Handing in my Sci Fi Fan Badge

[DaveC426913]

I was just browsing the Beloved stories from when you were much younger thread and began thinking about the beloved stories that aren't beloved by me.

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried. I literally kept falling asleep.

Halfway into Foundation, still wondering when the backstory exposition would be done and it would move on to the actual story, I realized, this is the story, and it's not going to spontaneously sprout characters and a plot.

And now, in my third crushing betrayal, I could not finish The Left Hand of Darkness. Virtually the entire story seems to be comprised of pre-meal political chit chat in residence after residence.

 

[hmmm27]

I was just browsing the Beloved stories from when you were much younger thread and began thinking about the beloved stories that aren't beloved by me.

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried. I literally kept falling asleep.

Ditto : it might be one of things you have to take a run at, or it could have been age-based impatience on the reader's side. I (think I) read it all the way through, but IIRC there was quite a bit of nodding off. Same problem with Lord of the Rings, first time around. Also, hate to say it, 2001 : I found Clarke a difficult read at the time.

Halfway into Foundation, still wondering when the backstory exposition would be done and it would move on to the actual story, I realized, this is the story, and it's not going to spontaneously sprout characters and a plot.

I enjoyed the original trilogy ; the follow-up trilogy, not so much (or, at all).

And now, in my third crushing betrayal, I could not finish The Left Hand of Darkness. Virtually the entire story seems to be comprised of pre-meal political chit chat in residence after residence.

Never read anything by LeGuin ; glad to hear I didn't miss much.

I've ended up balked at trying to read Edgar Rice Burroughs' offerings : the language is so archaic. One of my back-burner projects is getting aholdt of all the (Baum) Oz books, but I'm afraid that might present the same issue.

Oh, and while The Dark Tower made for a nifty made-for-TV movie, the books are truly abysmal.

Fortunately, decent SF doesn't seem to be going anywhere, despite the genre expanding into mainstream.

 

[jim mcnamara]

I stopped reading SF about 40 years ago. A few months back I "kindled" Alfred Bester's "The stars My destination". I loved it in 1950-something. Not now. "The demolished man" won Hugo I think.

 

[Frabjous]

I made it through the first two Dune novels. They went real bad afterwords. I remember reading somewhere that Dune was the worst written great SF novel.

I had no issues with the first Foundation trilogy, but I did not love it.

I read Left Hand of Darkness in elementary school. I only have a vague positive memory.

I liked parts of LOTR. I preferred the Hobbit/Silmarillion/Unfinished Tales.

I did Burroughs in elementary. Tarzen didn’t do much for me, but I loved John Carter.

I read the first Oz novel in my 30’s. It didn’t do anything for me. Avoid the novel Wicked at all costs.

I read Bester in my 20‘s and liked him.

My goto author was Zelazny, although I haven’t picked him up in a decade. Lord of Light at one time was my favorite novel. He had some great short stories also.

 

[hmmm27]

I remember reading somewhere that Dune was the worst written great SF novel.

From what I remember, it could have made a decent 400 page novel.

I liked parts of LOTR. I preferred the Hobbit/Silmarillion/Unfinished Tales.

I think I read it too young ; did enjoy it later, but never got the hang of which proper-noun-beginning-with-a-'G' was which, leading to getting more than a little bogged down, in places.

I read the first Oz novel in my 30’s. It didn’t do anything for me. Avoid the novel Wicked at all costs.

I probably enjoyed the original more, in my 0's.

I found Maguire's modern Oz trilogy (Wikipedia informs me it's now a quadrology, yay) quite enjoyable.

My goto author was Zelazny, although I haven’t picked him up in a decade. Lord of Light at one time was my favorite novel.

I'll put that on the list ; seen him on the store shelves for decades ; just one of the many I've not gotten around to, yet.

I stopped reading SF about 40 years ago. A few months back I "kindled" Alfred Bester's "The stars My destination". I loved it in 1950-something. Not now. "The demolished man" won Hugo I think.

