Protesting Negative Responses in Online Forums: Physics and Math Help

[UnknownPiratte]

Yes, my mother tongue is english. I'm sorry for not typing correctly. To any other person, on any other forum, it seems to be perfectly fine. Also, I'd like to make my complaint with the evidence as follows:

btw...(by the way)... I've noticed that no one here actually cares, but I'll do it anyway.



Anttech is Online:
Posts: 1,216 Perhaps if you asked your questions in English, we might be in a better position to answer!

Mech_Engineer


Mech_Engineer is Offline:
Posts: 71 Quote:
Originally Posted by Anttech
Perhaps if you asked your questions in English, we might be in a better position to answer!


Seriously! That is really annoying, how hard is it to just type a real word?!




DaveC426913


DaveC426913 is Offline:
Posts: 1,993
Recognitions:
Science Advisor Translation (75% confidence):

Sorry, I need an alternative application
-------------------------------------

[rambling from drug-after-effect] I have not been on the Web in quite some time. I am looking for a program that functions just like Kazaa, but free. I don't know what is commonly used these days. I don't need an answer right away, just email me at cheatjunkie@hotmail.com. [more incomprehensible gibberish].



Punctuation (90% confidence):


rofl. [what] tha hell does it matter, man. my point's [made].

berkeman is Offline:
Posts: 1,532
Recognitions:
Homework Helper
Science Advisor Quote:
Originally Posted by DoAPoodle
also, at the risk of whatever, cause i haven't had net in a long time, is there a program exactly like kazaa-lite that's free? if so, this is cause i don't know what's proper n what legit IS these days, i dun need to know right away just email cheatjunkie@hotmail.com...whether it makes a difference or not i don't know so.. coo, TY

Sorry, could I please request a translation? I'm always interested in learning new things, but I'm clueless in this thread (CITT). Hep please!


EDIT -- I missed seeing Dave's post. Thanks!


Mech_Engineer


Mech_Engineer is Offline:
Posts: 71 Quote:
Originally Posted by George Jones
What does Ukranian cooking have to do with computers?


LOL

That's awesome

selfAdjoint





selfAdjoint is Offline:
Posts: 7,427 Perhaps he means "would a medical insurace policy pay off on it"?

MeJennifer


MeJennifer is Offline:
Posts: 124 Quote:
Originally Posted by selfAdjoint
Perhaps he means "would a medical insurace policy pay off on it"?

That is what I was thinking as well.

Pengwuino




Pengwuino is Online:
Posts: 4,061
Recognitions:
PF Contributor
Honestly... talking about societies ill grammar really doesn't make this a pleasent read when we have to decipher what you're trying to say as well.
__________________
Get out of my thread yomamma

Read my forums. Yes, I use slang. I use abbreviations, I use different methods of speaking so that I can converse fully and fully explain in detail what I mean. But the posts I receive (recieve?) in return are not only a waste of time, they're crude and completely disrespectful. My complaint is not that I'm mad that no one can understand what I'm trying to say or ask, my complaint is that people continue to insult me by posting their complaints that they don't understand what I'm trying to say or ask. Also, by disrespectful, I am not only referring to the complaints, I'm also referring to the remarks of a mentor, the one who should have stopped this type of thing from happening in the first place. As a member of a forum, I have a right to post my questions:

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I was not hateful, nor vulgar in my questions and was treated with negative responses. I don't believe they, nor I, actually broke or bent any of the rules and I am not here to sue anyone, but I am not here for the sake of complaining either. I am here to protest against, delay, or completely stop the negative responses posted by users and even by mentors. These are paying contributors, I am nothing but a forum user seeking answers and other questions, I know life just isn't fair and I know they haven't broken any rules... I also know I'm not going to get special treatment nor do I deserve any... But this is a homework forum. This place is supposed to help others learn and in that case grow as individuals, not to be brought down by others and taught that you can't ask any question for free and expect a highly paid answer... I've been complaining now for what seems like weeks and haven't received much encouragement except another user complaining that he can't find the necessary help either... Is there anything anyone can do to prevent this sort of thing from happening, at all? Out of decency? Respect? Commitment to a site where questions are asked sincerely and the answers are free and also sincere? Not just for me but for any other user experiencing this problem. I'm sorry again for my english, but I don't deserve insulting feedback for a simple question, nor does anyone.

 

[Pengwuino]

I don't know how you are capable of fully conversing when you are using such horrible grammar. You may understand what you're saying but to other, more mature people, they might not have a clue what you're saying. Please respect our forum members and state questions using english, not numbers or symbols. It's fairly simple.

 

[vanesch]

Commitment to a site where questions are asked sincerely and the answers are free and also sincere? Not just for me but for any other user experiencing this problem. I'm sorry again for my english, but I don't deserve insulting feedback for a simple question, nor does anyone.

