How Do Santa Ana Winds Influence Wildfires in Southern California?

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In summary, the Santa Ana winds have caused widespread destruction, with over 250,000 people being evacuated in Southern California. Homes have been destroyed in Poway and other areas, and firefighters are concerned that the winds could change direction and cause more fires.
  • #1
Ivan Seeking
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...Gusts hit 108 mph at Whitaker Peak near Castaic Lake and 111 mph [ ] at Laguna Peak, near Point Mugu.

The powerful Santa Anas are the result of a cool high-pressure system in the Great Basin above Utah and a warmer low-pressure system along coastal Southern California.

..."The relative humidity went from 60% to 70% around dawn to single digits: 5, 7, 8%," Kenneth Reeves, director of forecasting for Accuweather.com said.
[continued]
http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...2,1,3236850.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage

INCREDIBLE! Those winds are very hot, very dry, and fire responders are calling the conditions unprecedented in their experience.
 
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  • #2
I heard about that earlier today.

I was out in SD after they had those big fires a few years back. It was bad. The fire came within a couple of hundred meters of the home of one my colleagues. Several houses in the neighborhood burned down completely. It was amazing to see some lots completely empty while right next door on either side the houses remained intact with very little damage. Basically those home without fire resistant roofing were gonners.

100 mph winds though! That's severe, especially with dry grass land.
 
  • #3
250,000 people are being evacuated in the SD area.
 
  • #4
Ivan Seeking said:
250,000 people are being evacuated in the SD area.
I saw that report on BBC news. Where will they move that many people to? The report didn't say.
 
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  • #5
Ivan Seeking said:
250,000 people are being evacuated in the SD area.
Oh, man! My colleague is overseas this week and his wife and kids are on their own! :frown:
 
  • #6
Astronuc said:
Oh, man! My colleague is overseas this week and his wife and kids are on their own! :frown:


I guess Poway has been hit hard, and they are evacuating another 15,000 [265,000 so far], but I don't know from where. The football stadium is being used as a shelter and the hotels are all booked.

Firefighters are talking about the winds changing tomorrow at 3PM. But, they add, if the winds keep up, some fires could burn all the way to the ocean.
 
  • #7
The Santa Anas seem calmer today. I am not near any fires but my eyes are stinging from the smoke. My little brother got hustled out of Pepperdine early yesterday morning. His team was down there for a water polo match.
 
  • #8
Ivan Seeking said:
I guess Poway has been hit hard, and they are evacuating another 15,000 [265,000 so far], but I don't know from where. The football stadium is being used as a shelter and the hotels are all booked.
Oh, Nuts! That's were a couple of colleagues live.

Just found out they evacuated earlier today. Poway has apparently lost about 70 homes. :frown:

Firefighters are talking about the winds changing tomorrow at 3PM. But, they add, if the winds keep up, some fires could burn all the way to the ocean.
About half the folks (those living north) in the company are affected. :frown:
 
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  • #9
MIH, is Pepperdine still evacuated? I read some reports that they were evacuated, then others that they weren't, but had moved the students all to one building considered to be on a "safe" part of campus, and then some said they were evacuated but then the evacuation was lifted. I can't figure out what's going on there.

Hopefully the winds will ease by tomorrow as predicted and they'll gain some control over this monster so people can start returning to their homes. It's pretty scary sounding when they're still saying 0% containment after several days of fighting it. I've NEVER heard a report say 0% containment before.

I can't believe there are morons who didn't evacuate and the firefighters are wasting resources saving those people's butts rather than fighting the fires. One guy sounded totally nonchalant about that, saying he just decided to duck when they came by and sat and had a beer while waiting. :bugeye: Sometimes I just think in situations like that, they should leave a big sign on the front door after they've been through that they were there, anyone returning to the home should leave, and that they won't be back...if you ignore the cops coming door-to-door telling you to evacuate, you're on your own.
 
  • #10
Moonbear said:
MIH, is Pepperdine still evacuated? I read some reports that they were evacuated, then others that they weren't, but had moved the students all to one building considered to be on a "safe" part of campus, and then some said they were evacuated but then the evacuation was lifted. I can't figure out what's going on there.