Heinlein's 'juvies' (1940's-mid60's) - the books that hooked me on SF in the first place - I now find much too short and written in too-large print (stylistically, that is. Literal large-print is appreciated, these days). Growing up sucks.

 

[Janus]

I was just browsing the Beloved stories from when you were much younger thread and began thinking about the beloved stories that aren't beloved by me.

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried. I literally kept falling asleep.

Halfway into Foundation, still wondering when the backstory exposition would be done and it would move on to the actual story, I realized, this is the story, and it's not going to spontaneously sprout characters and a plot.

And now, in my third crushing betrayal, I could not finish The Left Hand of Darkness. Virtually the entire story seems to be comprised of pre-meal political chit chat in residence after residence.

Dune: Read it, wasn't impressed. Gave it a second chance years later; still didn't see what all the fuss was about.
Foundation was okay. I think its biggest appeal arouse from the fact that it was originally released as a serial in a SF mag. Asimov actually got tired of writing it himself. (He had to start each installment with a quick "our story so far...", for anyone who hadn't read the early ones and that in of itself became a chore.
The plot does thicken somewhat in the second book, with the introduction of the "Mule".

Just recently read The Left hand of Darkness. After hearing so much praise for it, I was a bit disapointed.

 

[Keith_McClary]

I stopped reading SF about 40 years ago.

The "Golden Age of SF" was over.

 

[Rive]

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried.

I won't take that as betrayal: Dune is simply more like a fantasy story (with some technology in the setup) than a real sci-fi. And the later attempt to mix it into a bigger, real sci-fi just made it into some kind of weird hybrid hard to digest.

Ps.: guess not all books for everyone. I tend to find many new hyped sci-fi stories just fancy word salads. Especially if it's about quantum or such. Usage of the word 'quantum' is not an excuse for lacking talent or science background in sci-fi...

 

[Bandersnatch]

THIS IS THE SPACE POLICE! HOW DARE YOUSE DISRESPECT THE LEFT HAND OF DARKNESS?? HAND IN YOUR BADGES NOW!

More seriously though, I suppose much can be chalked up to hitting the right, impressionable, moment in one's life. I read all three as a young adult, many times, and loved them to pieces (Foundation maybe less so). By now they're probably so much coloured by nostalgia, that I'd still enjoy them upon rereading.
On the other hand, I only got exposed to Heinlein in my late twenties. Starship Troopers and Stranger in a Strange Land, IIRC. I found them juvenile and shallow. Starship Troopers, in particular, I read after watching Verhoeven's adaptation, and couldn't get over how the author actually took it all seriously. I felt embarrassed for him.

 

[DaveC426913]

Starship Troopers, in particular, I read after watching Verhoeven's adaptation, and couldn't get over how the author actually took it all seriously. I felt embarrassed for him.

Wait. You mean R.A.H. took it seriously? No. You mean the author of the adaptation took the source material seriously.

Exactly my reaction. The last time I had felt so physically, uncomfortably squirming in my seat watching a train wreck on the screen was Showgirls. (And at the time I had no idea they were the same director.)

I have since realized they were farces - intended to be that way - and my discomfort has settled, but I still think it's a terrible directorial style. (Strangely, it was brilliantly done in RoboCop, and Total Recall is in my top 50 films of all time)

 

[hutchphd]

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried. I literally kept falling asleep.

Me too. I now no longer feel like an outcast!

A few short stories I do remember vividly (which at my age is unusual)
The Nine Billion Names of God Clark
Fishing Season Sheckley
Blowups Happen Heinlein

Oh and the guy who wrote The Martian (which I did enjoy) should pay royalties to Heinlein's estate.

 

[hmmm27]

Wait. You mean R.A.H. took it seriously?

Considering he passed away a decade or so before the release of the film, probably not.

Oh and the guy who wrote The Martian (which I did enjoy) should pay royalties to Heinlein's estate.

For... ? (Bear in mind that while I'm sure I've read everything by Heinlein, I'm sure I haven't read anything, recently).

