What are you supposed to do in these situations?

[27Thousand]

By learning from the past one can be better in the future. So I'm curious if by any chance anyone has any advice on what to do in these situations?

1. Earlier at a place I worked there was a woman who would often smile and give me girly waves. One time she was doing something with her teeth. Although I had no intention of flirting, I said, "You shouldn't do that, it could hurt your teeth." Then all of a sudden she smiled, leaned forward and said, "So... Why are you interested in my teeth! " with a big grin. I didn't do anything because I thought it might have been possible she was flirting but you never know. So that I can learn from past experiences, what are you supposed to do in a situation like this? If I were to say, "Well, when I said that I wasn't trying to imply anything, but when I think about it you do look like you would be fun to kiss," I could be wrong but that probably would be very awkward. If I say, "Well, you know you don't want to hurt your teeth," if she was actually trying to flirt then would that have been any better at giving something back than how I reacted in this situation by not responding back at all? I have a blank mind on how to deal with situations like these, just like when you go to the park and see birds moving around and you have no clue what they're doing. However, maybe knowing what others would have done in this situation may help me come up with my own ideas.

2. Another experience I've been curious about, earlier in college there was a woman in one of my classes who would always smile and sit next to me in class. Then each day after class she would walk with me and talk until she got to the building which had her next class. It didn't matter where I'd sit, she would always sit next to me and then walk and talk after class. I'd try experimenting by sitting in different places. At the same time, there was this one guy in class who'd act very friendly toward her. One day she walked in class, paused, looked at him, then me, then him, then me, smiled, and came over and sat next to me, even if she sat next to me each day we had this class anyway. So after two months of this, I decided to ask her on date. This is how I asked her, "My roommates are going snow shoeing Saturday. Would you like to come with me?" (someone else told me that's how people ask others on dates and that you're supposed to speak clearly when you say the "like to come with me" part because it's awkward if a woman thinks it's a group activity but then finds out when she gets there it's a date instead; but I don't really know how you're supposed to ask) When I asked her that, she told me that she would have to see because she thought she was doing something with her roommates and would let me know the next day we had class. Then that next class time she didn't sit next to me, although she always did in the past. After class she got up and walked out of class quickly. It took some effort to catch up, and she said she found out that she wasn't doing something with her roommates that day, but rather had a meeting for some committee she was in. Then she seemed very hesitant and awkward and said, "I'm ... dating this guy." It was weird because each class after that incident until the end of the semester she would still keep on sitting next to me no matter where I sat and would talk to me. I also felt awkward each day in class, because of that one time when I asked her on that date.

 

[27Thousand]

So if a woman you are attracted to smiles and leans forward, "So why are you interested in my teeth?" what would you do in a situation like that? What would other men do?

 

[rootX]

So if a woman you are attracted to smiles and leans forward, "So why are you interested in my teeth?" what would you do in a situation like that? What would other men do?

Personally taking into account my current life, I would ignore it and keep on moving with my life ...

 

[Moonbear]

So if a woman you are attracted to smiles and leans forward, "So why are you interested in my teeth?" what would you do in a situation like that? What would other men do?

You didn't indicate in the OP you were attracted to them. In fact, you said you had "no intention of flirting," which I took to mean you were NOT attracted. If you're attracted, who cares if they were trying to flirt or not? Just ask and find out. If they weren't interested back, then move on. If they were, you'd have your answer and could proceed. It's really NOT that complicated.

 

[27Thousand]

You didn't indicate in the OP you were attracted to them. In fact, you said you had "no intention of flirting," which I took to mean you were NOT attracted. If you're attracted, who cares if they were trying to flirt or not? Just ask and find out. If they weren't interested back, then move on. If they were, you'd have your answer and could proceed. It's really NOT that complicated.

I was quite attracted to both of them! What I was saying was with the first one when I said, "You shouldn't do that, you could hurt your teeth," I wasn't intentionally trying to hit on her at the time. However she may have took it that way when she all of a sudden smiled, leaned forward and said, "So... Why are you interested in my teeth!" with a big grin. I don't know how to act in situations like these. In the second scenario if I tried asking the woman out then obviously I'm attracted. Since there's a pattern of this happening over again, then it may be possible that learning how to deal with situations like these two may help for the future.

