Have men been priced out of the dating market?

[Ivan Seeking]

Perhaps the real value in this discussion is in seeing how many women view themselves?

 

[xxChrisxx]

Perhaps the real value in this discussion is [STRIKE]in seeing how many women view themselves?[/STRIKE] non-existent.

Fixed it for you.

 

[HeLiXe]

Fixed it for you.

 

[Abscissas]

From what I've observed women usually don't tend to care about looks it mainly comes down to confidence, beauty is in the eye of the beholder as was once said. Money and power give the illusion that they attract women but what comes with money and power is a comfort of life which is accompanied with confidence. Just from what I've observed

 

[Kholdstare]

Perhaps the real value in this discussion is in seeing how many women view [STRIKE]themselves[/STRIKE] their enormous entitlement for their perfect date?

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Lavabug]

I think a lot of this preference for people with apparent confidence and looks is a lot like eating sweet-tasting foods without reading the nutrition facts.

For example, most people wouldn't eat a dish of ropa vieja because it looks horrible, but it actually tastes very good (IMO) and is very good for you, and will leave you satisfied far longer than pizza. A grown-up that cares about the content and long-term effects will make the right decision, while most people would go for the junk food.

So IMO if you aren't getting attention from most women it's probably for the better, it's better not to attract those types. At least that's what I tell myself to combat the loneliness. Unless you just want sex, then this is not the way to go. Jack up on steroids and follow Neil Strauss' book to the letter if you want quick results.

 

[Abscissas]

Very good point but ropa vieja is my **** I'll eat it for days never been much into junk food , doesn't excite my taste buds as real food does. That being said I'd rather have a women with complexity and a personality rather then processed and frozen and mass produced looks are just a side factor, but like I said before bueaty is in the eye of the beholder just for me its mainly about personality but I love me some Colombian women ^.^

 

[Jamin2112]

From what I've observed women usually don't tend to care about looks it mainly comes down to confidence.

Really? Because all the good-looking women who I know have tall, handsome boyfriends or husbands. With of course the exception of ugly rich guys, but we all know that money is the great equalizer for everything in life.

 

[Abscissas]

With that money comes confidence because they don't have to worry about all the stress of life that is induced from money for example having to pay bills how your going to eat financial stability tends to put the mind at ease and gives people more time to feel themselves and build up self esteem , which women like but in the current society we live in tall dark handsome seems to be in right now but a couple hundred years ago women where wearing corsets because having a tiny waist was beautiful styles change as well as what people like as towards physical appearance but what hasn't seemed to change is that if your posture and attitude is confident women flock to you, of course there is the except of gold diggers and kanye west already covered that.

 

[MarneMath]

I think the general theme of finding a women is wrong. There are thousands of women out there and if you are willing to pretend to be someone for a few months, you can score as often as you like. I think what people want is something genuine where they don't have to pretend.

It is probably very true that the out of shape sit behind the computer all day nerd is never going to get with the fitness model who enjoys going to the beach and hiking. I suspect that has less to do with physical attraction and more with the simple fact that they are just different people with different hopes and goals in life.

I've stated it here before, in my experience, a woman will find a guy more attractive over time the more in common you end up having with that person. Some guys will come here and say, "well I'm a nice guy and it never works but when I'm a jerk women notice me!" I've noticed that this often translates into "when I'm a nice guy, I never let my intention clears and I cry myself to sleep because she dates jerks and never notices me, but when I'm a jerk I let her know where I stand and how straight forward I can be and it does work!" Imagine that.

I met my wife in a library and then the next day reported to Ranger school. I met her again the day after I graduated. The first thing I said to her was "hey weren't you that girl in the library who was falling in love with me?" Her reply, "I think you've mistaken me for the clams on display"

Anyway, in summary, be yourself, find someone who works for you, and let you intention be clear. When you don't put the effort to meet someone, don't complain about how hard it is :].

 

[zoobyshoe]

Really? Because all the good-looking women who I know have tall, handsome boyfriends or husbands.

Tall, handsome, and insecure? Is it the tall and handsome that's attracting or the confidence? I see a dozen tall, good looking guys a day wandering around alone and acting sketchy or insecure. No telling what's eating them, but women sense it and avoid them.

 

[Lavabug]

Tall, handsome, and insecure? Is it the tall and handsome that's attracting or the confidence? I see a dozen tall, good looking guys a day wandering around alone and acting sketchy or insecure. No telling what's eating them, but women sense it and avoid them.

