Help Karen Klein: Support Bullied Bus Monitor

[rootX]

This is just crazy. I get on youtube being bullied or as a crying third world child and I can get millions of dollars?
http://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein

As for the incident itself, I feel like when parents should have been informed about it personally not through youtube.

 

[Number Nine]

This is just crazy. I get on youtube being bullied or as a crying third world child and I can get millions of dollars?
http://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein

As for the incident itself, I feel like when parents should have been informed about it personally not through youtube.

The parents weren't "informed" about it via Youtube; one of the students responsible filmed it and posted it, apparently believing that people generally support this kind of thing. Someone then started taking donations with the hope of raising enough to send her on a nice vacation, apparently because she has to put up with things like this year round. Of course, they've since raised about $500,000; God bless people's desperate need to derive self-worth from their superiority to the lowest common denominator (Read the Youtube comments and take a drink every time someone makes a comment that makes them sound courageous or righteous for opposing the obviously-appalling behaviour of these kids).

 

[rootX]

The parents weren't "informed" about it via Youtube; one of the students responsible filmed it and posted it, apparently believing that people generally support this kind of thing.

Yes, I know she didn't film the video. But couldn't she go to their parents home and inform what their kids were doing or inform their home teacher or something? If she didn't do anything herself, I think some of the blame should go on herself too.

Someone then started taking donations with the hope of raising enough to send her on a nice vacation, apparently because she has to put up with things like this year round. Of course, they've since raised about $500,000; God bless people's desperate need to derive self-worth from their superiority to the lowest common denominator (Read the Youtube comments and take a drink every time someone makes a comment that makes them sound courageous or righteous for opposing the obviously-appalling behaviour of these kids).

People go bit over-hyper when it comes to these things (see Kony case also). I feel there are better causes to support. There are people who don't even have money to afford one day food let alone going on any kind of vacation.

When I was young if any kid would misbehave, first he would be disciplined by teachers and then by parents at home. The culture these kids growing in seems wrong not the kids. It's ridiculous that they can get to youtube before their parents figure out what they are upto.

 

[Number Nine]

When I was young if any kid would misbehave, first he would be disciplined by teachers and then by parents at home. The culture these kids growing in seems wrong not the kids. It's ridiculous that they can get to youtube before their parents figure out what they are upto.

What I'm wondering is: Where was the bus driver in all of this? When I took the school bus as a kid, any nonsense like this was met with a swift "Knock it off!" from the bus driver, who reported any misbehaving to the school as soon as she arrived.

 

[gravenewworld]

I'd wholeheartedly support bringing back corporal punishment and the public stock for reasons like this. The kids have since written apology letters, but the only reason they're really sorry is that they got caught.

 

[Chi Meson]

Yeah, this absurdity must stop! These people getting bullied, living lives of pitiful unfairness... #### 'em, I say. Just listen to this slop from the founder of the fundraiser:

Max Sidorov posted an announcement 2 days ago

Wow, so another hectic day is done and I am absolutely exhausted.. 3 days of non stop fundraising! Emails, phone calls, interviews, spreading the message of love and kindness! Hopefully the media blitz can settle down so i can at least resume my regular life…

So this has just gone above and beyond anything I or any of you could have expected right!? Wow, you guys just warm my heart, so many kind and generous people in the world…

And it doesn’t stop here, there are so many more people that need our collective help! Start your own fundraisers, community programs, or platforms to spread the peace.

Most of all spread the love around yourselves, if you see someone in need, give them a helping hand or a kind gesture, if you see someone down on their luck give them a smile, you never know what others are going through and you never know that your smile can change someone’s life!

Love makes the world go around… give people compliments, notice others, encourage them, tell them how much you love them, hug them, kiss them, help them…

We can do a lot more with kindness and help than with cruelty and hate.. I am so glad i was part of this, i will keep you all dear in my heart.

What are we to expect from a world full of people like this?

[/ironic sarcasm]

 

[rootX]

Yeah, this absurdity must stop! These people getting bullied, living lives of pitiful unfairness... #### 'em, I say. Just listen to this slop from the founder of the fundraiser:


What are we to expect from a world full of people like this?

[/ironic sarcasm]

But you are not saying anything in the defense of the bus monitor/driver who appeared not to report the incident.

 

[Chi Meson]

But you are not saying anything in the defense of the bus monitor/driver who appeared not to report the incident.