Since this is the relationships forum and I obviously have some problems reading women and knowing how to react, I'd thought perhaps someone may have advice, or perhaps a sample scenario of how some may react/do things differently. Since people like Cyrus take it for granted that they have excellent social skills, they just laugh instead. I could be wrong, but perhaps other PF'ers who visit the "Relationships" forum could benefit from knowing how to deal with situations like this.

If you're attracted, who cares if they were trying to flirt or not? Just ask and find out.

In the first one as far as asking to find out, if I would have said, "Why are you smiling and leaning forward?" couldn't that be awkward to ask questions like that? I'm just trying to figure out how people usually react in situations like these?

 

[27Thousand]

Are we back to analysing body language in charts and graphs again so that a date can be landed?

That's a really gross emoticon, by the way, guys.

No, not a mathematical models/graphs/scientific method thread, but rather a legitimate question to see how people usually react/act in situations like these. Since it's a reoccuring pattern, perhaps other PF'ers who visit a "Relationships" forum may have or gain insight from this.

 

[27Thousand]

Personally taking into account my current life, I would ignore it and keep on moving with my life ...

No really, this is a legitimate question. Hasn't there ever been a time in your life when you were attracted to someone and you didn't know how to react/act? Well just because you two have excellent social skills and take it for granted doesn't mean others on PF won't benefit from any insights on this thread.

 

[DaveC426913]

By learning from the past one can be better in the future. So I'm curious if by any chance anyone has any advice on what to do in these situations?

1. Earlier at a place I worked there was a woman who would often smile and give me girly waves. One time she was doing something with her teeth. Although I had no intention of flirting, I said, "You shouldn't do that, it could hurt your teeth." Then all of a sudden she smiled, leaned forward and said, "So... Why are you interested in my teeth! " with a big grin. I didn't do anything because I thought it might have been possible she was flirting but you never know. So that I can learn from past experiences, what are you supposed to do in a situation like this?

I might come back with: "It's hard not to look at you." and smile. If I were a complete fool, I'd mutter something about a "bee to a flower".

It's a good balance between the risk of being too forward and doing nothing at all.

It allows her to make the next step closer - or farther. Flirting is a dance.

 

[rootX]

No really, this is a legitimate question. Hasn't there ever been a time in your life when you were attracted to someone and you didn't know how to react/act? Well just because you two have excellent social skills and take it for granted doesn't mean others on PF won't benefit from any insights on this thread.

I don't know how you reached that conclusion. I don't have sufficient skills to engage in any kind of intimate relationship - neither time - hence I was honest in my answer that I would not indulge myself thinking about that. If you are interested in finding the answers more than anything else go out play sports/clubs/... Either stop thinking about that and do what is of more priority or take some actions.

 

[27Thousand]

I don't know how you reached that conclusion. I don't have sufficient skills to engage in any kind of intimate relationship - neither time - hence I was honest in my answer that I would not indulge myself thinking about that. If you are interested in finding the answers more than anything else go out play sports/clubs/... Either stop thinking about that and do what is of more priority or take some actions.

The only reason I thought you took it for granted was Cyrus and you seemed to be making fun of me for asking a question like this (before those other posts were taken out). I'm sorry if I misread you.

If situations like this with women aren't just a one time incident, then learning from mistakes may be useful in knowing how to react/act in the future. If I move on, then when it happens again (which there's a pattern here) wouldn't it just be better if I learn what men usually do in situations like these two?

 

[anubis01]

Its not like you can apply a set standard of rules because each situation and circumstance is unique. In my opinion you did the right thing in case number 2, you saw someone you liked and you took a chance, sure it didn't work out but at least you tried.

Its not easy to face rejection, but if you don't you will never know success in your relationships.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Have you ever had a girlfriend, 27Thousand? If so, did she flirt with you before you started dating?

 

[rootX]

The only reason I thought you took it for granted was Cyrus and you seemed to be making fun of me for asking a question like this (before those other posts were taken out). I'm sorry if I misread you.