 

[hutchphd]

The style was absolutely Heinlein. And the attention to technical detail. Did you read the book? He does mention Heinlein maybe in the preface I think. I don't own a copy. I haven't read Heinlein for thirty years of course!

 

[hmmm27]

Never read it (The Martian). Saw the movie ; it was okay. There's a couple of authors whose style gets compared to Heinlein.

Last RAH I read was Between Planets (picked it up in a used bookstore last year ; first RAH I'd ever read (not last year)) : talking dinosaurs, space travel, and decoder rings : can't beat it.

 

[DaveC426913]

The Martian (the book) was great. Loved it. And I read it before it became all the rage, certainly before it became a movie.

 

[cybernetichero]

I was just browsing the Beloved stories from when you were much younger thread and began thinking about the beloved stories that aren't beloved by me.

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried. I literally kept falling asleep.

Halfway into Foundation, still wondering when the backstory exposition would be done and it would move on to the actual story, I realized, this is the story, and it's not going to spontaneously sprout characters and a plot.

And now, in my third crushing betrayal, I could not finish The Left Hand of Darkness. Virtually the entire story seems to be comprised of pre-meal political chit chat in residence after residence.

I read and loved Foundation back in my 20s but a recent attempt at a re-read was a flop. Part of it was as you say, the relentless infodumping but also the anachronisms involved in reading something written before so much of science changed in the post-war decades. Incidentally the same problem stopped me from continuing to attempt Rama II. I don't want to spend chapters and chapters reading about the back stories of people I haven't even met yet.

 

[Dr Wu]

Having recently re-read 'Dune' after a gap of several decades, I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it, despite initial reservations. Yes, its characterisation suffers in places - a Hammer Horror-style stage villain like the Baron Harkonnen still has my suspension of disbelief hitting the floor. The world building, on the other hand, remains singularly impressive - comparable to that of 'The Lord of the Rings', according to the blurb by Arthur C Clarke printed on my edition of the book. The knife-fight between Paul Atreides and Feyd-Rautha also continues to hold up after all these years. (Interesting to compare that set-piece action with the [final] duel between Harry Potter and Lord Vortemort - Harry constantly goading and belittling Vortemort, while Paul rattles Feyd-Rautha with his stealthy silences). The spice in 'Dune', of course, could have come straight from the pages of Oz.

As for the earlier 'Foundation Trilogy', the low part for me remains the second half of the first volume - unrelentingly turgid. It's no wonder many first-time readers don't feel inclined to go any further. And that's a shame because the rest of the trilogy holds up pretty well on the whole. Of course, it's period-piece SF by today's standards, Gibben's 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' rebooted as historial SF, circa 1940s pulp fiction. And that's how I read it today. True, it doesn't plumb the astro-metaphysical depths, like 'Star Maker' by Olaf Stabledon, for instance; but it does have a genuinely intriguing character in the Mule going for it (I dread to think how the forthcoming TV series of TFT will recreate the Mule on the screen. Let it not be some square-jawed superhero type. . . anything but that. . . please!)

I also rate 'The Martian' - marginally preferring the film version, here. The amount of swearing in the book (which I also own) continues to irk, nonetheless. People swear, of course. It's part of life, and there's enough happening in the book to make its lead characters want to swear like troopers. But there's an art to replicating profane language on the page. Beyond a certain point it loses its impact, becomes deadening, like adjectival bloatware in general. Zzzzz.

 

[cybernetichero]

Jack Vance is my favourite SF author of all time but, now that I have read pretty much all he wrote that I can get my hands on I have moved onto writers who give the same wordplay even if they aren't in the same genre. So I have (temporarily) stepped away from SF to read P.G. Wodehouse, Raymond Chandler and La Morte D'Arthur (the two volume Penguin Classics version). Maybe you just need a holiday.

 

[BWV]

Dune is fantasy, not science fiction - not a single element of science and a whole lotta reworking of old mythologies.

Try Alaistar Reynolds

 

[Algr]

Dune
Harley Quinn
Mork and Mindy
Star Wars
Babylon 5

All Sci -Fi is the same.