I don't understand your complaint, that's all. Some people choose to provide her with enough money to go on a "nice vacation." The nice vacation seems to have gotten more response than anyone anticipated.

Is it your complaint that she did not do enough to defend herself, and therefore is undeserving of what other people have decided to give to her?

 

[Number Nine]

I don't understand your complaint, that's all. Some people choose to provide her with enough money to go on a "nice vacation." The nice vacation seems to have gotten more response than anyone anticipated.

Is it your complaint that she did not do enough to defend herself, and therefore is undeserving of what other people have decided to give to her?

I don't think the problem is that people have donated money to her; that's wonderful. The problem is that people seem to regard the donations as a grand and heartwarming display of righteousness, when there are millions of others in desperate need of money who aren't receiving donations. This story, I think, resonates with people because it allows them to look at these kids and think "I'm not as bad as them (therefore I'm good)"; the first part is true (and utterly trivial), but the last part doesn't follow, and it's what I find irritating about most of the coverage and most of the comments on Youtube.

 

[rootX]

I don't understand your complaint, that's all. Some people choose to provide her with enough money to go on a "nice vacation." The nice vacation seems to have gotten more response than anyone anticipated.

Is it your complaint that she did not do enough to defend herself, and therefore is undeserving of what other people have decided to give to her?

Problem is how many people even gave a second thought before giving away their money? How many times they have wasted money on the most undeserving causes ever: Kony, girl faking cancer, supporting miners trapped, Afghanistan three cups guy? If they want to feel happy by giving away their money, they should think a bit rather than following brainwashing over-hyped media stories.

Knowing complete details, it might be that people are supporting the bus monitor for her incompetence to keep the bullying in check. She might have encouraged bulling of her and other children than stopping it. Now, she also put the children lives who bullied her in danger. Lots of dumb supporters are sending the kids death threats! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18540629)

 

[wuliheron]

Sometimes a show of public support is simply a great way to get a message across. This woman is news and so is the fact people have sent her half a million dollars. Judges routinely do the same kind of thing making examples out of specific cases to get the message out there that this is not OK and society does not support it.

 

[Antiphon]

Problem is how many people even gave a second thought before giving away their money? How many times they have wasted money on the most undeserving causes ever: Kony, girl faking cancer, supporting miners trapped, Afghanistan three cups guy? If they want to feel happy by giving away their money, they should think a bit rather than following brainwashing over-hyped media stories.

This is cut and dried. The video speaks for itself. The other cases you mentioned involved a fraud.

Knowing complete details, it might be that people are supporting the bus monitor for her incompetence to keep the bullying in check. She might have encouraged bulling of her and other children than stopping it. Now, she also put the children lives who bullied her in danger. Lots of dumb supporters are sending the kids death threats! (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18540629)

[The following is an opionion, not a fact. I am NOT attemping to pass off my opinion as fact, since that might earn an infraction.]

While you are likely not a hearless and/or envious fool, your post makes you seem like one by asserting that SHE put the children's lives in danger. Quit while you're ahead.

 

[DaveC426913]

Now, she also put the children lives who bullied her in danger. Lots of dumb supporters are sending the kids death threats!

No, she did not put the children's lives in danger. She is not responsible either for the display of behavior, or for its public posting, or for the reaction of the world.

 

[rootX]

No, she did not put the children's lives in danger. She is not responsible either for the display of behavior, or for its public posting, or for the reaction of the world.

You are taking it out of context. It's not her but "her incompetence to keep the bullying in check" what endangered those kids. If you read the entire thread, I questioned why she didn't report it to parents/school and how kids managed to post this on youtube.

If you read about duties of a bus monitor here's what you will see:

1) Monitors conduct of students on school bus to maintain discipline and safety: Directs loading of students on bus to prevent congestion and unsafe conditions.

http://dot-job-descriptions.careerplanner.com/SCHOOL-BUS-MONITOR.cfm
I expect from a bus monitor to report anything negative happens on the bus to the proper authorities. She is not the one I would expect to stay quiet.

 

[DaveC426913]

You are taking it out of context. It's not her but "her incompetence to keep the bullying in check" what endangered those kids. If you read the entire thread, I questioned why she didn't report it to parents/school and how kids managed to post this on youtube.

I got all that. It's still not true. She did not endanger those kids. What endangered them was someone posting their actions on YouTube.


Though I grant that, as bus monitor, she has a responsibility to keep the kids in check.

 

[Saitama]

Though I grant that, as bus monitor, she has a responsibility to keep the kids in check.

