When will the US officially adopt the metric system?

[SW VandeCarr]

Officially, the US adopted metric units as the legal standard in 1866, but never seriously attempted to implement a plan to phase out "customary" units. As a result, the US is the only industrialized nation which still uses non-metric units widely in commerce and law.

www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/1136a.pdf

A while back a British member posted opinions about this and was met with a tongue-in-cheek defense of inches (2.54 cm), ounces and pints. I joined in, pointing out that if we used a base 2 rather than base 10, one mile is close to [itex]2^{16}[/itex] inches (63360/65536 or 0.966796875 mile). There have been a number of initiatives to "go metric" in the past which have gone nowhere.

Can the the US continue to use non-metric units indefinitely as long as it can manufacture to metric specifications (for export purposes) and use metric units in scientific and at least some engineering applications?

 

[jedishrfu]

Look how much pain was inflicted when we switched daylight saving time recently. Older devices which had the switch down cold failed.

Imagine the confusion of removing non-metric completely. While its true many things you buy today have dual units of measure, there's always that favorite poem, song, recipe or old set of plans or even collection of nuts and bolts that someone has and its not in metric.

I think the only way is that the old units will simply fade away after time, maybe by removing them from items sold and then removing non-metric tools...

 

[zoobyshoe]

A casual glance at history suggests that changes in units of measure are not fully adopted except under heavy handed dictatorships.

I've recently seen a few authors drifting back to B.C. and A.D. which is good since the PC pressure for correction was based on a genetic logical fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy

 

[turbo]

I do a lot of my own mechanic-work/repairs, so I have to own full sets of standard and metric tools. I don't own a Harley anymore, but there is still a lot of non-metric machinery around here. It would be expensive to do a "hard" conversion, IMO, so there is resistance to a wholesale change.

Just changing the speed-limit signs, road signs (XXmiles to xyz), etc, would cost a lot of money that our state can ill-afford to spend. I'm not anti-metric by any means, but it's a good idea to weigh the costs of a hard conversion. A good friend of mine does mechanic work on our vehicles that I am not skilled enough to do, or that requires heavy air-tools, a lift, etc. He has to have full sets of metric and standard tools, from teeny-tiny point wrenches to huge sockets and everything in between. He has a small one-man, one-bay garage, and it must have pinched his finances to buy full sets of every wrench you can imagine.

 

[leroyjenkens]

We should be slowly moving toward metric, but it seems like we're moving away from it. I used to see speed limit signs here in the US that had kilometers per hour under the miles per hour. I don't see those anymore.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Look how much pain was inflicted when we switched daylight saving time recently. Older devices which had the switch down cold failed.

Imagine the confusion of removing non-metric completely. While its true many things you buy today have dual units of measure, there's always that favorite poem, song, recipe or old set of plans or even collection of nuts and bolts that someone has and its not in metric.

I think the only way is that the old units will simply fade away after time, maybe by removing them from items sold and then removing non-metric tools...

Agreed there has been some progress since 1975 when Congress passed a metrification act, but made it voluntary. Other countries have made the conversion in the last 50 years or so including Canada, Mexico and the UK. Right now, the US is in year 37 of the supposed conversion effort, and except for putting metric units (in addition to the non metric units) on canned and packaged items in stores, I don't see much progress. Liters have replaced quarts on soft drinks and other beverages (because they are often exported or imported) and cubic inches for displacible cylinder volume in internal combustion engines, probably for the same reason. But that's not much to show for 37 years.

 

[Feodalherren]

Good question. The imperial system sucks. I just recently moved here and I can already say that I'll never get used to the imperial system.

And while we're at it. Stop calling digital time "military time".

I do a lot of my own mechanic-work/repairs, so I have to own full sets of standard and metric tools. I don't own a Harley anymore, but there is still a lot of non-metric machinery around here. It would be expensive to do a "hard" conversion, IMO, so there is resistance to a wholesale change.

Just changing the speed-limit signs, road signs (XXmiles to xyz), etc, would cost a lot of money that our state can ill-afford to spend. I'm not anti-metric by any means, but it's a good idea to weigh the costs of a hard conversion. A good friend of mine does mechanic work on our vehicles that I am not skilled enough to do, or that requires heavy air-tools, a lift, etc. He has to have full sets of metric and standard tools, from teeny-tiny point wrenches to huge sockets and everything in between. He has a small one-man, one-bay garage, and it must have pinched his finances to buy full sets of every wrench you can imagine.

