpus collosum, or colossal commissure separating the left and right hemispheres of the brain. In general, there are more neural connections between a woman's left and right hemisphere's than men. As such, there tends to be more cross-talk literally, and figuratively. I may be dope (PF) slapped for saying this but women in general tend to talk more about more things than men do (in a general sense). I can't say whether this tendency to discuss in derogatory terms habits of their "best friend's" as you describe, I don't know where that comes from, but the circuitry for the banter back and forth is certainly there. An example of where this is not the case, I have a few female friend's who seem converse about things more like a guy than the women you mention, they say what they mean, get to their main point quickly and in general are not gossips. I tend to get along better with these women than the ones you mention in your post, for obvious reasons.

Turbo,

What was the triggering event that led to the discovery that someone other than your brother was signing the checks ? I can't imagine in a small company like his it could have gone for for too long anyway. You make a good point about repayment as well, once convicted, how can someone ever get a decent paying job to come close to repaying what they took in the first place.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Turbo,

What was the triggering event that led to the discovery that someone other than your brother was signing the checks ? I can't imagine in a small company like his it could have gone for for too long anyway. You make a good point about repayment as well, once convicted, how can someone ever get a decent paying job to come close to repaying what they took in the first place.

Rhody...

I think it was the absence of invoices relevant to the bogus purchase orders and checks, but I'm unsure of the fine details. My brother has been really stressed out about this for weeks, until he and his boss found out who was behind the embezzlement. The office crew is small, so the number of people with access and opportunity is limited.

 

[rhody]

I think it was the absence of invoices relevant to the bogus purchase orders and checks, but I'm unsure of the fine details. My brother has been really stressed out about this for weeks, until he and his boss found out who was behind the embezzlement. The office crew is small, so the number of people with access and opportunity is limited.

Turbo,

Makes sense, you write a check for A and expect to find A somewhere in the facility, don't, then it's onto B, C, D, etc... and pretty soon you figure out the money is disappearing into a rat hole somewhere (the embezzler). For what it is worth a long time ago, my wife had the same situation at work, smaller scale, but same deal, it took about 4 - 6 months but the person was fingered and he left the University voluntarily, heard he was working in Florida, got away with it too, probably doing the same thing there. In a little company it can be a big problem, in a big company, university, not so much because the bottom line is not affected.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

Turbo,

Makes sense, you write a check for A and expect to find A somewhere in the facility, don't, then it's onto B, C, D, etc... and pretty soon you figure out the money is disappearing into a rat hole somewhere (the embezzler). For what it is worth a long time ago, my wife had the same situation at work, smaller scale, but same deal, it took about 4 - 6 months but the person was fingered and he left the University voluntarily, heard he was working in Florida, got away with it too, probably doing the same thing there. In a little company it can be a big problem, in a big company, university, not so much because the bottom line is not affected.

Rhody...

The company is small, but has some big-time clients and some serious cash-flow that is quite changeable, depending on what they are making and selling at any time. They make components for automobile manufacturers and other biggies, and also make stuff for esoteric customers, like companies that build and install hockey-rinks (white refrigerant-tubing that practically disappears when encased in ice). It is easier to hide embezzlement under such circumstances, and the perp thought she could get away with it, apparently, by stealing at a moderate pace ($5K or a little more/ month).

 

[Rayquesto]

There's a huge city of lies that women like to turn to for protection. In fact, the city of lies is so big, It's easy to hide in. Once we start looking for the truth, It's easy for us guys to lose our interests in looking. It's not until like sudden moments that we accidently find something and we just get ****ing furious. that city of lies is brutal! I hate it!

 

[Geezer]

I don't think they are more dishonest or more likely to be criminals.

Agreed.

 

[turbo]

I don't think that there is a gender-based difference (no reason to think that, anyway), but every month or so, there is a front-page story about someone who has stolen money from business or a municipal entity, and every single time (seemingly), the perp is a woman. Some creep robs a bank and gets a couple thousand bucks, gets caught, and spends years in the state prison, and some "trusted" employee steals 100x that much and gets probation and restitution. It just doesn't seem right.

 

[Chi Meson]

I don't think that there is a gender-based difference (no reason to think that, anyway), but every month or so, there is a front-page story about someone who has stolen money from business or a municipal entity, and every single time (seemingly), the perp is a woman. Some creep robs a bank and gets a couple thousand bucks, gets caught, and spends years in the state prison, and some "trusted" employee steals 100x that much and gets probation and restitution. It just doesn't seem right.

In my hometown of Ledyard, CT, adjacent to the Foxwoods casino, the town clerk got into a little gambling tail-spin. Over a few years she spent a few hundred-k of the town's money chasing her debts. After her termination and relatively light sentencing, she sued the town to get her "rightful" pension. 2000 libertarians were created the day that news broke.

 

[KingNothing]

Can stealing tens or hundreds of thousands or dollars from one's employer be a result of "communicating differently"?

No, but many other things are. Such as the "two-faced-ness" referenced elsewhere in this thread.

 

[drizzle]

 

[drizzle]

I'm putting one huge fish in the freezer just for you, Pengy bird!

 

[rhody]

Yes, women are horrible

I'm putting one huge fish in the freezer just for you, Pengy bird!

Is this what that huge fish is for Drizzle ? Surely, Mr Feynman, er (Mr Penguino), you must be joking, eh ??

Rhody...

 

[drizzle]

No Rhody, it's because he's a bird.