Exploring Misconceptions About the USA

[whozum]

That quote was not even directed towards you.

I know, I was answering on her behalf because I wanted to ask that question.

 

[chound]

Why I started this thread is becoz in the article by Forbes magazine(we had a thread on that) there was a stated that views of many people of America wuz mostly based on Hollywood and other things. I wanted to see how true that statement was. This is not to insult the americans

 

[whozum]

Why I started this thread is becoz in the article by Forbes magazine(we had a thread on that) there was a stated that views of many people of America wuz mostly based on Hollywood and other things. I wanted to see how true that statement was. This is not to insult the americans

It's fine, atleast you asked. What do you think of it?

 

[Pengwuino]

How many are alive because of the UN?

Thats an absolutely impossible question to answer but it is somewhat easy to put a death-toll for the UN's actions based on things like Rwanda or requests for help that were ignored, etc etc.

As for the US, you have said it deserves every bit of bashing and most of the bsahing is "the US is 100% evil, it should burn it hell, etc etc" so if we're deserving it... . And we're the prime funder of the UN, but we don't rule it. Hell, look at the Iraq War. If we ruled over the UN, that would have been a piece of cake to get an actual war resolutions but we only got 1441.

As far as discounting democracies... in a sense I am doing that but its far different then how it works in the UN. We're kind of dealing with 2 different beasts to say the least. In a democratic nation, you have people attempting to get that middle of the road of what the majority thinks so that they can be elected. In the UN, a lot of nations have representatives that indirectly follow this path (sinec they were nominated by people who were elected by the electorate of the nation) but there are a LOT of nations where this is not true. In Iraq for example... the nation had sanctions... and the iraqi representatives and leadership did little to truly lift the sanctions. The people had to have wanted those sanctions off but since its a dictatorship as many nations are, the voice of the peopel did not translate into their representation at teh UN like it does for say, the US or France or Germany or the UK or Australia or any "free nations". So its really 2 different things we're talken about and the farther you get from direct election and representation, the more screwed up the UN or any other organization would become.

If we had the same sstem for say the IMF or WTO... itd be a fiasco but thankfully, they deal in things most people are too perplexed at to have interest in democraticing.

I appologize for calling it an excuse because most of the time i hear that line, i hear it as an excuse not to get rid of him. And I am not sure how i "attacked" you. Was suggesting that you go read about the situation an attack? I seem to get that a lot from people. You suggest that they go read up on a subject and they consider it an attack instead of a suggestion to further their knowledge on a subject.

I think that is why you were so defensive when it came to my suggestion towards the other person in this thread. You see suggestions as attacks and become easily defensive. Please refrain from this lest we want to misconstrue more suggestions as threats

And what are you asking about "is this true?". I can't get off this page of posts in recent history so i can't scroll back far into the conversation.

 

[Pengwuino]

Why I started this thread is becoz in the article by Forbes magazine(we had a thread on that) there was a stated that views of many people of America wuz mostly based on Hollywood and other things. I wanted to see how true that statement was. This is not to insult the americans

It came off as an insult because you said "these facts/lies" which we all probably assumed you meant as "some of these are facts". It would have been helpful if you told us where you were getting this info because i think a few people woudlnt have noticed the connection to Hollywood based on how much US bashing occurs online.

 

[whozum]

The conception of 'attacks' are actually form aggressivenesss that shows up in your post. The fact that you said 'lame' showed that you were getting frustrated, and your bluntness in the post after it showed that you felt that I was uninformed and unadjusted in my opinion.

The UN question was originally rhetorical and intended to stimulate the idea that the UN has done some good.

I really couldn't care less about the outcome of this conversation, this isn't even our thread, but I just want to know the answer to my question that I posed a couple posts ago.

I'm not being defensive, I'm being neutral. Defensive would be trying to justify the actions that you are being aggressive about.

 

[whozum]

This is where blind patriotism takes over logical argument. I'm not demeaning your argument or bashing you personally here, but it is obvious that even in worse come to worse if your argument was beaten time after time and you had nothing left you would still hold onto the US' greatness just because its all you know. I think its true, is it?

1234567890

edit: which was in reference to your post to rosewater.

 

[Pengwuino]

Oh, i already responded to that question. Its impossible to say how many people its "saved". Being dead is easy, your dead, not alive, you all of a sudden don't exist and for a while before that, you weren't dead. Being alive however, impossible to really say much because you could say the UN saved me because I am alive. If we're talken about say... things like african aid or humanitarian things... most of its done country to country and through private organizations like the Red Cross.

And you seem to take bluntness to mean i thought you were uninformed. Simple opinion and not true. I'm just blunt by nature be i twith an intelligently created complex argument or an ameature horribly worded rant or anything in between.

And yes, you are being defensive because for example, you defended the UN when it came to Rwanda.