 

[Mark44]

I stopped reading SF about 40 years ago.

For me it was probably about 50 years ago. I read Dune and several Heinlein novels, including "Stranger in a Strange Land," and quite a few other authors (Clifford Simak comes to mind). Some of the most interesting to me were Arthur C. Clarke short stories.

 

[Janus]

Dune
Harley Quinn
Mork and Mindy
Star Wars
Babylon 5

All Sci -Fi is the same.

I'll have to disagree. There is a difference between stories just given an SF setting, and those where the SF idea is essential to the plot.
A lot of Sf in mass media fits the first model. The basic story could still be told in a completely different setting.

The second model is different.
Let's use the example of teleportation. The first model just uses it as a means to get characters from place to place quickly. The second model might look at what effect this type of technology would have on society.

If you could step into a booth, dial up a location and get there instantly, would cities become antiquated? ( Cities developed sprawling suburbs because the car made it easier to commute. Would teleportation cause them to disperse completely?)
What happens if you could leave a room of crowded people, jump into a teleport booth, transport yourself halfway around the world, shoot someone, teleport back, and then walk back into the room, all in the time it would taken you to use the restroom? Just saying you were at a party at the time would not be enough to establish an alibi.

Now these aren't my ideas, but just a couple of the issues that Larry Niven addressed when he considered the idea.

 

[Algr]

I'll have to disagree.

You are supposed to disagree.

 

[cybernetichero]

I'll have to disagree. There is a difference between stories just given an SF setting, and those where the SF idea is essential to the plot.
A lot of Sf in mass media fits the first model. The basic story could still be told in a completely different setting.

The second model is different.
Let's use the example of teleportation. The first model just uses it as a means to get characters from place to place quickly. The second model might look at what effect this type of technology would have on society.

If you could step into a booth, dial up a location and get there instantly, would cities become antiquated? ( Cities developed sprawling suburbs because the car made it easier to commute. Would teleportation cause them to disperse completely?)
What happens if you could leave a room of crowded people, jump into a teleport booth, transport yourself halfway around the world, shoot someone, teleport back, and then walk back into the room, all in the time it would taken you to use the restroom? Just saying you were at a party at the time would not be enough to establish an alibi.

Now these aren't my ideas, but just a couple of the issues that Larry Niven addressed when he considered the idea.

If the teleporter booth has something like a key stroke log or a search memory then it would record the trip and your alibi collapses. I'm not arguing with your main point about the difference between SF and something dressed in sf clothing but in your police procedural dressed as sf the trail of evidence isn't necessarily broken.

 

[DaveC426913]

If the teleporter booth has something like a key stroke log or a search memory then it would record the trip and your alibi collapses.

Record what trip, exactly?

See, you're starting at the wrong end of the investigation - assuming they've already got leads. And that the perp is dumb enough to not cover his tracks.

The problem with the teleporter is that your suspect list goes from thousands of nearby strangers-with-opportunity to 7 billion (or more) strangers-with-opportunity.

It means, all other factors aside, the investigation is already 6 orders of magnitude harder before the body is even cold.

 

[OmCheeto]

The Martian (the book) was great. Loved it. And I read it before it became all the rage, certainly before it became a movie.

Have you read Snow Crash? Evo and Char.limit recommended it to me about 10 years ago. I'm still waiting for the movie. Excellent book.

 

[cybernetichero]

Record what trip, exactly?

See, you're starting at the wrong end of the investigation - assuming they've already got leads. And that the perp is dumb enough to not cover his tracks.

The problem with the teleporter is that your suspect list goes from thousands of nearby strangers-with-opportunity to 7 billion (or more) strangers-with-opportunity.

It means, all other factors aside, the investigation is already 6 orders of magnitude harder before the body is even cold.

True but in that case why does he need an alibi. An alibi implies you expect to need it. Also who's having parties in a milieu where teleporting assassins can appear at any moment? Everyone would be cowering in Faraday cages or getting weaponed up.
Anyway, I agree with your point that there is a difference between SF and other genres dressed up as SF. Just seen an ad for something called Operation Rainfall which I might see but definitely falls into the latter category I ween and something like The Martian or Arrival.

