Someone show me the really vile prisoner abuse photos

[Adam]

Umm...that's not exactly torture...(handcuffed to a railing on the walkway)

Humiliation does count as torture.

 

[Adam]

So that picture right there honestly shocked you? Honestly you think that is enough to make people go "Nick Berg deserved what he got", and say things like this is the "EXACT same acts"(quote from THIS board) that were happening before.
This picture is what people equate with Saddam's torture?

1) What has Nick Berg got to do with this thread? Stop trying to change the subject.

2) There were 15 pictures. View them all. Including thsoe with the corpses.

3) Saddam's prison-keepers also killed prisoners.

 

[kat]

humiliation can be a human rights violation, not "torture".

 

[Adam]

1.

• 1. Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
• 2. An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.

2. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
3. Something causing severe pain or anguish.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=torture

 

[member 5645]

1) What has Nick Berg got to do with this thread? Stop trying to change the subject.

2) There were 15 pictures. View them all. Including thsoe with the corpses.

3) Saddam's prison-keepers also killed prisoners.

1> Give me a ****ing break Adam. I am describing responses and asking whether THAT is the picture that illicited such.

2> No, You link me to them. You all just keep saying 'the bad ones are in there'

3> Again, Show me the pictures that are so vile and are causing the response they are. So far I have seen one, and considering the apathatic response in so many other stories at so many other times- I still believe there to be more at play than people truly believing that picture is so shocking.

 

[member 5645]

Humiliation does count as torture.

So having a prisoner hooded and naked is what makes people give all these responses about how Abu Gharib is still the same torture zone as before?

 

[Adam]

The pictures rotate on that page on a menu driven by Javascript or something. Go there, click the right arrow. Your lame excuse of "I am unable to click the arrow" does not fool anyone.

 

[member 5645]

The pictures rotate on that page on a menu driven by Javascript or something. Go there, click the right arrow. Your lame excuse of "I am unable to click the arrow" does not fool anyone.

Where was that my excuse? I am making sure that you don't have some sort of way to say "no no,it's the other pictures that are so bad!"
I am looking at them! I still don't understand how, given the response to so many other actions taken by the USA and other countries, this one delivers such overwhelming, seemingly exaggerated, responses.

My point is that I do not see what the big deal is. The soldiers were wrong. They should, and are, being condemned. However, where are the pics that people are saying are the same as what Saddam did? Handuffing a guy to some railing? Making them stand naked?

Humiliation is as bad as raping your wife in front of you and then forcing you to watch her die?(which no one but us dumb Americans seemed to condemn near as loud as people are hopping on this bandwagon)?

The response to these picture shows either :
1>A feigned attempt to care
2>A shock that the USA's soldiers could do something like this
3>Caring because it's being done by the USA
4>There are public pictures that I have not seen and no one will just post in this thread.
5> A silent world populous that just got the nerve to speak up when our soldiers did it, but not when it happened at anytime before.

My goal is to find out which one, for the response, while justified if it were a common place response,is completely out of the ordinary. With people saying things like "this is the biggest scandal the US has had in the last 20 years", I fail to understand why, and you fail to explain AT ALL why it is.

 

[studentx]

I completely agree with PhatMonkey.

 

[Adam]

My point is that I do not see what the big deal is. The soldiers were wrong. They should, and are, being condemned. However, where are the pics that people are saying are the same as what Saddam did? Handuffing a guy to some railing? Making them stand naked?

Killing them...

 

[jimmy p]

However as you mentioned above, Saddams prison keepers killed prisoners. But of course, everyone would expect that really. But as soon as a Westerner does it, it becomes bombshell news.

 

[member 5645]

Killing them...

But you have not seen those pictures. No one in the public that is making all of these comments about this "scandal" has seen them. No one who has said how horrible the pictures are has seen the pictures (of what Ihave already said is by far the worst treatment in this situation).

Again, you fail to show me and explain which picture elicits such a response and why.

 

[member 5645]

However as you mentioned above, Saddams prison keepers killed prisoners. But of course, everyone would expect that really. But as soon as a Westerner does it, it becomes bombshell news.

Is that the reason? If so, why won't Adam and Palastration, OR ANYONE, say it??
If so, what does that say about all of the past conspiracies and accusations that such people have leveled against the USA? We are supposedly the great satan, however, the sheer shock that people are 'expressing' in this situation means that they either are feigning the shock, or don't actually believe us to be the great satan.

 

[jimmy p]

It just seems that the Western world is shocked though. Other than the Nick Berg incident (which people are undecided as when it happened or whatever) what have the other countries done?

Is it big news elsewhere in the world?

I have to agree with phatmonky on this one, and besides, these photos could have been photoshopped or editted. It is amazing what people will do just to make things look worse.

 

[member 5645]

It just seems that the Western world is shocked though. Other than the Nick Berg incident (which people are undecided as when it happened or whatever) what have the other countries done?

Is it big news elsewhere in the world?

I have to agree with phatmonky on this one, and besides, these photos could have been photoshopped or editted. It is amazing what people will do just to make things look worse.

What have other countries done? Well for one, my personal peeve lately is the government sponsored genocide happening in Sudan, and that doesn't make any news. Nor does anyone act shocked. Is anyone calling for the heads of those that are killing 10,000's?? nope!

All of the Arab sites I am on, it is the topic of constant reference. However, when I mention the problem with generalizing all Americans based on these people's actions, the topics simply end.

