CCIE Salary vs EE Salary: Why the Difference?

[abdo375]

I was a bit surprised to find that the salary of a CCIE is twice the salary of an EE, how come that the Engineers who are designing the routes at Cisco are getting far more less paid than the people who operate them.
Is there any logical explanation for this ?

 

[berkeman]

What's a CCIE, and can you give a web pointer to your information source?

 

[Evo]

abdo375, you're confusing an Electrical Engineering college degree with a Cisco Certification, which has nothing to with the degree. Employers who need people to be Cisco Certified do usually pay more for Cisco Certified techs. You just pay Cisco for the test and if you pass, you get the certification. It is tough though, but I've seen these guys getting $250 an hour, so well worth adding it to your name.

CCIE - CICSO Certified Internetwork Expert

http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/learning_career_certifications_and_learning_paths_home.html

 

[leright]

Obtaining the CCIE takes a lot more than passing a test. You need to take a 100 question multiple choice exam before you even qualify to take the real test, which is an extremely grueling hands-on exam. You are required to set up a very high end internet backbone under a time constraint, and then over night it is screwed up in every way imaginable, and then you have to come in and fix the chaotic mess. IF you are able to pass this you are well worth the money to many companies. It's no joke. This isn't A+ certification or anything. It is one of the hardest tests out there.

Normally, certs don't prove anything, but this isn't a typical certification. I have heard this cert being compared to the Ph.D. People spend years preparing for this "test". Frankly, having an EE degree doesn't prove you can do the work required of you. The CCIE is much better proof of this since you were able to pass this grueling hands on exam under a time constraint (lots of pressure).

Whether or not it is fair that the CCIE makes so much more money than the engineer...I do not know...however, I do know that there are VERY few CCIEs out there, and there are MANY electrical engineers. When AT&T needs a CCIE and there's only 2 out there in a 350 mile radius you better believe you're going to get paid a ridiculous amount of money.

 

[Evo]

Yes, they are difficult tests, and most employers that need people certified will provide training and pay for the test, at least the first test, the second test might be out of your own pocket, it depends on budget usually. Yes, it's a 2-part test, written then hands on. Most people I work with plan to fail the test the first time so they can familiarize themselves with it and then re-take it. You can re-take the written test every 5 days. It's slightly different each time you take it, but going through it once helps. I wouldn't equate this with getting a PHD in the sciences.

 

[berkeman]

Interesting. So are most CCIEs part-time consultants that do something else full-time and do the CCIE work for gravy, or do most of them stay busy full-time at the higher rate? I'm happy where I am now (and stock options add gravy), but if CICE can be full-time for hotshots, that's interesting.

 

[leright]

Yes, they are difficult tests, and most employers that need people certified will provide training and pay for the test, at least the first test, the second test might be out of your own pocket, it depends on budget usually. Yes, it's a 2-part test, written then hands on. Most people I work with plan to fail the test the first time so they can familiarize themselves with it and then re-take it. You can re-take the written test every 5 days. It's slightly different each time you take it, but going through it once helps. I wouldn't equate this with getting a PHD in the sciences.

Yeah, equating it with a Ph.D is a little bit extreme, but still, the test is no joke.

 

[Evo]

Interesting. So are most CCIEs part-time consultants that do something else full-time and do the CCIE work for gravy, or do most of them stay busy full-time at the higher rate? I'm happy where I am now (and stock options add gravy), but if CICE can be full-time for hotshots, that's interesting.

They can be either. My favorite support tech has a CCNA, a CCIE and another couple. If you are full time, you get less per hour because you get benefits like health and funds matching, free legal etc...

If you are an independant contractor, then you can charge more, hours aren't guaranteed and you have no benefits.

 

[berkeman]

They can be either. My favorite support tech has a CCNA, a CCIE and another couple. If you are full time, you get less per hour because you get benefits like health and funds matching, free legal etc...

If you are an independant contractor, then you can charge more, hours aren't guaranteed and you have no benefits.

Sounds like the normal consulting routine. Dang, $250/hr x 2000 hr per year full time is a lot of money. I'm smart enough with the right (but over-qualified) background -- where do I sign up?

 

[Evo]

Sounds like the normal consulting routine. Dang, $250/hr x 2000 hr per year full time is a lot of money. I'm smart enough with the right (but over-qualified) background -- where do I sign up?

Less than 3% that test for ther CCIE pass., but doen't surprise me, a lot of them are really not qualified.

Even a CCNA is good.

Then go hit up companies that need techs. I have a client that may be needing one soon if this take s off, heck, I'll go work for him. He's got the contacts, he needs people that can do the networks. Just from this one deal he says he's going to "spin" me, I'll get roughly $385,000 for the deal. He's already got the deal locked under me at my company.

 

[chroot]

berkeman,

I've considered some of the same career paths... EE vs. computer science, that kind of thing. I'm currently a senior designer for a major semiconductor company, but my background is entirely in software. I considering going the network-engineer route, but, honestly, the market for those kinds of careers has cooled off a lot in the post dot-com years.

There's no downside to further education, but I think a EE position is a lot more stable than the situation of most of the 'network consultant' contractors I've known. YMMV.

- Warren

 

[chroot]

Just from this one deal he says he's going to "spin" me, I'll get roughly $385,000 for the deal. He's already got the deal locked under me at my company.

If I'm not mistaken, you are the exception, not the rule, yes?

- Warren

 

[Evo]

If I'm not mistaken, you are the exception, not the rule, yes?