 

[whozum]

You must have pretty boring arguments to call that a defense. But I really don't see how you answered my question. you didnt even address it.

 

[FredGarvin]

Americans never really watch the BBC so how would that be possible.

Bite your tongue. I watch it quite a bit...well...BBCA anyways.

 

[Pengwuino]

You must have pretty boring arguments to call that a defense. But I really don't see how you answered my question. you didnt even address it.

I thought your questin was how many lives has the UN saved... what in teh world is it? I've already asked...

 

[whozum]

This is where blind patriotism takes over logical argument. I'm not demeaning your argument or bashing you personally here, but it is obvious that even in worse come to worse if your argument was beaten time after time and you had nothing left you would still hold onto the US' greatness just because its all you know. I think its true, is it?

1234567890

edit: which was in reference to your post to rosewater.

kljhkjhkjhjk

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I wonder if any journalists or news organizations have the integrity to do a "What the world thinks about France" or the UK or the Russians or Syrians etc etc.

This was done in Europe. There was some census done on which European people was regarded as the worst. Pretty much everyone voted for France. It doesn't pay to be eccentric and pleasure-loving, I guess.

 

[chound]

It's fine, atleast you asked. What do you think of it?

I guess all people in all countries are the same. Only a few biggies like media govts etc esp. this forum (having americans and anti americans, pls. don't start that not liking only one aspect of the US is not anti - americanism) provide skewed impression of the US. I probably would come there too if I can so that I can earn a lot of money!

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

I don't think there is anything disappointing about high divorce rates; I think it is a healthy sign:
People dare now to stop living under the same roof with someone they are no longer sexually and emotionally interested in.

Good point. Increasing divorce rate is so often portrayed as a negative thing, it's easy to miss what this actually means. People are more free to better themselves. No-one does it for fun; they do it because the marriage doesn't work. End the broken one, start a better one.
Can I say availability of porn is also a healthy sign? Well, what else are all these divorced men going to do?

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

And yes, i am very patriotic (even more so lately thanks to the almost daily rants similar to the OP on this thread) and have not left the nation.

I used to work in a little town you've probably never heard of (I wish I hadn't) called Telford. It's a relatively new town that amalgamated dozens of smaller villages. They erected an indoor shopping centre, or mall, and called it a town centre. Anyway, there are many people in those villages who have never, ever left there. Ever! They refuse to acknowledge there is anything outside their village that would mean anything to them. They love their village, and that's all that matters. Not that I'm drawing comparisons, but... No, okay, I am drawing comparisons. I'd respect a high school student's politics above these people. On the up-side, there surely cannot be an American more oblivious to outside world as one of these guys.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Except those 80 yr old Japanese WWII soldiers that have just emerged from whatever jungle they were hiding in. Sheesh! Sometimes true cowardice requires immense bravery.

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

It came off as an insult because you said "these facts/lies" which we all probably assumed you meant as "some of these are facts". It would have been helpful if you told us where you were getting this info because i think a few people woudlnt have noticed the connection to Hollywood based on how much US bashing occurs online.

a) facts/lies = facts or lies. some of them were facts, such as porn being legal.
b) some people realized from the op that it wasn't meant as an insult and did not represent his own opinion. some did not. it wouldn't have been too hard to predict which regular posters would fall into which of those categories (naming no names...).

 

[chound]

Someone said that I should realize that things shown on TV arent true and I should be studying (lol we Indians are super brilliant that we can study a lot in less time). I know that things shown on TV are mostly false but I wanted to know how much degree of falsehood was shown.
Women being immodest- In the name of westernisation our country too has being producing women whose bras don't tend to stay in their position LOL.
I had looked on divorce always as a bad thing but your arguments make me think.
In India too many parents tend to forget their children(luckily not mine) since both of them are having jobs.
About people using obscene words in India it is usually used only by the poor people.
All countries are examples of "There are no..."
The problem of Music videos touching immodesty is a problem in India too.
Plz don't say that we haven't won oscars since it is american yardstick and does not represent the true world spirit.
About not getting medals in olympics(name an american cricket team who can stand up to the Indian street team), in our country far more importance is given to education and so most sportspersons are left to rot. My friend too who is a good sprinter had to let his talent go waste.
I don't have a better view of another country since US is featured in more place than I can count.
I guess not all americans are as rich as I expected.
I got the impression americans were rude and ill mannered becoz of a few I met.
I accept that no country is perfect(which I didnt say at all) but I got this itch to tell that US is the least perfect country(in terms of foreign policies) LOL.

I guess within a few years after getting my PG degree I'll probably come to US and get a job( I'm not kidding and if anyone with the consulate is present please please please I didnt post the OP it was my brother!)

 

[klusener]

lol, chound, by the time you go, the jobs you will be seeking in the U.S. will be outsourced to India.