There is an Alec Guinness film called The Man in the White Suit which is my go to example of "a fictional narrative derived from a scientific premise" though almost nobody describes it as SF and those making it probably didn't see it that way either.

 

[DaveC426913]

Have you read Snow Crash?

I did.
It was ... a book I read.

 

[Mikestone]

I think I was lucky with the Foundation series, in that I read it in reverse order. I found Second Foundation when I was about eleven, thenF oundation and Empire a bit later and Foundation last of all. As I recall I found Foundation the weakest of the three, only mildly interesting compared to the others.

I quite liked Starship Troopers, but not particularly as sf. With a modest mount of rewriting it could have been set in Korea. In general I liked Heinlein's early work, but fel he went downhill rapidly post--1960, theough Friday and Job weren't too bad.

Dtto with Clarke. I liked his stories up to and incuding A Fall of Moondust, but after a long stretch of writing mostly non-fiction, I feel he lost his touch when it came to writing novels. Poul Anderson did better, but even he seemed to flag a bit in later years.

I still read sf, bu not as much as I used to. The authors I liked iin my Youth have all passed on and I've never got int the more recent ones.

 

[Charles Link]

Hopefully I'm not too off-topic here=I haven't read the whole thread in detail=I saw the Sci-Fi movie Chaos Walking yesterday, and it was very good viewing. I would recommend it, if you want to see something entertaining.

 

[stevendaryl]

I was just browsing the Beloved stories from when you were much younger thread and began thinking about the beloved stories that aren't beloved by me.

I could not make it past the first few chapters of Dune, no matter how many times I tried. I literally kept falling asleep.

Halfway into Foundation, still wondering when the backstory exposition would be done and it would move on to the actual story, I realized, this is the story, and it's not going to spontaneously sprout characters and a plot.

And now, in my third crushing betrayal, I could not finish The Left Hand of Darkness. Virtually the entire story seems to be comprised of pre-meal political chit chat in residence after residence.

I think that it's not just science fiction. If you look at any list of the top 100 novels of all time, you're likely to see some titles that you just didn't like.

 

[sandy stone]

I thought "The Left Hand of Darkness" was pretty slow, too. But to me "The Lathe of Heaven" is just stunning.

 

[Astronuc]

Halfway into Foundation, still wondering when the backstory exposition would be done and it would move on to the actual story, I realized, this is the story, and it's not going to spontaneously sprout characters and a plot.

I read the original Foundation trilogy during senior year of high school in an English class (mandatory) with an option of Science Fiction. It was either that or the classic literature course. I was not in fiction at all, since I had a preference for reading history if it wasn't STEM. I read Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, and I think the Martian Chronicles, and Heinlein's Glory Road.

I read the Foundation trilogy out of order, starting with Foundation and Empire, then Foundation, and finally Second Foundation. I enjoyed it, and I was amused by the use of 'nucleics', since I had taken an introductory course in nuclear engineering and electrical engineering. Ultimately, I became a nuclear engineer. I read the rest of the series only about 20 years or so ago.

I enjoyed Glory Road, probably because one of the characters (Star) reminded me of a girl I met during the summer between 11th and 12th grades who matched the description of Star.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_Road

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I also couldn't finish the first Foundation book. The concept was very interesting, but nothing hooked me, so I faded from it. I loved the first few Dune books. The hyper awareness and granular dissection of the moment is not for everyone, but at least at the time of my reading, I was all in.

Ender's Game, Snow Crash and Neuromancer are books I want to reread soon.

 

[pinball1970]

I did.
It was ... a book I read.

That reminds me of a Rimmer line when he is about to leave the red dwarf crew to take his chances with another ship.
His opening line to his colleagues

'I've come to regard you as... people who I met.'

I didn't finish Foundation. I did finish Red Dwarf.
I like to read sword and sorcery and occasionally watch sci fi.