Perhaps I am biased, but I happen to think appearing insecure/not walking about with one's chest and chin high or similar confidence-exuding body language doesn't say anything about their suitability as a long-term partner. Anyone can train themselves to strut or maintain eye contact. I can think of many reasons for this appearance, but none of them are a direct impediment for being a caring partner or responsible father, which is what a lot of older frustrated single women complain about not being able to find. Like Ivan says, their 6th sense hasn't helped them much if more than half of the time they make partner choices they regret. Don't judge a book by its cover.

Observant men also have a 6th sense in detecting spoiled women with apparent entitlement issues/unreasonable expectations. Many may get the idea (erroneously at times, but rarely in my experience) that some of them think they're too good to give them a minute of their time.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Really? Because all the good-looking women who I know have tall, handsome boyfriends or husbands. With of course the exception of ugly rich guys, but we all know that money is the great equalizer for everything in life.

Oh well.

 

[Travis_King]

So the OP is looking (exclusively, it seems) for smart, good looking, confident women, and is surprised that they are looking for similar traits in potential partners as well?

 

[Evo]

Any belief in magic spidey senses is simply self delusion. What we are really talking about is judging someone with no knowledge of who that person really is. It is no different than impulse buying - something that marketing companies target directly in women.

I've heard many stories about women who thought their future husband was a jerk when they first met. And with a 50% divorce rate and 70% of divorces initiated by women, it would seem that their spidey senses were in error at least half of the time when they liked a man enough to fall in love.

Don't underestimate spidey senses just because you don't have them. Most divorces among people I know of resulted from the couple growing apart in their likes and dislikes as they matured. Spidey senses can't predict the future but they can see the red flags.

 

[StrayCatalyst]

The sort of women who look at men as commercial entities, you wouldn't want to date anyway - especially if you're what they would consider a "good catch". I've never tried online dating, and don't plan to. I'm neither rich nor handsome, but I've never had difficulties in finding friends or partners, as I'm not looking for wealthy supermodels, or pretty goldbrickers in search of a sugar daddy. Keep in mind that personals ads are as deceptive as possible, as people are trying to market themselves to snag a partner that's likely to be as dishonest and desperate as they are...

 

[Bacle2]

My un-scientific opinion:

I have come to believe women are equipped with a sixth sense.
Women can detect pretense, psychological barriers, and even self deception as if they were scents. The unfortunate ones are attracted to it.

If you find that women scatter when you enter a room, it's probably something inside you and not them. old jim

So , what is it then with all the (very many) women who date, or are attracted-to, convicts--convicted murderes, rapists even?

Still, there seems to be some data agreeing with Jamma2112; it seems it is mostly
rich people who are marrying each other nowadays. The percentage of people marrying
correlates pretty-well with income.

 

[Evo]

So , what is it then with all the (very many) women who date, or are attracted-to, convicts--convicted murderes, rapists even?

Because they grew up around these types of people and is all they can find or feel they are worthy of?

Still, there seems to be some data agreeing with Jamma2112; it seems it is mostly
rich people who are marrying each other nowadays. The percentage of people marrying
correlates pretty-well with income.

Where did you get this data? Please post it.

 

[Lavabug]

Spidey senses can't predict the future but they can see the red flags.

Obviously not, given the number of women with abusive partners and spouses who endure violence sometimes for years before they end up getting murdered.

 

[Evo]

Obviously not, given the number of women with abusive partners and spouses who endure violence sometimes for years before they end up getting murdered.

Not all women have spidey senses. (You realize the spidey senses is a bit of humor, right? Some people call it common sense and an ability to notice when things aren't right.

 

[Lavabug]

Not all women have spidey senses. (You realize the spidey senses is a bit of humor, right?)

I wasn't sure how serious you were being, but the idea of feminine 6th sense is one I find many people do take very seriously (more than horoscopes).

 

[WannabeNewton]

If unimaginably beautiful women only married rich men, then why is evo married to me? BOOM CHECK AND MATE

 

[micromass]

Because they grew up around these types of people and is all they can find or feel they are worthy of.

Is this your personal opinion?? I would be very interested if there was some qualified research to answer this question.

 

[micromass]

If women only married rich men, then why is evo married to me? BOOM CHECK AND MATE

Let's use logic on this one:

Woman ##\wedge## married ##\Rightarrow## man is rich.

You are not rich, so the implication fails. So either you are married (which you are) or evo is not a woman. This proves conclusively that evo's gender is not what we thought it was.

 

[George Jones]

Really? Because all the good-looking women who I know have tall, handsome boyfriends or husbands. With of course the exception of ugly rich guys, but we all know that money is the great equalizer for everything in life.

