- #1
gravenewworld
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7407245
I knew grand theft auto was draining our kids' brain power, but dang!
I knew grand theft auto was draining our kids' brain power, but dang!
So to be fair it doesn't include Somalia or N Korea.United States and Britain at the bottom of a list of 21 economically developed nations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortalityThe World Health Organization (WHO) defines a live birth as any born human being who demonstrates independent signs of life, including breathing, voluntary muscle movement, or heartbeat. Many countries, however, including certain European states and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and raises their rates of perinatal mortality.[5]
The exclusion of any high-risk infants from the denominator or numerator in reported IMRs can be problematic for comparisons. Many countries, including the United States, Sweden or Germany, count an infant exhibiting any sign of life as alive, no matter the month of gestation or the size, but according to United States Centers for Disease Control researchers,[6] some other countries differ in these practices. All of the countries named adopted the WHO definitions in the late 1980s or early 1990s,[7] which are used throughout the European Union.[8] However, in 2009, the US CDC issued a report which stated that the American rates of infant mortality were affected by the United States' high rates of premature babies compared to European countries and which outlines the differences in reporting requirements between the United States and Europe, noting that France, the Czech Republic, Ireland, the Netherlands, and Poland do not report all live births of babies under 500 g and/or 22 weeks of gestation.[6][9][10] However, the report also concludes that the differences in reporting are unlikely to be the primary explanation for the United States’ relatively low international ranking.
mgb_phys said:1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Republic of Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12. Canada
13. Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. United States
21. United Kingdom
Obviously the problem is English -
Bottom two countries speak English
Ireland and Canada are bilingual and come half way up
We must stamp out English in our schools now.
russ_watters said:Their financial well-being is based on 3 criteria, one of which is relative income: fraction of children living in houses below the median income.
Understood/agreed.Ygggdrasil said:Regarding infant mortality, it is only one factor of the many that the UNICEF study examined. While it is likely to be weighted fairly highly, I think correctly comparing infant mortality rates would not change the results too much (while the US might not be 2nd to last, it certainly would not rise to near the top).
Agreed.A larger confounding variable in the analysis is immigration. A much larger proportion of the US's population consists of immigrant from poor countries with very low socioeconomic status, whereas many of the countries on the top of the list likely lack large populations of immigrants from poor countries.
Agreed - that's something I mentioned.Furthermore, the list may reflect fundamental philosophical differences between the US and most European nations.
Demographics of the parents informs you about the conditions the kids live under, so that is understandable - it's just using relative poverty as a measure of it that irritates me.Vanadium 50 said:That is truly bizarre. That tells you about the demographics of the parents more than anything else.
rootX said:Both US and Canada (bit more) are multilingual in aspect that you do not need to know English to perform business/most of the daily life tasks in both countries IMO.
russ_watters said:
It is the extreme measures that are taken in the US to try to bring non-viable pregnancies to term that significantly alter the infant mortality stats for the US. Most of those pregnancies would have spontaneously aborted in other countries, so are never counted. I had posted the article previously, but I don't have the time to do so right now.Ygggdrasil said:Regarding infant mortality, it is only one factor of the many that the UNICEF study examined. While it is likely to be weighted fairly highly, I think correctly comparing infant mortality rates would not change the results too much (while the US might not be 2nd to last, it certainly would not rise to near the top). Indeed, Sweden, which was mentioned as counting infant mortality rates in a similar way to the US, is 2nd on the list, indicating that the US's position on the list is due to much more than infant mortality rates. Taken together with the statement that the US's low infant mortality ranking is not primarily due to problems with how infant mortality is counted, I don't think the US's ranking can be so easily discounted.
russ_watters said:Demographics of the parents informs you about the conditions the kids live under, so that is understandable - it's just using relative poverty as a measure of it that irritates me.