If situations like this with women aren't just a one time incident, then learning from mistakes may be useful in knowing how to react/act in the future. If I move on, then when it happens again (which there's a pattern here) wouldn't it just be better if I learn what men usually do in situations like these two?

This is second/third time you brought that same story again. Continuously ignoring the advices of other people?

 

[27Thousand]

Its not like you can apply a set standard of rules because each situation and circumstance is unique. In my opinion you did the right thing in case number 2, you saw someone you liked and you took a chance, sure it didn't work out but at least you tried.

Its not easy to face rejection, but if you don't you will never know success in your relationships.

I agree it'll depend on the situation and you need to take risks. Where I'm coming from is if I know how normal people would have reacted in the first and would have gone about reading the other person in the second situation, maybe it'll give me some insights the next time something happens.

Hmm, so the second situation you thought was okay what I did? So how about in the first situation? How do women prefer men to respond?

Concerning the second situation, I asked on Yahoo!Answers and some girl said I could have tried lightly flirting with her to read how she reacts (kind of like Dave said with flirting being a dance). The girl on Yahoo!Answers said one possibility is to lightly touch her on the arm when joking around with her or when trying to get her attention. If she seems uncomfortable, then the answer is probably no. If she smiles, laughs, or something flirty, then it means it's more likely that she's interested (even if not a given it can give more or less confidence).

 

[27Thousand]

Have you ever had a girlfriend, 27Thousand? If so, did she flirt with you before you started dating?

No I haven't had a girlfriend, which is why I'm asking questions in the Relationships forum. I understand part of relationships is being real so having an algorithm saying "this and this will guarantee a date" will cause problems for that. However knowing if she'd be receptive or possibilities for how a guy can respond to how women act won't make it any less sincere.

I mean, if she's interested and I'm interested and I do something to find out if she's receptive, that wouldn't cause any harm would it? Knowing how many other men act in those situations wouldn't either?

 

[27Thousand]

This is second/third time you brought that same story again. Continuously ignoring the advices of other people?

What part of what you're saying am I not picking up on or do you think I'm ignoring?

In that other thread I wasn't aware that someone gave specific suggestions for what men do in those two situations, but rather they were discussing the practicality of mathematical models instead (which I'm not going to bring up math in this thread). This thread is curious about situations, not math.

 

[dotman]

if I know how normal people would have reacted in the first

Do you think you are not normal? Why?

As for the rest, well, snow-shoeing is not exactly a sure-fire way to get a girl to go out with you. I mean, honestly, if a girl asked me to go snow-shoeing, well, she'd have to be pretty friggin' hot to get me to agree.

 

[27Thousand]

Do you think you are not normal? Why?

As for the rest, well, snow-shoeing is not exactly a sure-fire way to get a girl to go out with you. I mean, honestly, if a girl asked me to go snow-shoeing, well, she'd have to be pretty friggin' hot to get me to agree.

This is why I don't think I'm normal https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2306921#post2306921". Although it doesn't diagnose you nor say if you have it, it has been tested to do a good job of saying "how much you have the traits associated with it", using a control and experimental group. So even if it doesn't mean anything at all, I still have social issues. Ask Dave about it. Also ask Evo she closed down another thread I had saying I should go get help.

I didn't go on my first date until age 22, and have only been on a few group dates, no one on one dates. I think it has more to do with reading people and knowing how to react, rather than what people think of me.

So maybe that's why I'm asking PF, since they may help jump start social skills here. Dave was suggesting how flirting is like a dance.

 

[dotman]

Well, you're approaching this the wrong way, is the best advice I can give you. You can't hope to find out what a 'normal' person would do, and then try to 'emulate' that in the future. Flat out won't work. People are unique. You're going to have to find your own unique way to approach these kinds of situations, that works for you.

What do you think you should have done, when the girl grinned at you and said the thing about the teeth?

 

[27Thousand]

Well, you're approaching this the wrong way, is the best advice I can give you. You can't hope to find out what a 'normal' person would do, and then try to 'emulate' that in the future. Flat out won't work. People are unique. You're going to have to find your own unique way to approach these kinds of situations, that works for you.

What do you think you should have done, when the girl grinned at you and said the thing about the teeth?

