- #106
wrobel
Science Advisor
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From outside it approximately looks like that EU=USSR-Gulag :)
Please don't tempt me to derail this EU topic by exploding about light bulbs! I'll just say that even with "warm white" I find colours look odd under LED light, and they don't do a good 100W yet. I watch out for developments and try things out but so far the results are far inferior to what I already had. In a hot climate, I'm sure that it's good to push energy-efficient lighting, but here it seems completely spurious. Anyway, if leaving the EU let's us have some pearl-style incandescent bulbs back, that would at least be a small comfort.mheslep said:I have no time for light bulb fiats from Brussels, however:
Harsh (cold blue 4500k) light LEDs are so five years ago.
2700 Kelvin WarmWhite - 2 Pack
https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/2700k-60-watt-equal-led-light-bulbs/
Lasts 10-20 times longer than, and uses 1/5 the energy of incandecents.
Not a surprise Gove stabbing him in the back or did he ask for it .What fun when thieves fall out.Gove is now insisting that he won't be pushed or intimidated into signing Article 50 if he is elected would seem he has the same problem as Boris it's probably just taking a little more time to sink in.Teresa May as the likely candidate now George has also backed out.Heseltine is really annoyed at Boris abandoning the field after creating the mess in the first place who can blame him.Jonathan Scott said:I see that Boris Johnson has backed out of standing for the vacant position of UK PM.
It is not so much a question of leaving things to our betters but a question of preventing self harm.Irrespective of who won or lost if you saw someone about to injure themselves you would try and prevent it no matter what democracy dictated.jim hardy said:am i hearing a theme in the halls of power ?
Governing would sure be a lot easier if we pesky commoners would just stay out of it and leave things to our betters, eh ?
The sentiment is nothing new.EDIT: Quotes above are not what the PF members said themselves, but from quotes cited by them. .
I used the 'quote' button so it'd be easy to get back to the relavent posts.
No intent to mis-represent what anybody actually said. I hope nobody took offense.
Just I'm amazed at the political scrambling for position and media frenzy . .
Buckleymanor said:ust because it's democracy it does not mean it is automatically right.
Not bad for 1513, eh ?A prince, therefore, must not mind incurring the charge of cruelty for the purpose of keeping his subjects united and confident; for, with a very few examples, he will be more merciful than those who, from excess of tenderness, allow disorders to arise, from whence spring murders and rapine; for these as a rule injure the whole community,
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=34cbfbb7-eb95-4e77-a155-3904297e45de&k=87376Danish Minister for Cultural Affairs Brian Mikkelsen ...
...stated that, "In Denmark we have seen the appearance of a parallel society in which minorities practice their own medieval values and undemocratic views,
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=34cbfbb7-eb95-4e77-a155-3904297e45de&k=87376"The notion of multiculturalism has fallen apart," [Merkel] said prior to her election. "Anyone coming here must respect our constitution and tolerate our Western and Christian roots."
Buckleymanor said:.Irrespective of who won or lost if you saw someone about to injure themselves you would try and prevent it no matter what democracy dictated.
Vanadium 50 said:So people can vote, so long as they don't vote the wrong way - and then they must be stopped. Does it surprise you that some people bristle at this?
Vanadium 50 said:Technically sure, the referendum was nonbinding. But if you hold a referendum, and then ignore the outcome, it sends the message to the populace that their opinion matters, but only if it's the right opinion.
The logic of that argument is that close outcomes in a referendum have no consequences, that they are no different from an extensive poll.Ryan_m_b said:I don't agree, though I acknowledge many feel that way. I would agree if the vote wasn't so close and if it wasn't advisory. As it stands it's up to the elected representatives to make a decision on a very important, close referendum that has turned into a political Charlie Foxtrot in the following week.
Youre certain, post referendum, that there is no majority support in the UK for leaving the EU via Article 50?Jonathan Scott said:... I'm certain that no interpretation can be found for which there would be majority support in the UK, especially as Scotland and Northern Ireland are against any form of Leave...
