Not having children to save money

[gmax137]

Years ago I was working a job in Maine. On the radio one day they were talking to an 85 year old man who had just married a 23 year old woman. The interviewer asked, "don't you know, sex at that age can be fatal?" The old man answered, "If she dies, she dies..."

Good luck.

 

[WWGD]

Your task - to refute the data I'm asserting - would be to show that the statistically demonstrable drop off of new families as the parents age is not directly due to aging.

Otherwise, how do you account for the decrease of new families as a function of age?

Maybe we can factor in here, radical offshoots like third wave feminism and mgtow, which feed off each other. I don't know if these are as important worldwide as they are in North America.
And yet, we don't see a preponderance of younger mothers with significantly older husbands. They exist, but they are in the minority. The lion's share of new families are not like this. Showing that
1] factors such as wealth or good looks, while a factor, are not the major factor, and
2] that they make their presence felt across the spectrum, not correlated with age.

 

[WWGD]

Many of your arguments stem from the notion that human behaviors are inherited and follow patterns laid down in the far distant past. Maybe they do, who knows? But the vision you have of the past (cavemen trading resources and security for sex) is something pulled from the air. Maybe your cavewomen were much stronger than you think. Maybe they banded together in groups; aunts uncles and friends providing mutual support. Maybe a hundred other scenarios. I object to the idea that you can suss out the form of human society tens of thousands of years ago using logic and reasoning. Before you can say today's patterns were set (in an evolutionary sense) in the past, I think you need an evidence-based understanding of how that past society actually worked. Evidence, not conjecture, about human lifestyles tens to hundreds of thousands of years ago.
"Particles" are by definition indistinguishable (e.g., all electrons are the same). This is not true with humans. For example:
I know several very successful people who made lots of money, with no formal education at all: they are high school dropouts and stopped paying attention in sixth grade. The point is, seemingly absolute ideas can fail when you consider the diversity of human experience.

Yes, but I think it is fair to say those ate more the exception than the rule. And some of those may have had informal education ( i.e. not obtained through formal schooling), such as bill Gates ( who was also helped by having a safety net in a millionaire father). These factors are worth controlling for.

 

[Rive]

Years ago I was working a job in Maine. On the radio one day they were talking to an 85 year old man who had just married a 23 year old woman. The interviewer asked, "don't you know, sex at that age can be fatal?" The old man answered, "If she dies, she dies..."

Well, another interesting question for couples with that much age difference is about having children (fitting with the topic). I can't remember where this joke is from, but the question was: the old man with the young (and, the key point: pretty) wife - does the man has any hope for children?
The answer was: should he hope - or fear?...

 

[DaveC426913]

A cool visualization chart of dating prospects by age that @FallenApple might find useful.

https://flowingdata.com/projects/2018/dating-pool/

 

[FallenApple]

A cool visualization chart of dating prospects by age that @FallenApple might find useful.

https://flowingdata.com/projects/2018/dating-pool/

Dating pool also increases as accumulated wealth increases.

Having children early on in life is a huge drain on financial resources and time.

Think of it this way, each child cost about 200k to raise to college age. That's the price of a small house overseas. Furthermore, there's the opportunity cost of family time not spent on wealth enhancement. This time sink is arguably even more financially deleterious than that raw sink of 200k.

All that is enough capital for me to actually run a business or go into investing.

 

[WWGD]

Dating pool also increases as accumulated wealth increases.

Having children early on in life is a huge drain on financial resources and time.

Think of it this way, each child cost about 200k to raise to college age. That's the price of a small house overseas. Furthermore, there's the opportunity cost of family time not spent on wealth enhancement. This time sink is arguably even more financially deleterious than that raw sink of 200k.

All that is enough capital for me to actually run a business or go into investing.

I think all the factors you cite that are in your favor (and I believe they are) ultimately help you make it possible to _meet someone_ but from there on it comes down to personality traits and compatibility.

 

[ZeGato]

Dating pool also increases as accumulated wealth increases.

Having children early on in life is a huge drain on financial resources and time.

Think of it this way, each child cost about 200k to raise to college age. That's the price of a small house overseas. Furthermore, there's the opportunity cost of family time not spent on wealth enhancement. This time sink is arguably even more financially deleterious than that raw sink of 200k.

All that is enough capital for me to actually run a business or go into investing.

But hypothetically, and I hope it doesn't happen, what if you don't live for as long as you think you're going to? Or what if, for whatever reason, you don't become rich? If having children is your goal, delaying it so much seems like a huge risk.

 

[FallenApple]

But hypothetically, and I hope it doesn't happen, what if you don't live for as long as you think you're going to? Or what if, for whatever reason, you don't become rich? If having children is your goal, delaying it so much seems like a huge risk.