Something that you possibly may want to consider, some say that they watch how other people do things and see if it works for them. Since I try that and I have a lot of trouble observing and figuring out what's going on in a situation, social instinct/gut feeling, perhaps asking others what they sometimes do in situations like this may help. You know how some people are visual learners, etc, and they learn better with their style? Well whenever I take those tests I'm a logical and verbal learner. So why not learn the way I find most natural?

As far as what I can brainstorm is to say something like, "You look like you'd be fun to kiss," which would probably scare her away. Or something like, "Well ... You know, it's always good for when you go on dates."

Or something like: Me, "Do you have a boyfriend?" Woman asking about teeth, "No." Me, "Excellent! I mean NO! That's terrible!" That would also probably be too strong. You see why I want to find out what may be taken as normal?

 

[anubis01]

I agree it'll depend on the situation and you need to take risks. Where I'm coming from is if I know how normal people would have reacted in the first and would have gone about reading the other person in the second situation, maybe it'll give me some insights the next time something happens.

Hmm, so the second situation you thought was okay what I did? So how about in the first situation? How do women prefer men to respond?

Concerning the second situation, I asked on Yahoo!Answers and some girl said I could have tried lightly flirting with her to read how she reacts (kind of like Dave said with flirting being a dance). The girl on Yahoo!Answers said one possibility is to lightly touch her on the arm when joking around with her or when trying to get her attention. If she seems uncomfortable, then the answer is probably no. If she smiles, laughs, or something flirty, then it means it's more likely that she's interested (even if not a given it can give more or less confidence).

You shouldn't concern yourself with how "normal" people would react to the situation (who decides whose normal anyway) just go with what you feel. For example in that first situation, if you actually had a genuine interest in that girl, indicate it by doing something like smiling, touching her arm etc. Dave gave some pretty good situations on how to flirt.

 

[Cyrus]

Based on your age and posts, I think you should look into professional help via a psychiatrist. This is several standard deviations beyond any help we can give you. (I don't mean this in a nasty sarcastic way.)

 

[MotoH]

NO NO NO. I am sure as heck not the expert on relationships because I am not really interested in anything long term.

The most important rule is:
if she flirts with you, flirt back but don't over do it.

Never initiate the flirting, you can talk with the compliments and all that, but getting to flirtatious is creepy.

Also having a tan, playing sports or doing something awesome (snowboarding gets chicks like no other) and being muscular helps a ton.

I have no clue if this helped at all, but kiss her and bring her home my boy!

 

[zoobyshoe]

27Thousand, I do not think you will ever succeed, but I do not think you should ever give up trying. It's what you want, and I don't think you'll be happy unless you continue experimenting and learning.

I do have a specific piece of information to give you, which is that you don't ever actually need to formally ask a girl out for her to eventually end up as your girlfriend. All my girlfriends resulted from a series of rather informal and casual situations in which there was never any official date.

It is possible to ruin an embryonic relationship by pressuring the girl way too early on to think of your relationship as potentially romantic, which is what happens whenever you officially ask a girl out. I think this may be what happened in your second story. She wasn't at a point to do anything so definite as a date. She was still checking you out to see what you were about.

 

[27Thousand]

27Thousand, I do not think you will ever succeed, but I do not think you should ever give up trying. It's what you want, and I don't think you'll be happy unless you continue experimenting and learning.

I do have a specific piece of information to give you, which is that you don't ever actually need to formally ask a girl out for her to eventually end up as your girlfriend. All my girlfriends resulted from a series of rather informal and casual situations in which there was never any official date.

It is possible to ruin an embryonic relationship by pressuring the girl way too early on to think of your relationship as potentially romantic, which is what happens whenever you officially ask a girl out. I think this may be what happened in your second story. She wasn't at a point to do anything so definite as a date. She was still checking you out to see what you were about.

Thanks zoobyshoe,

So one thing I'm trying to figure out is if I should have treated the second situation differently, how should I have done it? Some say that waiting two months was the problem and that I should have not waited so long because perhaps she got a boyfriend in the meantime. Then that one girl on Yahoo!Answers said that I should test the waters by flirting and see how a woman respond back, for example that touching on the arm thing I mentioned earlier. So I'm just confused.