Hopefully the winds will ease by tomorrow as predicted and they'll gain some control over this monster so people can start returning to their homes. It's pretty scary sounding when they're still saying 0% containment after several days of fighting it. I've NEVER heard a report say 0% containment before.

I just talked with my aunt in Huntington Beach as I couldn't get through to my cousin near San Diego. My cousin is okay but has evacuees in her home. The weather reports are now saying that the winds won't let up until Wednesday. It sounds like Fallbrook was hit or at least evacuated, and there is talk of evacuating Camp Pendleton.
 
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  • #11
Moonbear said:
MIH, is Pepperdine still evacuated? I read some reports that they were evacuated, then others that they weren't, but had moved the students all to one building considered to be on a "safe" part of campus, and then some said they were evacuated but then the evacuation was lifted. I can't figure out what's going on there.

I am not sure if they all got transported out yesterday, but if they did, they're back now. Classes are canceled for tomorrow, and they've asked everyone on campus to stay put.
 
  • #12
Just had another call. Apparently part of Pepperdine burned.
 
  • #13
This last week my son, his wife and their 5mo old son were visiting. They flew out of Pdx Saturday to visit my ex in laws (his maternal grandparents) in San Diego. I just talked to him. His uncle and family have been evacutated and are uncertian as to the fate of their home. Currently all are well and staying with the grand parents.
 
  • #14
no wonder its been so dry down here the last few days!
 
  • #16
The news coverage this morning looks just as bleak. Actually, worse, because there are more and more displaced people evacuated from their homes. They said even 8-lane highways aren't stopping these fires! The winds are whipping them up so high that the embers are jumping right over. :bugeye:

As they were showing photos, you could just see as houses flared up in the middle of the flames. They were interviewing a firefighter, and you can tell this is really taking it's toll on them too...not just physically from fighting the fires, but emotionally, knowing that the people who are losing their homes don't even know they've lost them yet, and how hard it's going to be on them when they find out they've lost everything.

I had already heard over the weekend that one of the fires was started by downed power lines, but heard today that a second one that has contributed to these fires is suspected arson!
 
  • #17
The news is saying that only the first fire in Malibu was from downed power lines, the rest appear to be arson. I hope they find the criminals responsible.
 
  • #18
Ivan Seeking said:
Just had another call. Apparently part of Pepperdine burned.

I haven't heard anything about a fire on the Pepperdine campus yet - only that a Hughes Labs building and a Presbyterian church that were nearby were lost.

I am worried about Zooby's brush shelter.
 
  • #19
Math Is Hard said:
I haven't heard anything about a fire on the Pepperdine campus yet - only that a Hughes Labs building and a Presbyterian church that were nearby were lost.

I am worried about Zooby's brush shelter.

Thanks Math. So far no immediate threats to the city, itself though one large fire is moving toward Chula Vista which is south of San Diego.
 
  • #20
The Witch Creek Fire (northern SD)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071023/images/witch.pdf

They seem to be having problems on their site.
 
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  • #21
Astronuc said:
The Witch Creek Fire (northern SD)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071023/images/witch.pdf

They seem to be having problems on their site.
They probably don't have enough bandwidth to handle the number of people trying to connect to their site, their site appears to be hosted in Dallas.
 
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  • #22
zoobyshoe said:
Thanks Math. So far no immediate threats to the city, itself though one large fire is moving toward Chula Vista which is south of San Diego.

That's where my boyfriend and his sister live. He said last night that she was getting ready to evacuate. She is pretty close to the Mexican border. I don't know if he has to leave or not. On the map the fire looks so big, it looks like it will just wrap around Otay Lake instead of stopping there.
 
  • #23
I've got a call into my sister. My nephew is deployed and his wife and daughter are in SD with no other family. He and his wife are career Navy, so hopefully the Navy is making arrangements to protect personnel and dependents.
 
  • #24
Evo said:
They probably don't have enough bandwidth to handle the number of people trying to connect to their site, their site appears to be hosted in Dallas.

It seems every site someone has posted a link to anywhere that has live tracking of the fire is bogged down, either not loading at all, or VERY slow. After trying a couple, I've decided to not bother trying any more...I'll leave it for those who really need to know in the area to get to the site.