Becoming wealthy is my top priority. I would like to build a family, but that isn't my main goal in life. Financial stress leads to an unhappy life. I'd imagine the guilt from not being a good provider to one's own children would also lead to an unhappy life. I'm not willing to even risk a 1% chance of that happening to me.

Unlike credit card debts which can be wiped out with bankruptcy, that 200k debt from having a child is a done deal. No other contact is quite as binding as the contract of parenthood. Which is why I'm not rushing to start a family as it is a big decision.

 

[Dale]

Dating pool also increases as accumulated wealth increases.

No. The rule used to determine the dating pool is purely age based. It has no bearing on wealth.

 

[FallenApple]

No. The creepiness rule is purely age based. It has no bearing on wealth.

Many studies point to the fact that wealth leads to a larger dating pool.

 

[Dale]

Many studies point to the fact that wealth leads to a larger dating pool.

You are confusing “odds of success” with “dating pool”. Wealth does not increase the number of available women, only the likelihood of a positive response.

 

[DaveC426913]

Many studies point to the fact that wealth leads to a larger dating pool.

While I don't refute that, the point still remains: by how much?

As I have pointed out multiple times:
Your age will shrink the pool dramatically. Wealth will factor in - by having the pool shrink slightly less dramatically.

 

[FallenApple]

You are confusing “odds of success” with “dating pool”. Wealth does not increase the number of available women, only the likelihood of a positive response.

So wealth only increases the likelihood of positive response within the dating pool determined by one's age?

Does wealth not also change the pool itself?

 

[FallenApple]

While I don't refute that, the point still remains: by how much?

As I have pointed out multiple times:
Your age will shrink the pool dramatically. Wealth will factor in - by having the pool shrink slightly less dramatically.

The graph shows that the pool peaks at age 50. That's a long ways away. That means the pool is actually growing with age, not shrinking.

 

[DaveC426913]

The graph shows that the pool peaks at age 50. That's a long ways away. That means the pool is actually growing with age, not shrinking.

No. That's everyone.

Scroll down to the interactive visualizer.
If you're looking for women, with a job, and any ethnicity, the pool peaks at 38.

 

[Dale]

Does wealth not also change the pool itself?

You can be rich as Elon Musk, but that doesn’t make dead women live. In principle you could use your money to fund divorces. But barring that, no wealth does not alter the size of the pool.

 

[Tom.G]

no wealth does not alter the size of the pool.

It just modifies the subset of the pool that are interested... as does education, and personality, and... ad infinitum

 

[FallenApple]

It just modifies the subset of the pool that are interested... as does education, and personality, and... ad infinitum

That is a good point. The more wealth the better. A larger subset of the a restricted pool( restricted by age presumably) is much better a smaller subset of that restricted pool.

The effect of education could be could be confounded by wealth since wealth is directly correlated with education.

 

[FallenApple]

You can be rich as Elon Musk, but that doesn’t make dead women live. In principle you could use your money to fund divorces. But barring that, no wealth does not alter the size of the pool.

Elon Musk dated a very attractive actress more than 10 years younger than him.

While his 100 hr work weeks probably caused some relationship issues, his pool is clearly vast.

Even assuming age determines the pool, the effective pool is really what really matters.

I think being extraordinarily wealthy can only help with the odds. The only negative side effects of that wealth is what it took to get there. In Elon's case, he just works too much, which comes hand in hand with being wealthy I suppose.

 

[Dale]

Elon Musk dated a very attractive actress more than 10 years younger than him.

She was already in his dating pool since he was older than 34 at the time. His money was not relevant to that. His money did not expand the pool to include her, their respective ages meant that she was already in his dating pool.

Dating outside your age-defined pool is considered “creepy”. Being rich doesn’t make underage involvement any less creepy. So the same demographics pointed out by others above apply regardless of wealth.

 

[George Jones]

Elon Musk dated a very attractive actress more than 10 years younger than him.

I know three couples where the age difference is greater than 10 years (including my wife and me, 11 years), and another couple where the age difference is 8 years. While all of the people in these couples are professional, none are nearly as wealthy as Elon Musk. All of the couples have been married for at least 15 years, and all of them have kids.

 

[FallenApple]

She was already in his dating pool since he was older than 34 at the time. His money was not relevant to that. His money did not expand the pool to include her, their respective ages meant that she was already in his dating pool.

Dating outside your age-defined pool is considered “creepy”. Being rich doesn’t make underage involvement any less creepy. So the same demographics pointed out by others above apply regardless of wealth.

I’m not saying underage involvement is ok. It clearly isn’t. But I think it’s ok for a man in his mid thirties to date a woman in her mid twenties. The relative difference isn’t too great. Similarly, a man in his 40s isn’t too far in age from a woman in her 30s if we look at the relative difference compared to absolute difference.