Agreed here but she looks aged. Maybe she thought that she should leave the children on their own. Even if she complained, the children would have got the punishment and the next time they would try to tease her more, she might have thought that let the children do whatever they want as they will stop after a while when she stops responding. But she couldn't bear the harassment and burst into tears. Its just my opinion.

She should have once tried complaining though.
Its such a pity to see that children don't even have respect for the elders.

 

[Evo]

But if she reported that the kids were making fun of her, would that have been listened to? I doubt it. That has nothing to do with the kids safety. All though I question the bus driver for not telling the obnoxious brats to shut up, perhaps they are afraid to tell them to shut up because of psycho parents "how dare you tell my child to shut up!". We don't know how many restrictions were placed on the driver and monitor. It could be that they're not allowed to react to personal insults.

The parents are to blame for their kid's actions. A properly raised child would not do this. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.

I think all school buses should have audio/video recorders and they should be viewed at least monthly and the parents and kids hauled into the school auditorium and shamed before the entire school district. But that's just me. And it's not just for bullying the bus employees, but bullying of any student.

 

[OmCheeto]

Fact: Average contribution to this campaign is $22
Current total: $642,181

$642,181/$22 = 29,190 people donated.

155,007,000 civilian employees(ref)

155,007,000/29,190 ==> 1 out of 5310 people in America think their job sucks as much as hers, and can totally relate.
Or perhaps, 1 out of 22 middle school teachers.(641,700)

I think middle school teachers should be paid $750,000 a year.

Now if it were obese people donating at the middle school teacher rate, she'd have $78 million in her coffer.(78,000,000)*

Did anyone else watch the whole video? It stuck me as typical middle school behavior.

*No. That was not a math error. 1:22 is the ratio of middle school teachers to donations, $22 was the average donation, and there are 78 million fat adults in America. It was simply a coincidence.

ps. If you are worried about your weight, please go here.

 

[Curious3141]

(Read the Youtube comments and take a drink every time someone makes a comment that makes them sound courageous or righteous for opposing the obviously-appalling behaviour of these kids).

The irony, of course, is that the wantonly racist nature of a lot of those comments speaks of even worse personalities amongst the commenters than the bullying kids in that video.

 

[Borg]

Did anyone else watch the whole video? It stuck me as typical middle school behavior.

I've seen parts of the video and that was my first reaction as well. Bullies are typically cowards acting out in front of a crowd. They won't harass someone who can defend themselves.

 

[256bits]

Originally Posted by DaveC426913

No, she did not put the children's lives in danger. She is not responsible either for the display of behavior, or for its public posting, or for the reaction of the world.

You are taking it out of context. It's not her but "her incompetence to keep the bullying in check" what endangered those kids. If you read the entire thread, I questioned why she didn't report it to parents/school and how kids managed to post this on youtube.

If you read about duties of a bus monitor here's what you will see:

1) Monitors conduct of students on school bus to maintain discipline and safety: Directs loading of students on bus to prevent congestion and unsafe conditions.

http://dot-job-descriptions.careerpl...US-MONITOR.cfm
I expect from a bus monitor to report anything negative happens on the bus to the proper authorities. She is not the one I would expect to stay quiet.

Besides the job description is there any say of how monitors should assess a situation that has a potential of getting out of control, or any mention of pre-job training, like they would have for police or security agents in crowd control. I do not think that any average person would have a clue on how to calm down a bunch of unruly kids such as this. It is noticable that the kid with the camera thought what was going on to the woman was fun and hilarious by being focused only on the bus monitor and not the rest of the kids. That is typical group behavior and it is difficult for an individual to take back control when it has reached that level to an extent that it feeds upon itself. Tagging her with incompetance is going a bit too far I think.

 

[DaveC426913]

That is typical group behavior and it is difficult for an individual to take back control when it has reached that level to an extent that it feeds upon itself. Tagging her with incompetance is going a bit too far I think.

Much as I sympathize with her situation, the more officious side of me notes that it was her job to supervise these kids, and if she couldn't do it, then something's awry.

I imagine the description of the Bus Monitor job has instructions on what to do if the situation on the bus gets out of hand. Certainly at the very least, she should have colluded with the bus driver. Probably stop the bus on the roadside and keep the kids inside until more authority can arrive.

 

[tahayassen]

She wasn't doing her job. That's for sure. If a student was being bullied, then she probably wouldn't do anything to help him/her, even though that's her career.