Other than the arena, where else are the evacuated residents going? Are they all in hotels in the cities?

I heard the airlines are waiving change fees for the area airports so people can leave the city early (or return later, I hope) to take some of the burden off finding places for tourists in addition to displaced residents. I don't know if it's all airlines, or all area airports, or just some (caught the tail end of the story on CNN).
 
  • #25
Other than the arena, where else are the evacuated residents going? Are they all in hotels in the cities?
County fair grounds, various civic centers, schools, family-friends-relatives. In the city proper, apparenly a lot of out-of-towners just up and left, so people looking for shelter took the open rooms with steep discounts.

About half of our company had to leave their homes. Our president put up two couples - he has a 4 bdrm home. Others went to various family members outside the evacuation area. So far, no one from our company has lost a home. However, tonight will be crucial. The hope is that winds die down so they can actually fight the fire.
 
  • #26
Math Is Hard said:
That's where my boyfriend and his sister live. He said last night that she was getting ready to evacuate. She is pretty close to the Mexican border. I don't know if he has to leave or not. On the map the fire looks so big, it looks like it will just wrap around Otay Lake instead of stopping there.

Last time there was a huge fire like this (4 years ago?) I saw that the fires stopped at thickly settled areas where it no longer encountered unwatered, dry brush, etc. Within a city like Chula Vista there's a lot of grooming of vegetation and ice plant all over the place (planted specifically to act as fire blocks), houses with fireproof roofing, so, if it gets that far, it'll be much easier to squelch.
 
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  • #27
Just got off the phone with my sister. I misjudged, and my nephew and his ship are indeed in-port. He and his wife and daughter are not under evacuation orders, but he is storing a couple of motorcycles for a friend living 20 minutes away that has been forced to evacuate. Given SD drive-time, 20 minutes does not translate into too many miles. My grand-niece did not go to school today due to their uncertain situation and the poor air quality. Everything outdoors at their place is covered with ash, and my nephew has to keep an eye out and hose down the house whenever heavy ash and embers are flying.
 
  • #28
zoobyshoe said:
Last time there was a huge fire like this (4 years ago?) I saw that the fires stopped at thickly settled areas where it no longer encountered unwatered, dry brush, etc. Within a city like Chula Vista there's a lot of grooming of vegetation and ice plant all over the place (planted specifically to act as fire blocks), houses with fireproof roofing, so, if it gets that far, it'll be much easier to squelch.
Yes - 2003.
 
  • #29
MSNBC has a map with their coverage that was easy to access. I'm not sure how often they'll update it, though.
 
  • #30
turbo-1 said:
Just got off the phone with my sister. I misjudged, and my nephew and his ship are indeed in-port. He and his wife and daughter are not under evacuation orders, but he is storing a couple of motorcycles for a friend living 20 minutes away that has been forced to evacuate. Given SD drive-time, 20 minutes does not translate into too many miles. My grand-niece did not go to school today due to their uncertain situation and the poor air quality. Everything outdoors at their place is covered with ash, and my nephew has to keep an eye out and hose down the house whenever heavy ash and embers are flying.

I guess they could all hop onto a ship and hang out just off-shore if the base or base housing are threatened. :biggrin:
 
  • #31
Over 500,000 evacuated! :bugeye:

Wow, this is amazing.
 
  • #32
Ivan Seeking said:
Over 500,000 evacuated! :bugeye:

Wow, this is amazing.

I heard on CNN that one of the fires (hopefully the largest) has already burned 70,000 acres! Did I really hear that right? I can't even wrap my head around the enormity of fires that large and destructive.
 
  • #33
If the information I read a few minutes ago is accurate the Witch fire appears to be well over a 100,000 acres.

The Cedar fire in 2003 was around 200,000 acres (?).
 
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  • #34
I live in San Diego. Bad air quality.
 
  • #35
Far Star said:
If the information I read a few minutes ago is accurate the Witch fire appears to be well over a 100,000 acres.

The Cedar fire in 2003 was around 200,000 acres (?).

The 2003 fires were made of several fires (Cedar, Paradise, Otay, smaller ones) with a combined acreage of at least 350,000 acres, I'm guessing 420,000
 

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