For example, what are some ideas of what to have done differently?

 

[27Thousand]

You shouldn't concern yourself with how "normal" people would react to the situation (who decides whose normal anyway) just go with what you feel. For example in that first situation, if you actually had a genuine interest in that girl, indicate it by doing something like smiling, touching her arm etc. Dave gave some pretty good situations on how to flirt.

I agree not everyone does everything the same exact and just like in Statistics there's variation.

What I'm wondering about is you mentioned "smiling, touching her arm etc", the girl on Yahoo!Answers mentioned touching on the arm as a way to flirt to see how she responds, and Dave said flirting is like a dance. They all have similarities in the big picture. What if men with normal social skills do things like this without even knowing about it? So I'm very curious about that and it's why I wonder what other men here think they would do if a woman leaned forward like that, smiled, and asked that question.

 

[DaveC426913]

Thanks zoobyshoe,

So one thing I'm trying to figure out is if I should have treated the second situation differently, how should I have done it? Some say that waiting two months was the problem and that I should have not waited so long because perhaps she got a boyfriend in the meantime. Then that one girl on Yahoo!Answers said that I should test the waters by flirting and see how a woman respond back, for example that touching on the arm thing I mentioned earlier. So I'm just confused.

It is definitely a possbility that she was interested and then got bored waiting.
It is also a possibility that she was interested but, since her attentions were netting her nothing, she thought she'd try some hard-to-get.

Either way: You didn't bite. You weren't interested. Or "you snoozed, you losed".

For example, what are some ideas of what to have done differently?

Anything.

The key is to do something. Flirt back. Test the waters. Show interest.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Thanks zoobyshoe,

So one thing I'm trying to figure out is if I should have treated the second situation differently, how should I have done it? Some say that waiting two months was the problem and that I should have not waited so long because perhaps she got a boyfriend in the meantime. Then that one girl on Yahoo!Answers said that I should test the waters by flirting and see how a woman respond back, for example that touching on the arm thing I mentioned earlier. So I'm just confused.

For example, what are some ideas of what to have done differently?

I reread your account #2 and actually, I think you handled it pretty well. Snowshoeing is pretty casual and not like an official date like dinner. In principle, I think that's exactly the kind of thing it's OK to ask a girl to do.

However, I think what happened is that she simply liked you and enjoyed your company as a kind of class buddy, but probably had no romantic interest. The fact she suddenly started to avoid you strongly suggests to me that she sensed the snowshoeing wasn't the casual invitation you hoped it would sound like.

Even people who would not rank high on the autistic spectrum on that test often don't realize how much their real motivations show through to others when they're trying to seem more casual than they actually feel, or otherwise hide their true motivations. I am sure you have sometimes felt that when people were acting a certain way there was something "not right" about it, that they were in a different mood than they claimed to be, or wanted something different than they claimed to want. So, in principle snowshoeing was a casual enough suggestion, but in practice she may have sensed getting together with her was much more important in your mind than was comfortable for her. That's my best guess about what happened given the limitations of the internet.

Anyway, it's good to cultivate a lot of friends who are girls even if these friendships aren't going to turn into romances because when other girls see you hanging around with girls it creates the impression in their minds you are likable and get along well with women: always a plus. These girls who don't know you will later feel it's OK to approach you if the opportunity to talk to you comes up at some point. The more they see you hanging around with girls the more they are going to wonder what it is about you that you seem to be attractive to girls and the more they will want to get to know you. In this way you increase the number of girls you know and also increase your chances of finding one to have a relationship with.

So, what I would have done is just stay friends with this girl and not try to engineer a date with her, so you could meet her friends, her friends friends, and so on, till you hang out with so many girls that even strange girls want to get to know you.

This post is getting long, but I also want to say that hanging out with girls in a purely friendly way is the best path to learning to understand and get used to girls. So, make as many friends who are girls as you possibly can, and take every opportunity to talk to them, watch them talk to each other, and watch them talk to guys, and little by little you will start to sense what various behaviors, and tones of voice, and postures, and turns of speech probably mean. Mostly I suppose, you'll be baffled, but whatever little insights you gain will be steps in the right direction.