It's either the school's fault for not giving her proper training. Or it's the school's fault for hiring incapable employees. Like Evo said, the school should put audio/video recorders on the school bus.

 

[256bits]

Dave
taha
Appreciate your comments, but she was not incompetent.
But how would you react if swarmed by a group?
The lady was overwhelmed, by what some would consider criminal behavior, and thankfully she did not show anger that could have unleased other forms of obnoxious behavior from the students, including physical ( one was already touching her )

She wasn't doing her job. That's for sure. If a student was being bullied, then she probably wouldn't do anything to help him/her, even though that's her career.

Probably wouldn't doesn't carry over in your statement. Probably would could also be used with equal tenacity.

Schools are subject to budgets and just saying that they should do this or that is easy. There is two choices to pay for extras - increase the tax rate or take money from some other area - which do you prefer?

This explains more of what the lady was experiencing.

The word "swarm" was first used as a verb in 1380 AD to refer to bees "leaving a hive to start another." Since then, the definition has come a long way, and now refers to a type of group assault that is becoming more and more commonplace.

Although to date there is no legal definition or legislation concerning this particular type of crime, legal experts have identified three common elements of swarmings. They are: (1) actions by a group, (2) against one or several individuals, (3) that incorporate violence, harassment, intimidation and/or the potential for overwhelming force or pressure.

Experts warn that young people may be especially susceptible to participating in swarmings because they have a tendency to identify strongly with their peer group, and are less able to withstand the so-called pack mentality that often takes over when a group attacks. As well, since the youth are sharing responsibility for any heinous acts committed, it makes it easier to carry them out. Essentially, the teens lose a sense of who they are.

There is also evidence to suggest that the larger the crowd that gathers to watch a swarming, the more aggressive the offenders will become. This may make large schools with hundreds of students perfect breeding grounds for group violence.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/crime/youthcrime.html

Certainly at the very least, she should have colluded with the bus driver. Probably stop the bus on the roadside and keep the kids inside until more authority can arrive.

Absolutely. Being nice does not always have a favourable outcome.

 

[Number Nine]

She wasn't doing her job. That's for sure. If a student was being bullied, then she probably wouldn't do anything to help him/her, even though that's her career.

It's either the school's fault for not giving her proper training. Or it's the school's fault for hiring incapable employees. Like Evo said, the school should put audio/video recorders on the school bus.

Employees usually have strict limits on the actions they can take in situations like this; I really can't imagine that she had the authority to do anything beyond telling the students off and reporting their actions to the school upon arrival. By the sounds of it, she certainly wasn't receiving any support from the bus driver (he did nothing during the video). It's an unfortunate truth that many schools have chronic bullying problems and no policies in place that allow anyone to actually do anything about them.

 

[wuliheron]

Statistics[6] from the 2007 WBI-Zogby survey show that 13% of U.S. employees report being bullied currently, 24% say they have been bullied in the past and an additional 12% say they have witnessed workplace bullying. Nearly half of all American workers (49%) report that they have been affected by workplace bullying, either being a target themselves or having witnessed abusive behavior against a co-worker.
Wikipedia

The idea that this is merely kids being kids or parents and an old woman not doing her job is patently absurd. Ours is a violent culture where all the popular sports, movies, video games, music, etc. are all violent and bullying is epidemic in even the workplace.

 

[tahayassen]

Dave
taha
Appreciate your comments, but she was not incompetent.
But how would you react if swarmed by a group?

I would probably react the same way the woman did.

The lady was overwhelmed, by what some would consider criminal behavior, and thankfully she did not show anger that could have unleased other forms of obnoxious behavior from the students, including physical ( one was already touching her )

Yes, I'm glad she didn't show anger either.

Probably wouldn't doesn't carry over in your statement. Probably would could also be used with equal tenacity.

Schools are subject to budgets and just saying that they should do this or that is easy. There is two choices to pay for extras - increase the tax rate or take money from some other area - which do you prefer?

An audio recorder doesn't cost much. From where I live, every classroom in a middle has a LCD projector and a TV. I'm not sure if it's the same case over there, but the schools that do have money need to put audio recorders on buses.

This explains more of what the lady was experiencing.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/crime/youthcrime.html

Absolutely. Being nice does not always have a favourable outcome.

What is a bus monitor's job description? Does it not include stopping bullies? Or reporting it to authorities? The kids are in the wrong, but so are the woman and bus driver in my opinion. Letting those hooligans go unpunished is not about being nice. It's about not doing your job.