 

[Dale]

But I think it’s ok for a man in his mid thirties to date a woman in her mid twenties. The relative difference isn’t too great.

Sure. That is already accounted for in the demographics above.

 

[DaveC426913]

I’m not saying underage involvement is ok. It clearly isn’t. But I think it’s ok for a man in his mid thirties to date a woman in her mid twenties. The relative difference isn’t too great. Similarly, a man in his 40s isn’t too far in age from a woman in her 30s if we look at the relative difference compared to absolute difference.

So, let's say we grant everything you posit.

1. You start looking at, say, 40.
2. Your range is 27 to 66.
3. Of that pool, x% will be interested in you by default, giving subset y as the set of all women who want to date you.
4. Then you reveal this fabulous wealth that you're going to acquire (through an as-yet undetermined, but surefire method of beating inflation ).
5. Now, y will increase by a factor of w, which is some value > 1.0. (We have very different ideas about that value. ) This the subset of women who are only now interested in you - specifically because of your money - that were not interested in you before.
6. Now you meet a woman who is in the y*w category.

In other words, this woman had no interest in dating you, until she learned about your fabulous wealth.

Are you OK with this? Will you marry her? Have children with her? Knowing that she was not interested in you until she learned you had money?

I strongly suggest adding some steps:
5b. Introduce a prenuptial agreement.
5c. w will be reduced to a number very very close to 1.0.

So, what have you accomplished? You will have a number of women interested in you y*w, where w is very small. This is the subset of women who were not interested in you when they thought you had no money, then became interested in you once they learned you had money, then stayed interested in you when they found out they couldn't take half of it in a divorce.

In fact, w might well be negative. A percentage of women who were genuinely interested in you, regardless of your money, will be put off by the presentation of a prenup. Prenups aren't about money - they're about trust. And you've just told this girl who is (or was) in love with you that you don't trust her.

 

[gleem]

Becoming wealthy is my top priority

That said then you should not have children or even marry.

 

[FallenApple]

That said then you should not have children or even marry.

Financial security is extremely important.

 

[Dale]

Financial security is extremely important.

It is. And besides, when you are on your deathbed you can just hire an acting troupe to come tell you how much they will miss you and how great of an impact you have had on their lives and all of the usual stuff. You can even have them bring young child actors to play the role of your grandchildren and reminisce about fishing trips. And you can pretend that the tears are real and that you just have a bit of memory loss.

Oh, and I am sure that the young sexy soon to be widow who was only interested in you because of your money will be genuinely sad that her financially driven actions will now pay out so handsomely.

 

[russ_watters]

Financial security is extremely important.

Yes, but that's a very different statement from your previous one.

 

[FallenApple]

It is. And besides, when you are on your deathbed you can just hire an acting troupe to come tell you how much they will miss you and how great of an impact you have had on their lives and all of the usual stuff. You can even have them bring young child actors to play the role of your grandchildren and reminisce about fishing trips. And you can pretend that the tears are real and that you just have a bit of memory loss.

Oh, and I am sure that the young sexy soon to be widow who was only interested in you because of your money will be genuinely sad that her financially driven actions will now pay out so handsomely.

I understand that the clock is ticking. Not much I can do about that. Hopefully I can rest and focus on serious relationships after one decade. If not, then I'm ok with being alone on my deathbed. Children are luxuries, not necessarily necessities. Would I be slightly disappointed if I leave no legacy? Sure. Would it kill me? Probably not.

I've been through several relationships and it almost feels staged. When things are peachy financially, life is great, and when not, well they'll just drop you. If something was so fragile to begin with, then one has to ask the question of whether any of it was real in the first place.

 

[FallenApple]

Yes, but that's a very different statement from your previous one.

What was the previous one? I posted this thread months ago.

 

[Vanadium 50]

you can just hire an acting troupe

Thank you for not writing "troop".

 

[Mark44]

Thank you for not writing "troop".

@FallenApple can hire an acting troupe to troop past his deathbed...

 

[gleem]

When things are peachy financially, life is great, and when not, well they'll just drop you.

This seems to have been mentioned a few times in this thread. This suggests to me at least some element of financial instability.on your part. Do you have a problem maintaining a consistent or predicable financial situation?

 

[FallenApple]

This seems to have been mentioned a few times in this thread. This suggests to me at least some element of financial instability.on your part. Do you have a problem maintaining a consistent or predicable financial situation?

Not anymore, lesson learned. But it is a bit of a disappointment to know how things really are. This is why I don't believe much in family anymore and decided to put all my efforts into being completely financially secure and then eventually very wealthy. I decided to work all the time and to cut time consuming social interactions such as dating completely out of my life. I've noticed that I'm more productive this way.