That's why it should be phased out. Start with adding km to any new road signs, any road signs that are replaced etc. In a 100 or so years it would be fully metric.

 

[AlephZero]

A casual glance at history suggests that changes in units of measure are not fully adopted except under heavy handed dictatorships.

Well, I guess I must be living in a heavy handed dictatorship in the UK. In my lifetime pretty much everything has moved from "imperial" to metric units. There's nothing much left in imperial except road signs and speed limits, using miles not km. Oh, and pints of beer. But that's about it.

We even managed to change the currency from pounds shillings and pence to decimal without having a revolution.

There is clearly a large one-off cost to convert the road signage, and room for confusion beteen old 50 mph speed limits and 30 mph limits converted to 50 kph if it was done in stages, but I assume it will happen eventually.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Well, I guess I must be living in a heavy handed dictatorship in the UK. In my lifetime pretty much everything has moved from "imperial" to metric units. There's nothing much left in imperial except road signs and speed limits, using miles not km. Oh, and pints of beer. But that's about it.

We even managed to change the currency from pounds shillings and pence to decimal without having a revolution.

There is clearly a large one-off cost to convert the road signage, and room for confusion beteen old 50 mph speed limits and 30 mph limits converted to 50 kph if it was done in stages, but I assume it will happen eventually.

Well, you're right, "heavy handed dictatorship" is hyperbole. I should have said people don't change measuring systems unless the government enforces the change.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

I sure hope so. But then someone has to invent the 19.05mm socket, less we go unable to repair older automobiles.

 

[rootX]

It likely will never happen. Even Canada uses a lots of non-metric stuff (civil).

 

[lisab]

I'd like to think that we're making progress. After all, every chemistry, physics, biology, and engineering student for the last 30 years is completely comfortable with metric. I'm confident in saying that most prefer it.

But a total change over...that will be a while.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

There is clearly a large one-off cost to convert the road signage, and room for confusion beteen old 50 mph speed limits and 30 mph limits converted to 50 kph if it was done in stages, but I assume it will happen eventually.

It likely will never happen. Even Canada uses a lots of non-metric stuff (civil).

It's interesting that Canada did replace its road signs but has still not made a comprehensive conversion. My experience as a visitor was that it was fairly comprehensive. I remember buying deli items by the 100mg (hectogram?). It would seem highway speed limits would be the most dangerous to convert. I've driven the 401 between the US border and Toronto a number of times and there were sections where the drivers (both Canadian and US plates) seem to think 100 meant 100 mph.

 

[rootX]

It's interesting that Canada did replace its road signs but has still not made a comprehensive conversion. My experience as a visitor was that it was fairly comprehensive. I remember buying deli items by the 100mg (hectogram?). It would seem highway speed limits would be the most dangerous to convert. I've driven the 401 between the US border and Toronto a number of times and there were sections where the drivers (both Canadian and US plates) seem to think 100 meant 100 mph.

I was referring to engineering services. I am working in a government utility corporation. It is heavily non-metric. But yes, road signs and speeds are in metric.

 

[tiny-tim]

Well, I guess I must be living in a heavy handed dictatorship in the UK. In my lifetime pretty much everything has moved from "imperial" to metric units. There's nothing much left in imperial except road signs and speed limits, using miles not km. Oh, and pints of beer. But that's about it.

but a lot of food in the uk is still sold in jars or cans of 454 grams …

which just happens to be a pound! ​

so we're all set to return to imperial … just as soon as the usa rejoins the empire, and starts driving on the left!

 

[SW VandeCarr]

but a lot of food in the uk is still sold in jars or cans of 454 grams …

which just happens to be a pound! ​

so we're all set to return to imperial … just as soon as the usa rejoins the empire, and starts driving on the left!

It will be many fortnights before that happens.

 

[gmax137]

I still have machines with whitworth fasteners. So I have 3 sets of tools. Wrenches, taps, dies, etc. the BSW / BSF stuff is hard to come by in the US now. The bolts and nuts have to be made by hand or purchased at astounding prices. Can't get those at the local TrueValue hardware store!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Can the the US continue to use non-metric units indefinitely as long as it can manufacture to metric specifications (for export purposes) and use metric units in scientific and at least some engineering applications?