Actually that should be below 50% of the national median, not just below the national median. But that mostly means that large countries like the USA gets punished since they have more diverse populations. The USA having large differences in income do not mean much for the median income so I wouldn't say that it is the reason, instead just that the population is more diverse compared to for example Denmark.russ_watters said:[reading the study]
-Their financial well-being is based on 3 criteria, one of which is relative income: fraction of children living in houses below the median income. In other words, a child in the US who'se family makes $27,000 per year is considered less well off than a child in the Czech Republic who'se family makes $20,000 (estimate). Based on inequality it has the lowest poverty rate in Europe at around 9% while ranking 56th in per capita income (note: I couldn't find actual median income stats). The Czec Republic is 7th in this category - the US is last by quite a wide margin.
Nope, the third criteria lists a few things and it makes its point based on that:russ_watters said:[reading the study]
-The third criteria of the fianancial well being category is self-reported complaints. Being complainers is practically a source of national pride in the US.
Jimmy Snyder said:The US was the worst country I ever grew up in.
Wow! This is pretty astonishing, if it is true somewhere. It certainly is not true in the US.Klockan3 said:Even the "poor" students have enough money to make trips all over the world, eat well, go out and party all the time etc, as long as they manage their money properly and works part time.
It is true in Sweden at least. I know a lot of students going on holiday trips to Asia etc. Even students who get kids manage to get by economically.Gokul43201 said:Wow! This is pretty astonishing, if it is true somewhere. It certainly is not true in the US.
Klockan3 said:It is true in Sweden at least. I know a lot of students going on holiday trips to Asia etc. Even students who get kids manage to get by economically.
Look, there is no need to nitpick when I'm sure you know what the reality is: If you lay out the countries in the study on a political spectrum, the US will be to the right of probably every other country studied. Agreed?alxm said:Yes thanks, I'm aware of what the word means. But what does it supposedly mean in a context where Sweden & Co are 'socialist' but the USA is not? The European economies are certainly much more similar to the US economy than to that of Communist countries.
#1 shouldn't need explanation.Americans have more "freedom"?(1) "Socialist" countries "force" school attendance? In what way?(2) Less affluence leadds to fewer accidents? That's ridiculous, you're blindly making stuff up. (3)
Actually, the biggest problem is the presentation. The title of the thread and the title of the NPR article are highly misleading about what the study says about the US. One of the worst in a group of 20 is probably actually one of the best of the world's 200+ countries. The NPR article is titled: "U.S. on List of UNICEF's Worst Countries for Kids". No such list exists in that article and worst countries out of what group (perhaps that's the reason for the OP's mischaracterization?) is key to not misunderstanding the study. Those types of things really irritate me.leroyjenkens said:Those are some good countries on that list, I don't see the problem.
Agreed - I didn't think of that.Vanadium 50 said:But I was thinking of something else: single income vs. two-income families. This study says its better to have two working parents than a stay-at-home Mom or Dad. Maybe yes, maybe no, but wouldn't it be better to rank this directly rather than by proxy?
Eh? Certainly some parts of the Swedish economy are planned, as they are owned and run by the government. Aren't the railroads, the mining company LKAB, and the banks all government owned in Sweden?alxm said:BTW: Socialist? What does that even mean? It's not like Sweden is, or ever has been, a planned economy.
Agreed. And a lower business tax than the US.And it's worth noting the Swedish economy is in some respects less regulated than the US economy. (e.g. They have no legal minimum wage.)
You're right - I misread.Klockan3 said:Actually that should be below 50% of the national median, not just below the national median.
Youre right - I just read the summary, which says:Nope, the third criteria lists a few things and it makes its point based on that:
Does your family own a car, van or truck?
Do you have your own bedroom for yourself?
During the past 12 months, how many times did you travel away on holiday with your family?
How many computers does your family own?
That, and I think the "fewer than 10 books" is an odd measure of affluence. The US is in the top 3rd of the first category, middle of the second and near the botom of the last - so that is what drops us well below average in that category which combines the three. They give only a 1 sentence justification of even having the third category:So it isn't subjective at all. Edit: Of course except how you define, car van truck, own room, travel away with your family and computer.