So, my wife is not good-looking. The (equivalent) contrapositive of

good-looking married woman --> tall handsome husband

is

not tall handsome husband --> not good-looking married woman

I am 5'5" and my wife thinks that my nose is too large and too crooked for me to be handsome.

[edit]Didn't see micromass's logical analysis until after I posted.[/edit]

 

[Bacle2]

Because they grew up around these types of people and is all they can find or feel they are worthy of.

Where did you get this data? Please post it.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/marriage-is-for-rich-people/

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/jobs/posts/2012/02/03-jobs-greenstone-looney

See the subsection "Income , Marriage Rates and Men"

 

[micromass]

So, my wife is not good-looking.

If I get $100 from you, then your wife will never know (from me) that you said this.

 

[Bacle2]

I wasn't sure how serious you were being, but the idea of feminine 6th sense is one I find many people do take very seriously (more than horoscopes).

Only women born in Pisces with Leo rising have good spidey senses. (My psychic told me.)

 

[Evo]

Is this your personal opinion?? I would be very interested if there was some qualified research to answer this question.

Yes, it's my own opinion, sorry. That doesn't mean that females from good homes can't be stupid or make bad choices, but it is much easier for a girl that grew up in a bad area/situation to feel that she doesn't deserve or can do better. They grew up accepting it. I see that around here, there are poor small towns around here and those kids tend to stay and marry within their own group (of course there are always exceptions), the girls that grow up in the "gang" areas stay and marry there. I guess looking at years of census records would show if what I've observed is mostly true or false.

 

[Lavabug]

A general statement about prosperous people getting married more and having more children than the poor and middle class is not hard to believe in the 1st world (probably the other way around in the 3rd world), and is a very real statistic in my country (Spain).

The ever-decreasing natality-rate in my land is in the news every other day and correlates well with the disappearance of the middle class and widening of the rich-poor gap.

Particularizing the idea to males and females is harder, but historically men are always expected to be the prime breadwinner. Any man who doesn't make significantly more than his potential partners is deemed unsuccessful and less of a man, undesirable to women unless they are poorer than he is. Men also have to put up with unfair gender roles.

 

[George Jones]

Men also have to put up with unfair gender roles.

In general, I think women face women discrimination, but I think this is correct for some things. For example,

If I get $100 from you, then your wife will never know (from me) that you said this.

It is okay for my wife to talk in public about my large, crooked nose, but, in public, if I say ...

 

[micromass]

Yes, it's my own opinion, sorry. That doesn't mean that females from good homes can't be stupid or make bad choices, but it is much easier for a girl that grew up in a bad area/situation to feel that she doesn't deserve or can do better. They grew up accepting it. I see that around here, there are poor small towns around here and those kids tend to stay and marry within their own group (of course there are always exceptions), the girls that grow up in the "gang" areas stay and marry there. I guess looking at years of census records would show if what I've observed is mostly true or false.

Makes sense. I think your right about what you say, but I was just interested in some formal research on the subject.

 

[Evo]

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/marriage-is-for-rich-people/

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/jobs/posts/2012/02/03-jobs-greenstone-looney

See the subsection "Income , Marriage Rates and Men"

Thanks, interesting, a quick google seems to place the outcome on the extremely low marriage rate among blacks, with some reports claiming as much as 70% unmarried.

Here is just a sample article.

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...nd-its-out-wedlock-birth-rate-soaring-fraying

 

[Bacle2]

Thanks, interesting, a quick google seems to place the outcome on the extremely low marriage rate among blacks, with some reports claiming as much as 70% unmarried.

Here is just a sample article.

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...nd-its-out-wedlock-birth-rate-soaring-fraying

Charles Murray ( of "Bell Curve" fame/infamy) attributes it to "post-modernism" of sorts, in his latest book, claiming that (surprise, given his conservatism) it results from an overall loss/abandonment of traditional values ( values which, he says, have not been abandoned by the richest) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_Apart:_The_State_of_White_America,_1960–2010

or:

http://www.booktv.org/Program/13161/quotComing+Apart+The+State+of+White+America+19602010quot.aspx

 

[jim hardy]

So , what is it then with all the (very many) women who date, or are attracted-to, convicts--convicted murderes, rapists even?

Those are what I called 'the unfortunate ones. '
Something attracts them toward destructive people.
Perhaps a feeling of need to rescue, or the behavior is reminiscent of a parent, or low self worth, or just easy pickin's, or self flagellation, who knows?

Have you never said to yourself "I should have listened to that little voice inside" ?

But that's behavioral science not physics. Melodie Beattie and Marianne Williamson are two popular authors in that field.
Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned it in PF. There are plenty of psychology forums out there .