- Warren

Actually, half of my group has already capped out $500,000 annually in commisions this year (on top of their salary), I am no where close yet. :-(

I was offered a Network Planning Engineer job a couple of months ago, but I need 18 months time and title, but I'm loved in that department, and I have so much experience, and have made some goood friends.. That's where I want to go. The job description calls for an advanced degree, CCIE & CCNA, + 10 years network experience. I can do this. And the guy I've been woking with would love to hire me as soon as he gets headcount. He's already had me send him my resume. KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED!

 

[Cyrus]

Actually, half of my group has already capped out $500,000 annually in commisions this year (on top of their salary), I am no where close yet. :-(

I was offered a Network Planning Engineer job a couple of months ago, but I need 18 months time and title, but I'm loved in that department, and I have so much experience, and have made some goood friends.. That's where I want to go. The job description calls for an advanced degree, CCIE & CCNA, + 10 years network experience. I can do this. And the guy I've been woking with would love to hire me as soon as he gets headcount. He's already had me send him my resume. KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED!

Send some of that money this way when you get that job!

Have you seen my porsche thread?

 

[chroot]

Actually, half of my group has already capped out $500,000 annually in commisions this year (on top of their salary), I am no where close yet. :-(

Are you suggesting that the average network engineer makes half a million dollars a year?

- Warren

 

[Evo]

Are you suggesting that the average network engineer makes half a million dollars a year?

- Warren

No, you have to be in technical sales. I make way more than my engineer with both the CCNA & CCIE. I want to get out of sales though (too stressful) and move over to network engineering, pay for that job is only in the $90,000 - $110,000 range, no commisions, but no more stress. The stress is killing me.

 

[marlon]

No, you have to be in technical sales. I make way more than my engineer with both the CCNA & CCIE. I want to get out of sales though (too stressful) and move over to network engineering, pay for that job is only in the $90,000 - $110,000 range, no commisions, but no more stress. The stress is killing me.

WOW EVO,


Do you make half a million dollars a year ?


WOW WOW WOW

Talkin' 'bout "one rich chick"...Lookin' for a (Belgian) husband ?



marlon

 

[Evo]

WOW EVO,

Do you make half a million dollars a year ?

Not yet. :-( most of the people making that have been here at least 2-6 years, I've only been here a year. I'll probably die from the stress before I reach that.

 

[marlon]

Not yet. :-( most of the people making that have been here at least 2-6 years, I've only been here a year. I'll probably die from the stress before I reach that.

Geezzuuss, that's just incredible. Our Prime Minister does not even make that kind of money. yep, it IS true. If you are "average to good" you are better of econimically in the USA. That's what the American Intel Assignees always say to me at work.

I really should move to your nice country Evo, and get rich and die from stress too.

marlon

 

[chroot]

It's all play money anyway, marlon. A decent house out here where I live starts at $500k, and a "nice" house runs a million.

- Warren

 

[marlon]

It's all play money anyway, marlon. A decent house out here where I live starts at $500k, and a "nice" house runs a million.

- Warren

Really ? But if you earn half a million dollars in one year and a decent home costs one million dollar, that is very good. Out here in Belgium, a decent home costs up to 250.000 euro's (at least) but i have never met a guy that makes that kind of money in TWO years. If you have like 2500 euro's a month (AFTER TAXES), you have a very good pay, well above average. 2500 * 12 = 30.000 euro's. Or 60.000 euro's in two years for a home of 250.000 euro's. That is not even close !

To be clear, let me assume that the half a million dollars a year is before taxes (which it probably is no ?) if we incorporate taxes, that 60.000 become 120.000 euro's, and that is about half of the price of a house.

AFTER TWO YEARS. In your case, you have earned your house !

I would say that is a very big difference. I did not even mention loans and stuff

marlon

 

[chroot]

marlon,

Seriously, most people in the US do not earn a house in two years. The vast majority of Americans are middle-class, earning enough to buy a house over a thirty year mortgage. People like Evo's co-workers comprise probably the uppermost 0.1% of the population.

- Warren

 

[marlon]

marlon,

Seriously, most people in the US do not earn a house in two years. The vast majority of Americans are middle-class, earning enough to buy a house over a thirty year mortgage. People like Evo's co-workers comprise probably the uppermost 0.1% of the population.

- Warren

I was not saying that, i was just comparing the "financial prospect" with respect to us out here in Western Europe. I know that one cannot earn a house in just two years because we are calculating with nuimbers before taxes have been deducted. But it is not about the absolute numbers, it is about the relative comparison.

marlon

 

[Evo]

marlon,

Seriously, most people in the US do not earn a house in two years. The vast majority of Americans are middle-class, earning enough to buy a house over a thirty year mortgage. People like Evo's co-workers comprise probably the uppermost 0.1% of the population.

- Warren

Exactly, and this is one of the most lucrative commission plans I've ever seen, it's not common in the industry. Most sales people in this field will cap out around $250K annually, and that's before taxes.

The downside is that commission plans can change, or you can have a run of bad luck. I would not encourage anyone to go into sales unless they have nerves of steel or just can't find anything else.

 

[Tristan]

I'm trying to get out of a 90,000$ a year sales job to go back to school, so I can make half the money! heh, sales is a great way to make money, but its not for me, I'm good at it but I don't like to be good at it, its an aggressive cut throat environment were you need to be willing to do absolutely anything to get your job done. I'm hoping to go back to school for a second degree in engineering/physics were I hope the work I do will be much more satisfying

 

[Evo]

I'm trying to get out of a 90,000$ a year sales job to go back to school, so I can make half the money! heh, sales is a great way to make money, but its not for me, I'm good at it but I don't like to be good at it, its an aggressive cut throat environment were you need to be willing to do absolutely anything to get your job done. I'm hoping to go back to school for a second degree in engineering/physics were I hope the work I do will be much more satisfying

Smart move! I wish I'd gotten out sooner.