 

[FredGarvin]

Well, by the time he does, the outsourced jobs will probably be brought back because of the piss poor performance most Indian companys provide.

 

[russ_watters]

Well, by the time he does, the outsourced jobs will probably be brought back because of the piss poor performance most Indian companys provide.

See: Dell...

 

[BobG]

I guess not all americans are as rich as I expected.

All things are relative.

Compared to the world overall, most Americans are rich. They don't know it because they compare themselves to their next door neighbor, not to someone living in Chad (80% living below poverty line) or Guatemala (75% living below poverty line).

Why are Americans rich? Because they produce more per person than any country in the world, except for Luxembourg (US Gross Domestic Product/per person - around $40,000/yr).

Compared to India? 12% of Americans are below the poverty line while 25% of Indians are below the poverty line. So, it would be natural for people in India to think Americans are rich.

Compared to Europe? Surprising for a country that produces so much, the US has more folks living below the poverty line than most Western European countries.

Compared to Asia? It's really surprising how fast Asian countries have moved up the list in GDP and surprising how much effect that's had on the poorest in the country. Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea having a lower percentage of folks below the poverty line than the US probably isn't that surprising - they're all comparable to European levels. China, Thailand, Malaysia having a lower percentage below the poverty line than the US is surprising. While a lot of Americans criticize the working conditions in the Asian countries taking our jobs, it's actually made dramatic improvements in their living conditions.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html

 

[klusener]

Well, by the time he does, the outsourced jobs will probably be brought back because of the piss poor performance most Indian companys provide.

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2005/06/02/ap2072643.html

yup, all the companies hate what they are receiving from Indian companies, that's why they are beginning to leave in droves.

http://inhome.rediff.com/money/2005/mar/29jobs1.htm

Fred, please utilize your "Nostradamus" skills to notify your companies, seems they are not listening to your advice.

Russ, see Dell?

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=66904

k, I am seeing Dell and I like what I am seeing.

 

[Smurf]

Well, by the time he does, the outsourced jobs will probably be brought back because of the piss poor performance most Indian companys provide.

Well while we're fighting against stereotyping the USA by their media...

 

[klusener]

"Well, by the time he does, the outsourced jobs will probably be brought back because of the piss poor performance most Indian companys provide." - Fred Garvin

‘‘I think India will also represent a great market for us. The business is expanding at a very rapid rate,’’ Dell told employees. ‘‘Certainly the scale of India is pretty awe-inspiring." - Michael Dell

hmmmm... let me think about who I am going to trust...

 

[BobG]

If you asked an American which NFL team they thought would improve more next year, New England or San Francisco, they'd think that was a pretty lame question. New England was 14-2 and won the Super Bowl - how are they going to improve?

The strongest economic countries are the US and European countries. They don't have much room to improve - the US GDP increased 4.4% in 2004 and the European Union 2.9%. China's grew 9.1%, Singapore 8.1, Hong Kong 7.9, Viet Nam 7.7, Malaysia 7.1. Even India's grew 6.2%. I think it's a safe bet that it's a lot tougher to improve when you're on top than it is to catch up.

Hoping outsourcing stops is just wishful thinking. Even if some jobs come back, there will be net movement of jobs and money to cheaper labor markets. It also would be a sudden reversal of a 30 year trend. The big difference now is that it's beginning to hit the higher level jobs as well the unskilled labor market.

And why wouldn't it? Right at the time when we should be making a push for increasing education to keep a technological edge, the Democrats argue about pushing social issues into public schools while the Republicans try to gut it with school vouchers. I think it's also a safe bet that it's a lot easier to lose your focus when you're on top than it is when you're trying to get there in the first place.

 

[FredGarvin]

Fred, please utilize your "Nostra... magazine to stop calling me? Thanks a bunch.

 

[arildno]

A nostradamic advice:
"To companies high and low:
Beware the fateful foe!
The silk-tongued Indian in alluring attire
may lead you into straits very dire"

(:yuck:)

 

[klusener]

Hence the word "probably," used to indicate guessing on my part, in my original statement. I did not say that my advice was given or received. I made a statement based on observations I have made and a few personal friends' accounts. As far as sterotyping...well...what's good for the goose...

By the way, since you're over there, can you tell those idiots that are making daily calls trying to get me to subscribe to EDM magazine to stop calling me? Thanks a bunch.

Before that, you could call the idiots on your side to tell "our people" not to make those calls.

 

[klusener]

A nostradamic advice:
"To companies high and low:
Beware the fateful foe!
The silk-tongued Indian in alluring attire
may lead you into straits very dire"

lol, hilarious stuff...

 

[FredGarvin]

Before that, you could call the idiots on your side to tell "our people" not to make those calls.

Already been done. I guess the English as a second language courses haven't taken hold yet.