 

[MotoH]

Oh. Don't get friend zoned. As soon as she starts to tell you about her problems and you aren't dating, get out of that as soon as possible, especially if you want to date her.

 

[Dembadon]

Oh. Don't get friend zoned. As soon as she starts to tell you about her problems and you aren't dating, get out of that as soon as possible, especially if you want to date her.

Why? Are two people who wish to start a relationship supposed to be completely ignorant of each others' lives? Is one supposed to enter into a relationship with someone of which their understanding is only superficial?

 

[MotoH]

Why? Are two people who wish to start a relationship supposed to be completely ignorant of each others' lives? Is one supposed to enter into a relationship with someone of which their understanding is only superficial?

I'm not sure if you've heard of the friend zone or not, but think of it like a ladder. Once you get on the friend zone side, no matter how high you climb that ladder you will never jump over to the potential relationship side, it doesn't matter if the person she describes as the exact guy she wants describes you perfectly, she will never go for you.

No you shouldn't be completely ignorant of the other persons problems and the like, but you do not want to know everything right away because that is the gateway into friendzone territory.

If I am interested in dating a girl, I do not want to hear about all of her problems before I even date her, it takes all the excitement and mystery out of dating. Once you know most everything about another person, why even date? There's nothing to find out besides how they look naked, and maybe if they want a pet fish in the future or not, but as soon as everything comes out of the closet the spark is gone and you will just be a friend.

Do husbands share all of their secrets with their wives? I sure hope not
Do wives shair all of their secrets with their husbands? They never have and they never will.

And that is what keeps a relationship moving on. The mystery and excitement of finding out something new.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Oh. Don't get friend zoned. As soon as she starts to tell you about her problems and you aren't dating, get out of that as soon as possible, especially if you want to date her.

Getting friend zoned is exactly what 27Thousand needs at this point. If you have been following his many threads it's clear, and he knows it, that he has great difficulty following the most basic of social signals. He needs to put the goal of a girlfriend on hold for a while and concentrate on simply learning to understand what's going on around him. Any girl who friend zones him is going to represent a wealth of direct experience for him about how girls think, talk, and interact with guys.

 

[DaveC426913]

Getting friend zoned is exactly what 27Thousand needs at this point. If you have been following his many threads it's clear, and he knows it, that he has great difficulty following the most basic of social signals. He needs to put the goal of a girlfriend on hold for a while and concentrate on simply learning to understand what's going on around him. Any girl who friend zones him is going to represent a wealth of direct experience for him about how girls think, talk, and interact with guys.

That is an excellent, excellent point. This is probably the best thing 27K can do right now.

 

[MotoH]

If 27k isn't a fragile soul, friendzoning is fine (now that I've read the whole thread) But, it could end up bad in the end. What if he trys to ask her out after being friend zoned? It destroys beginners confidence to get shot down, and what if he never tries again?

 

[zoobyshoe]

If 27k isn't a fragile soul, friendzoning is fine (now that I've read the whole thread) But, it could end up bad in the end. What if he trys to ask her out after being friend zoned? It destroys beginners confidence to get shot down, and what if he never tries again?

It's good you read the whole thread, but you really need to be aware of his many other threads in which he was trying to enlist everyone's help in developing a mathematical formula for determining whether or not a girl was flirting. He was not able to understand why that is an unworkable strategy. I suggested to him that he must have high functioning autism, or perhaps Asperger's syndrome, and he checked it out by taking an informal online test on which he scored high on the autistic spectrum. So, between that test and his remarks here it's clear he operates as if he were autistic, whether or not he'd actually get that diagnosis in practice.

People offering him advice have not fully appreciated the deficit under which he's operating, and are throwing out advanced level solutions to someone who is struggling with basics, trying to make a gymnast out of someone who clearly can't even always keep his balance when walking, so to speak.

Getting friend zoned by one girl only puts you at a romantic disadvantage with that girl. I know from personal experience that what you learn about girls from being in the friend zone can be used later to #1 Prevent a girl you're actually interested in from putting you in the friend zone, and #2 cater to what you have learned girls find attractive. In 27Thousand's case, a lot of time in the friend zone is going to be a necessary boot camp, so to speak, for merely understanding social interactions.