I don't think you should consider these postings are "insulting" any more than others might consider your strange way of communicating "insulting" to Shakespeare's language. It's probably a social thing, and on PF I guess most people are not so much into this style of communicating. Try to publish an article in Nature written in such a way :tongue2: (or for that matter, in any scientific journal).

Consider these posts complaining about your writing style rather as an advice: if you want to get most out of PF, try to use correct English. Everybody (especially foreign speakers such as myself) can make a grammar or spelling error, or use a word incorrectly. As long as it doesn't detract from the essence of the message, there's no problem with that. But I have to say that I have a hard time reading your posts (I looked at several now) ; one needs to read it twice or three times to even start figuring out what you want to say. As I said, it is probably social. Most scientifically oriented people are hard-pushed by their advisors, professors etc... to write as clearly and correctly as possible. So you shouldn't be surprised that on a forum full of such people, your original way of communicating is somewhat shocking (and mostly: incomprehensible).

You complain about this forum supposed to help people get answers and education, and you get nothing but negative responses. Well, consider that a form of "education"! In many professional environments, you will get much less slack. If you write a letter to the director general of your company to get a raise in your communication style, I think you're in for something else but a raise. Maybe you'll be your own boss. But if you communicate in that way with your customers (unless they are 15 year olds), I don't think you'll do a lot of business either.
Communication is a social act and you tell a lot about yourself simply by the way you communicate - so it is important to get the communication tuned to the community you're addressing. The more clearly you can get your point (or your question) across, the more you will benefit from it.

 

[Moonbear]

I have not looked for the source of these comments or the posts they were responding to, so will just make a couple general observations that should apply to everyone here.

1) We generally are pretty tolerant of people whose English writing skills are weak. This is because we have quite a varied membership, including those who are not native English speakers, and those who are still young and prone to mistakes. However, this can also compound communication difficulties when someone is writing with poor grammar and spelling if they DO have the knowledge of the language to take a few extra minutes to correct it before submitting. The reason is that someone who is not a native English speaker is going to have an even harder time understanding a post in non-standard English (at the very least, if you know spelling is not your forte, compose your message offline and run it through a spell-checker before copying and pasting it onto our site; spell-check is not perfect, but for those who may need to look up words for translations, at least it gives them a chance of finding it in their dictionary).

2) We are aware that it is "en vogue" to take shortcuts with words, such as using "UR" for either "your" or "you're," on online message boards. People get used to this "lazy" form of writing, which might be okay when chatting with your friends who already know you well enough to understand your intent if the words don't communicate clearly on their own, but it is also good to stay in practice of writing formal English. Since we are an academic forum, and promote education and professional development, this is a good place to practice using more standard English. Standard or formal English are not used only for writing essays in school. I often hear the excuse, "When I have to write an essay, I'm more careful, and I go back to proofread." However, if one simply attempts to use standard English on a regular basis, they will not need to spend so much time going back and proofreading, or thinking so hard about how to construct every sentence. When you land a job for which you are paid to write letters, memos, manuals, manuscripts, etc., your boss will prefer the person who can write it well the first time with minimal time spent on corrections than the person who needs to waste an extra day of company time correcting grammar and spelling they should have used correctly the first time. So, practice it here.

3) When people reply to a thread with comments such as those listed in the original post above, if it were an isolated incident and others seem able to understand the question and reply appropriately, then I might lean toward thinking it was a single rude post, and the person writing it was wrong for making a big fuss over grammar or typos when you're here to discuss science. However, if the same comment repeatedly appears, and you find nobody is offering any other constructive replies, you might consider they are telling you that your non-standard style of writing is sufficiently confusing as to obscure communication. At least you know why you have no other replies, and can attempt to reword your question more carefully if you wish to get a response. Given the particular list of members who you have quoted, experience tells me they are really not "grammar Nazi's" around here, so if they are telling you there is a problem with your writing, it means it is bad enough that they cannot understand your question.

4) In general, this forum is made possible by the numerous folks who are willing to take time to share their expertise or experiences to help out others who could benefit from it. If someone expects them to take the time to help with their problem, then show you are at least willing to take the time to explain the problem clearly. People are a little more reluctant to spend much time assisting someone whose request reads something like, "Plz help with this prblm..." If a person can't even take the time to write out full words, why should busy professionals take time to help them solve their problem? It's a sign of mutual respect.

5) And last but not least, if someone does come across a post that is written so poorly as to be incomprehensible, please be careful of HOW you word your request for clarification (or report it if it appears to be complete gibberish, the moderators may want to determine if it's truly a communication problem or someone just spamming the forum). Insulting the person or making fun of their English is not constructive criticism. We do have members here whose English did sound quite a bit like gibberish when they joined, because they were learning it as they went, and who now are able to communicate very well. Set an example of the type of respect you wish to receive in return. Instead, try something like, "I would like to help with your problem, but am having difficulty understanding your question due to the grammatical/spelling problems. Would you please try rephrasing your question to clarify it?"