She should've talked to the principal. The principal could have called each one of those kids one by one. Doesn't work? The principal phones the parents. Still doesn't work? The kids get suspended. There are punishments for those who refuse the law.

 

[EngnrMatt]

I agree with Evo. People don't realize it, but schools don't have the power they used to. The woman may have been scolded by the staff or school board for reporting that a couple of middle-schoolers harassed her.

On top of that, anyone who criticizes her needs to step in her shoes first. It is apparent that the old lady had sensitive feelings; would you have had all your wits about you during an emotional breakdown? Who knows how long it took the poor woman to recover from the brutality of their comments...

Whats more appaling, is that the childrens' parents obviously oppose decent parenting and are refusing to punish their children. It may be illegal to beat the devil out of a kid who misbehaves in such a manner (very unfortunately), but I don't believe there is a law against publicly humiliating your child to the point where their self-esteem is lower than the old lady's and where they can't show their face in public. That's my two cents anyway...

 

[256bits]

tahayassen
All good points.

 

[rootX]

I agree with Evo. People don't realize it, but schools don't have the power they used to. The woman may have been scolded by the staff or school board for reporting that a couple of middle-schoolers harassed her.

Assume that she reported the incident and she got scolded. Then, the school administration is encouraging bullying not tackling it. People who misbehaved in front of her likely also bullied other children of their ages. If the bus monitor see their misbehavior and doesn't report, she is only signaling that it is normal to bully others. Thanks to the kids that they posted it publicly and video got media attention, if the kids hadn't who would have stepped into correct these children behavior?

On top of that, anyone who criticizes her needs to step in her shoes first. It is apparent that the old lady had sensitive feelings; would you have had all your wits about you during an emotional breakdown? Who knows how long it took the poor woman to recover from the brutality of their comments...

If I were in her shoes, I would have tried to report it to the authorities. If the video still went up, it were the authorities to blame for not acting enough.

 

[rootX]

What is a bus monitor's job description? Does it not include stopping bullies? Or reporting it to authorities? The kids are in the wrong, but so are the woman and bus driver in my opinion. Letting those hooligans go unpunished is not about being nice. It's about not doing your job.

She should've talked to the principal. The principal could have called each one of those kids one by one. Doesn't work? The principal phones the parents. Still doesn't work? The kids get suspended. There are punishments for those who refuse the law.

I fully agree. Even if it's not in their powers to stop bullying, they can do everyone a favor by reporting the unruly children to those who can stop bullying.

 

[DaveC426913]

Appreciate your comments, but she was not incompetent.

How do you know that?

I am not suggesting incompetence of the sort that loses someone their job. I am simply suggesting that, if her job is well-defined, and she was unable to execute it, then she couldn't do her job. What does procedure say a bus monitor is supposed to do in such a situation?

As a matter of fact, it is entirely possible that there is no procedure for such a situation, in which case the school board is culpable.

 

[gravenewworld]

How exactly are you supposed to control animals that attack in a pack like that? Yell at them? They'll just laugh at you. Write them up with a pink slip two days before classes are over and tell the principal? They'll just laugh at you again, and school administrators wouldn't care. There are tons of videos of obnoxious teenagers out there provoking adults into getting into shouting matches with them because the kids know you can't do anything about it except yell, and they just laugh and provoke even further.

What they really need is the fear of god instilled into them with a good *** whooping, right in front of everyone where they can be publically humiliated and videos can be made of them crying while it happens so it can be put onto youtube. I'd guarantee you they'd quit being brats then. But you aren't allowed to touch someone else's precious little angel Johnny because he's 'special' to his parents without being sued.

 

[DaveC426913]

How exactly are you supposed to control animals that attack in a pack like that?

Consider the implications of your question: Are you suggesting a bunch of tweens on a bus are literally uncontrollable by any means? That would imply that the act of putting them on the bus in the first place is putting them and everyone on the bus in harm's way.

Of course they are controllable. It's a question of having adequate procedures in place. If the procedures are not in place, then someone is seriously negligent in looking after their safety.


A quite simple procedure (and one I'll bet is in place) is:
Pull the bus over. Call the authorities.

 

[wuliheron]

The woman makes $15,000.oo a year and ya'll debate procedures and whether she is doing her job or not. I feel so sorry for you if you think it is so hard to find competent slaves and masters these days.