I believe the photos to be real. I simply also believe the response to be over exaggerated.

 

[Adam]

But you have not seen those pictures. No one in the public that is making all of these comments about this "scandal" has seen them. No one who has said how horrible the pictures are has seen the pictures (of what Ihave already said is by far the worst treatment in this situation).

Again, you fail to show me and explain which picture elicits such a response and why.

Once again: Look at the pictures. You may learn something. Thus far you have refused to view the pictures, and all your whacky statements are based on that ignorance.

 

[member 5645]

Once again: Look at the pictures. You may learn something. Thus far you have refused to view the pictures, and all your whacky statements are based on that ignorance.

I've looked at every single one in every single one of your posts.
Are you are stating that you find them all equally horrific, and thus all equally justifiable catalysts for the response??
I repeat, you STILL have not explained the lapse and difference in response to this compared to other, far more horrific, events.


Whacky? Ignorance? Adam hominem.

 

[Adam]

So you saw the corpses?

 

[jimmy p]

Well I haven't heard of HUGE outrage from the Middle Eastern countries, other than reports from Al Jazeera and other Arabic sources. No real news on it on TV here, other than Americans being outraged.

The pictures that are really horrific are the Holocaust pictures and the Concentration camp pictures. These pictures nowadays arent much compared to those ones.

 

[Adam]

I'm surprised it isn't all over the new there. We see it every day on 4 or 5 channels, in a dozen languages, morning, afternoon, and evening.

 

[member 5645]

So you saw the corpses?

Yes, some dead guys with soldiers giving a thumbsup.

As I said earlier in this thread:
Stupid soldiers
They should and will be punished
Such a picture never caused such 'a scandal' before. So WHY now?

 

[Adam]

Why now? Well, usually the USA government is better at covering up its atrocities.

 

[member 5645]

Why now? Well, usually the USA government is better at covering up its atrocities.

So are we saying that there is a reasonable expecatation that Americans don't act like this?
If that is so, what happened to all of the antiamericanism polls that said most people hate us? They must have had SOME backing for their thoughts, or did they?

 

[Adam]

So are we saying that there is a reasonable expecatation that Americans don't act like this?

No. There is no reasonable expectation that the US does not act like this. That country's history is full of this sort of behaviour. They merely cover it up as much as possible.

If that is so, what happened to all of the antiamericanism polls that said most people hate us? They must have had SOME backing for their thoughts, or did they?

Of course. People hate the USA. That is the backing.

 

[member 5645]

No. There is no reasonable expectation that the US does not act like this. That country's history is full of this sort of behaviour. They merely cover it up as much as possible.


Of course. People hate the USA. That is the backing.

Well then there is where I hit the problem.
If there this is a common thing, and everyone hates us, and are founded in that hate because they KNOW this is a common thing, then why the shock?

You are telling me that the shock is because we DIDN'T cover it up well enough?? I find that a bit hard to believe.

 

[Adam]

Well then there is where I hit the problem.
If there this is a common thing, and everyone hates us, and are founded in that hate because they KNOW this is a common thing, then why the shock?
You are telling me that the shock is because we DIDN'T cover it up well enough?? I find that a bit hard to believe.

I don't seem to recall ever saying I am shocked by what the US forces have been getting up to in Iraq. I recall you using the word "shock" quite a lot.

 

[member 5645]

I don't seem to recall ever saying I am shocked by what the US forces have been getting up to in Iraq. I recall you using the word "shock" quite a lot.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=pictures+iraq+shocking

I am simply repeating what the news here and abroad is describing it as.

 

[phoenixy]

nah, there is no shock, nor was there any surprise. I knew from day 1 that something like this would happen sooner or later. It only gets interesting when it gets leak to the media. All of a sudden the pro-war hawks drop their morality high ground and proclaimed "can't expect too much from us, we are just human, not liberators", "that's bad, but not as bad as Saddam, so our sub-Saddam performance is freeing the Iraqis"

The hypocrisy is overwhelming

 

[Adam]

I would bet that the "shock" comes solely from teh US press sources, who have spent so much time and effort telling everyone the USA are the good guys. "I'm shocked! Our chaps couldn't do this!".

 

[kat]

I would bet that the "shock" comes solely from teh US press sources, who have spent so much time and effort telling everyone the USA are the good guys. "I'm shocked! Our chaps couldn't do this!".

You either are a selective reader/watcher or you're not accessing mainstream american media.

 

[Adam]

Actually we get two USA news shows per day, plus news from Asia, Africa, Europe, the Middle East, South America...

 

[kat]

Wow, Newsmap seems to show that Australia is even worse then the USA...

http://www.marumushi.com/apps/newsmap/newsmap.cfm

 

[Adam]

Start a thread about Australia's problems if you wish. Might as well, we have enough of them.

 

[studentx]

Well Adam, i think this ends your credibility. Australia, a country that committed more warcrimes than America, is your home land.

 

[member 5645]

I would bet that the "shock" comes solely from teh US press sources, who have spent so much time and effort telling everyone the USA are the good guys. "I'm shocked! Our chaps couldn't do this!".

Try the google link, includes international news sites, personal pages, etc.
From your buddies at al jazeera as well ( http://www.google.com/search?num=10...all&q=shocking+abu+site:english.aljazeera.net )

Or are you trying to avoid that questions now?
Thus far, the only shock is because you expected the USA to cover their tracks better. And then you say you weren't shocked after that

Try picking a single answer.