Yes, for everything except missions to Mars.

There are so many units of measure that are unique to a particular field that metric vs standard is only a small part of the picture. For example, frequency can mean per second, per minute, or even per hour or year, depending on the subject. If you don't know the subject, you may not know which frequency they mean. At least with general measures of length or distance, mass or weight, temp, torque, force, speed... the units of measure are generally specified, and usually for both standard and metric. I have to jump back and forth constantly and hardly even notice anymore.

 

[Curious3141]

We should be slowly moving toward metric, but it seems like we're moving away from it. I used to see speed limit signs here in the US that had kilometers per hour under the miles per hour. I don't see those anymore.

When I drove a rental car in the US, I was thankful I was able to mentally multiply by 1.6 and 5/8 fairly quickly.

 

[Pkruse]

I'm a mechanical design engineer. I've worked for many companies, designing everything from wood chippers to jet engines. In all cases the default has been to design in inches unless the customer wanted metric. About 20% want metric, but most of those really want the design in inches, but show all the inches converted to mm on the drawing. Only our European customers want full metric. All the US government work is required to be in metric, but the first thing that happens in any new government program is that the civil servants get a waiver to design in inches.

Inches are a whole lot cheaper in the US because everything is designed around them, and the workforce is conditioned to think and work in them--the automotive industry not withstanding, since they seem to have done well with metric.

So I'd say that inches are here to stay.

I'm equally comfortable with both systems, and don't really care which system someone wants to use. They are both equally good. If anyone has a preference for one over the other then that just indicates that person understands one better than the other.

 

[skeptic2]

Officially, the US adopted metric units as the legal standard in 1866, but never seriously attempted to implement a plan to phase out "customary" units. As a result, the US is the only industrialized nation which still uses non-metric units widely in commerce and law.

In fact, since the English system has always been used, there has never been a reason to pass a law recognizing it as a legal system of measurement as was done with the metric system.

I used to work in a manufacturing plant in Mexico. Most of our incoming material came from China but the design was all done in Chicago in English units. We encountered numerous errors because suppliers in China and also Mexican workers didn't always understand our specs. When I suggested to the chief engineer that we should add metric dimensions to our drawings he replied that since our cartons used English measurements, everything should be English. (?)

At my current company all the engineers received a company directive that measurements in all published materials for domestic consumption must be in English units. I responded that I refuse to specify transmitter output in horsepower. I have been tempted to use more obscure English units such as the line, digit, finger, nail, palm, shaftment, link, span or ell.

Fortunately the FCC uses metric measurements for everything including tower heights. Oddly the FAA uses English units for tower heights so we still have to convert.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Fortunately the FCC uses metric measurements for everything including tower heights. Oddly the FAA uses English units for tower heights so we still have to convert.

I think the real problem is having two sets of units. (Note I'm talking about units of measurement, not a "metric system" such as SI). In the OP, I asked if the US could get away with not converting to metric. With the kind of confusion you describe, I'm fairly sure that trying to deal with two systems is not sustainable if the US wants to remain a leading economic power. To the extent metric units are used in the US, such as the liter for Coke and Pepsi, it's because these companies have decided that it's too inefficient to work in two sets of units. These companies have huge overseas markets and they chose to market their products by the liter worldwide, including the US. The auto industry has done the same thing, and any industrial products that are exported are made to just metric specifications afiak. The conversion, such as it is, seems to be driven by industry, not government.

Companies with largely domestic markets can be expected to resist conversion because it's expensive and customers may object. In real estate, English units are deeply embedded. I've never heard anyone use the word "hectare" in the US for land measure. Yet few Americans can tell you exactly what an acre is. It's 43,560 square feet. Now why doesn't everyone know that?

BTW, this number has an ugly square root: 208.7103256 ft., so square acres are not very convenient.

 

[Feodalherren]

I'm equally comfortable with both systems, and don't really care which system someone wants to use. They are both equally good. If anyone has a preference for one over the other then that just indicates that person understands one better than the other.