I hope this helps everyone, both the writers and readers, to communicate more clearly and respectfully with one another. We're not going to smack people on the knuckles with a ruler if you make a mistake in your writing, just please put every effort into writing as clearly as you can, and please be patient with one another if clarification is necessary.

 

[Danger]

Great post, Moonbear. While I have a bit of trouble with understanding 'wrong context' errors by some members (including a few native English speakers), it generally takes only a couple of read-throughs to figure it out. I usually won't even bother trying to read something with all of those stupid internet shorthand terms (with the exception of IIRC, IMO, and other official acronyms), unless it's very short and sensible. Even worse are things like Aviator (in whatever guise) used to post, where there is absolutely no coherency of any kind.

 

[Cincinnatus]

Actually, I've never been able to figure out what IIRC meant...

What does it mean anyway?

 

[russ_watters]

If I Remember Correctly.

 

[vanesch]

If I Remember Correctly.

Yes, what ?

 

[FredGarvin]

Who's on first?

 

[berkeman]

Yes, what ?

I'm embarrased to say how long it took me to get that one. :lol:

BTW, here's a good acronym search engine: http://www.acronymfinder.com/

 

[Cincinnatus]

haha, thanks

 

[loseyourname]

|33+ 5p34|<!11!11!(35÷35)1

Come on, man, this isn't a gamer forum!

 

[Pengwuino]

|33+ 5p34|<!11!11!(35÷35)1

Come on, man, this isn't a gamer forum!

What'd you say about my momma :grumpy:

 

[Jehuty]

What'd you say about my momma :grumpy:

He said h3 10\/35 j00...don't you feel special While I do understand the 1337 speak, it's just too much of a hassle to read, heck, it's annoying in game and it's annoying outside of the game.

 

[berkeman]

He said h3 10\/35 j00...don't you feel special While I do understand the 1337 speak, it's just too much of a hassle to read, heck, it's annoying in game and it's annoying outside of the game.

I guess it's time for me to ask for a translation again. What's 1337 speak?

 

[Jehuty]

I guess it's time for me to ask for a translation again. What's 1337 speak?

1337 speak is a kind of abbreviation used by gamers. Basically, numbers and symbols are used to represent letters...kind of like a deformed alphabet, for example 1337

1-L
3-E
7-T

The symbols just have to vaguely look like the letter. 1337 stands for "leet" which is supposed to be short for "elite" it is used by gamers who think they're superior to other players. I think it all started with some light stuff such as "u" instead of "you" but it really started when a developer mispelt the word "owned" as "pwned". So whenever you won, it would say "you pwned the other team" Along with this there have been many variations in leet speak. Let's say I wanted to say "science owns" translating it into leet speak it would end up looking something like

"5c13nc3 pwnz!"

and if I were to get really into it, I could use brackets to represent the letter C and mess around with the slash symbol to make the letter N.

 

[berkeman]

Wow. Thanks, Jehuty. I learn something new every dang day!

 

[Danger]

If I chose to pay attention to that ****, it would give me a headache. :grumpy:

But thanks for the explanation, Jahuty.

 

[loseyourname]

Garvin asked a question and then deleted it, but I'm going to answer anyway. The historical development of 1337 speak wasn't about ease of typing. It was originally a way of bypassing word filters and username-specific bans on game servers. It has sort of dovetailed with IM acronyms and text-message cypher, which is designed for that purpose and I believe originated with pager cyphers. If you remember pagers, they had only numbers, so much like when you used to mess around to type messages on a calculator when you were a kid (hey, we did it when I was a kid), if you wanted to convey a verbal message, you needed to use a numerical cypher of some sort.

At this point, though, 1337 speak has become somewhat of a parody of itself, and most usage on message boards is meant to be sardonic in a hipster sort of way, aside from the few preteen and teen gamers that still use it without a tongue in their cheeks.

 

[0rthodontist]

If I Remember Correctly.

Ha, that's kind of funny, I always thought IIRC meant "to recall." Guess I never looked it up.

That's weird.

 

[FredGarvin]

Garvin asked a question and then deleted it, but I'm going to answer anyway. The historical development of 1337 speak wasn't about ease of typing. It was originally a way of bypassing word filters and username-specific bans on game servers...

Yeah. I thought I was being a bit too sarcastic to do any good, so I deleted. So this was sort of like spamers getting around spam filters? I did not know that. Ya learn something new every day.

At this point, though, 1337 speak has become somewhat of a parody of itself, and most usage on message boards is meant to be sardonic in a hipster sort of way, aside from the few preteen and teen gamers that still use it without a tongue in their cheeks.

I'd mostly agree with you. A couple of boards I have been on have used this as a sarcastic punch, usually to a putdown. However, a lot of teens and others I have seen use this as a regular form of writing. Those are the ones that make me shake my head.