No, I'm saying that there's no specific realistic target position (for example whether still single market or not) which would satisfy such a majority.mheslep said:Youre certain, post referendum, that there is no majority support in the UK for leaving the EU via Article 50?
I would agree with you but it's not that clear cut you can't say it's a clear mandate a couple of percentage points is no reason to bristle caution is required.Vanadium 50 said:So people can vote, so long as they don't vote the wrong way - and then they must be stopped. Does it surprise you that some people bristle at this?
...Although the Netherlands is a founder EU member and currently holds the EU presidency, a June poll showed 54 per cent of people want a referendum on EU membership, while 48 per cent would vote to leave and 45 per cent to remain.
...A recent survey by the Pew Research Centre found that only 38 per cent of France had a favourable view of the EU, marking an astonishing negative shift in attitudes towards Brussels since the 2009 financial crisis
...a survey found that 48 per cent of Italians would opt to leave the bloc if given the opportunity of a British-style referendum.
...A recent poll found that 40 per cent of Austrians want an “Auxit” referendum. A majority of 53 per cent said if there was a referendum, they would vote to remain.
...A recent poll for Stern magazine found that just 17 per cent of Germans would vote to leave in a referendum, while 79 per cent would vote to remain
The Government has rejected a call for a second referendum on European Union membership in a petition that was signed by more than 4.1 million people following the Brexit vote.
It was the most-signed Government petition since the process was introduced in 2011.
However in an official reply, the Foreign Office said 33 million people had had their say and “the decision must be respected”.
Which decision must be respected thirty tears ago we had the referendum to join the EU and they have not respected the say of the voters from that.nsaspook said:
Seriously? 30 years is enough time for the situation to change. It certainly is no a do-over vote like what people want now.Buckleymanor said:Which decision must be respected thirty tears ago we had the referendum to join the EU and they have not respected the say of the voters from that.
It is a joke!
That is the point the situation has changed and most business within GB are more involved within the EU and never wanted a referendum in the first place.russ_watters said:Seriously? 30 years is enough time for the situation to change. It certainly is no a do-over vote like what people want now.
What, specifically, has changed?Buckleymanor said:That is the point the situation has changed...
That's do-over talk, not "the situation has changed". The vote said what it said. It represents the will of the people, to the level of which it is capable, whether the outcome pleases the people who lost or not....and most business within GB are more involved within the EU and never wanted a referendum in the first place.
You use the word contractual to mean the people of the UK were bound to the EU forever, and bound by the choices of people 30 years ago, as if the Article 50 exit procedure did not exist. You know, I know, and everyone else here knows this not the case so why not give it a rest?Buckleymanor said:Why 30 why not 49 or 1 year the contractual obligations towards the voters are not worth the paper they are wrote on.
The 'because' is 17 million votes to leave. The EU did enable new business, and lots of people in the UK had their businesses or jobs destroyed by EU rules.Lots of people will have built there business around the EU only to have them removed because of infighting within the Conservatives.
Right, then it's back to the devine right of kings. Off to the Tower with the dissent....You don't or won't get the point there is no point in having a referendum in the first place if you don't stick to the first result
Yes, that's pretty much par for the course in politics, unfortunately.rootone said:One of the big arguments at the moment is that after the result the 'exit' campaigners pretty much openly admitted that much of the basis of the case was fraudulent...
...and it's not unheard of that voters can persuaded by promises of milk and honey, and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow.
No extra money at all, or that some in Exit exaggerated the amount (as you do in in reverse here) It's widely understood some 250 million euros a week goes from the UK to EU control. That will end. Surely some can go to NHS instead.rootone said:There is no extra money available for the health service,
There are no expulsions of 'foreigners' taking place, the rest of the world is not falling over themselves to get preferential trade deals with the UK, and guess what else, the old empire countries are not begging for the return of British dominion over them.
Still the result is what it is. and it's not unheard of that voters can persuaded by promises of milk and honey, and pots of gold at the end of the rainbow.