Not really... There's nothing to understand, it's just about having to deal with fractions vs moving the decimal point. Metric is superior in every way.

 

[tiny-tim]

Metric is superior in every way.

even for eggs?

 

[dydxforsn]

Let's measure every quantity in meters and use the fine structure constant.

<.<

 

[rduarte]

even for eggs?

Especially for eggs. :)

 

[skeptic2]

I was wondering if metric countries fail to distinguish between mass and weight as much as the U.S does. I asked my brother in law who used to teach science at a middle school level in Mexico how they compare the weight of an astronaut on Earth and on the moon. in kg or in Newtons. He answered that the weight comparison is done in kg, he didn't even know what Newtons are.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Well, I guess I must be living in a heavy handed dictatorship in the UK. In my lifetime pretty much everything has moved from "imperial" to metric units. There's nothing much left in imperial except road signs and speed limits, using miles not km. Oh, and pints of beer. But that's about it.

It's interesting to note how strange the UK is in this regard, it's like we're stuck in transition. For example it wouldn't raise any eyebrows for me to say "Ben is four metres away from me and six foot tall. He weighs thirteen stone but he's about to eat a kilo of sugar. In one hand he has a pint of beer and the other a three litre can of petrol. In his spare time he trains as a one hundred metre sprinter at the track five miles down the road. But enough about Ben I'm about to buy a fourteen ounze steak containing twenty of my thirty daily grams of fat."

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Especially for eggs. :)

You mean like a metric dozen?

It's interesting to note how strange the UK is in this regard, it's like we're stuck in transition. For example it wouldn't raise any eyebrows for me to say "Ben is four metres away from me and six foot tall. He weighs thirteen stone but he's about to eat a kilo of sugar. In one hand he has a pint of beer and the other a three litre can of petrol. In his spare time he trains as a one hundred metre sprinter at the track five miles down the road. But enough about Ben I'm about to buy a fourteen ounze steak containing twenty of my thirty daily grams of fat."

I'm curious as to whether the UK still uses acres for land measure. Ads for UK real estate give interior areas in square meters, but I'm guessing you're still using acres if you're still using miles.

 

[Containment]

Real reason is nobody wants to live through the nightmare of trying to retrain the parents of the kids who grow up using metric. You thought getting grandma to email was hard? Just you wait till she has to learn metric omg.

 

[jcsd]

You mean like a metric dozen?



I'm curious as to whether the UK still uses acres for land measure. Ads for UK real estate give interior areas in square meters, but I'm guessing you're still using acres if you're still using miles.

I think most land is sold by the acre, though sometimes the size is quoted in hectares.

 

[tiny-tim]

I'm curious as to whether the UK still uses acres for land measure.

yup!

see for example the royal institute of chartered surveyors report "rural market survey" at http://www.rics.org/ruralmarketsurvey

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Do you expect me to mow the grass on my meter? Or drink my coffee from a quarter-liter?

 

[Monique]

Real reason is nobody wants to live through the nightmare of trying to retrain the parents of the kids who grow up using metric. You thought getting grandma to email was hard? Just you wait till she has to learn metric omg.

Grandma will be just fine. Since 10 years ago 23 countries have changed their currency to the Euro, people adjusted to the new money and change in value just fine.

If the system changed to metric and instead of a gallon of water they would be getting 4 liters, do you really think it would take long for people to realize the quantity they'd get for a certain value?

 

[SW VandeCarr]

It's interesting that the word "mile" comes from the Latin "mille" for one thousand. A Roman mile was 1000 full paces (about 5 feet). So the metric idea is actually ancient. The problem arose when William the Conqueror introduced his French foot to England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile

After a lot of confusion over several centuries, England, by Royal order, settled on a mile of 5280 (French) feet. The acre was redefined in terms of this mile with one square mile being exactly 640 acres. This subdivides nicely into successive quarters of 160, 40 and 10 acres. The last step is a rectangular subdivision of ten acres into one acre strips (for plowing) of 660 by 66 feet, or 1/8 by 1/80 of a mile. So the acre makes some sense in terms of English units. Much of the US is surveyed according to square mile sections subdivided this way. I think it will be virtually impossible to superimpose a metric configuration on this huge area at this point in time. So the 43,560 square foot acre is probably here to stay.