Being proud of your heritage/culture?

[Pengwuino]

This question came to me last night while I was putting the finishing touches to my grand unified theory that involved only algebra and came to the conclusion that Earth is only 853 years old. I hear the ol 'I'm proud of my culture/heritage' thrown about a lot around where I live, typically by more racist people, and one question has finally come to mind: What does that mean?

I mean really, when I think of the word proud, a few things come to mind. For one, someone being proud of their son or daughter. This seems to make sense because you helped raise your child and how they behave reflects upon how good of a parent you were (at least in one's mind this can be argued, I am not interested in whether or not its true). Another is being proud of your neighborhood (or more commonly heard as "Taking pride in our streets") which to me still makes sense because you have a hand in keeping your neighborhood clean or in helping reduce crime and what not. Of course, there's always being proud of yourself where you take pride in the things you've done and accomplished... no need for an explanation there.

The idea of having pride in your culture and heritage confuses me though. I just don't understand what it means to have pride in people you don't know, most of whom are dead, or cultures which you had no part in creating really. Someone enlighten me, san francisco style. Wait just kidding, enlighten me in a way that's logical.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I've thought a lot about this. I think the reason people will say they have pride in something like heritage, is because they're really saying they're not ashamed of it (unless of course they're racist). It's not the same thing, but that's what I think it's turned into.

You can only be proud of something you've had a part in. It makes no sense to be proud of what race you are, since it was completely accident and you had no choice in the matter.
I'm white. Am I proud of that? No, what is there to be proud of just BEING white? Nothing. I'm proud of some of my actions (and not so proud of some others), but there's nothing about being white that makes me proud of that fact alone.
Am I proud to share a race with some of the other great white people in history? No. Why should I care what race they were? And what does them being great have anything to do with me? I also share a race with some of the worst people in history. Can I just ignore those people and be proud to share my race with the great ones? The whole thing is tantamount to racism.

If someone is proud to be Asian or black or white or whatever, that either means they're not ashamed of it, and they're conveying that feeling in kind of an aggressive way, or that they're racist and they're proud to be what race they are, because they wouldn't want to be any of the other inferior races.

 

[jobyts]

This question came to me last night while I was putting the finishing touches to my grand unified theory that involved only algebra and came to the conclusion that Earth is only 853 years old. I hear the ol 'I'm proud of my culture/heritage' thrown about a lot around where I live, typically by more racist people, and one question has finally come to mind: What does that mean?

I mean really, when I think of the word proud, a few things come to mind. For one, someone being proud of their son or daughter. This seems to make sense because you helped raise your child and how they behave reflects upon how good of a parent you were (at least in one's mind this can be argued, I am not interested in whether or not its true). Another is being proud of your neighborhood (or more commonly heard as "Taking pride in our streets") which to me still makes sense because you have a hand in keeping your neighborhood clean or in helping reduce crime and what not. Of course, there's always being proud of yourself where you take pride in the things you've done and accomplished... no need for an explanation there.

The idea of having pride in your culture and heritage confuses me though. I just don't understand what it means to have pride in people you don't know, most of whom are dead, or cultures which you had no part in creating really. Someone enlighten me, san francisco style. Wait just kidding, enlighten me in a way that's logical.

'I'm proud of my culture/heritage' just means 'I don't have anything to be proud of myself, my sons and daughters, or neighbourhood'.

It's human's evolutionary instinct to be proud of something. To few people, to make them feel proud, they just need to look at themselves. If you can't find anything there, look at your children, neighborhood, religion, country, race, and it goes on...

 

[mgb_phys]

It's human's evolutionary instinct to be proud of something.

Indeed, I'm proud that my own ancestors had the backbone to make the move form the sea to the land.

 

[lisab]

Indeed, I'm proud that my own ancestors had the backbone to make the move form the sea to the land.

How can you be, when your ancestors who decided to stay in the sea also had backbones ?

 

[tiny-tim]

rivers rock! (ok, rocks rock too)

Indeed, I'm proud that my own ancestors had the backbone to make the move form the sea to the land.

I'm proud that my ancestors had the backbone to make the move from the sea to the rivers.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Most people I've met who are proud of their ancestors don't know who one of them is.

 

[Anticitizen]

I knew an annoying girl whose ancestors immigrated from Ireland 4-5 generations ago. She was always talking about her Irish heritage. Well, she took a trip there. About it, she said: 'I knew from the moment I saw it that I was HOME!'

I said, 'I thought you were from Chicago...'

 

[0xDEADBEEF]

I knew an annoying girl whose ancestors immigrated from Ireland 4-5 generations ago. She was always talking about her Irish heritage. Well, she took a trip there. About it, she said: 'I knew from the moment I saw it that I was HOME!'

Those always piss of the locals by calling everything quaint :)

 

[Pengwuino]

I knew an annoying girl whose ancestors immigrated from Ireland 4-5 generations ago. She was always talking about her Irish heritage. Well, she took a trip there. About it, she said: 'I knew from the moment I saw it that I was HOME!'

I said, 'I thought you were from Chicago...'

And let me guess, she hasn't moved to Ireland yet.

Those always piss of the locals by calling everything quaint :)

Reminds me of Maddox's post about that group of celebrity mental defects that have that show on MTV where they go to third world countries and villages and say things like "Wow, this place is great! We're out in the middle of nowhere!" and Maddox comments about "Yah, I'm sure the villagers like knowing that they live in the middle of nowhere".

 

[Office_Shredder]

If you're brought up in a certain culture, it automatically looks better than other cultures because of familiarity (novelty will give other cultures a temporary chance, but inevitability kicks in). Hence everyone should be proud of their culture by default according to you. Why be so surprised then?

 

[jobyts]

If you're brought up in a certain culture, it automatically looks better than other cultures because of familiarity (novelty will give other cultures a temporary chance, but inevitability kicks in). Hence everyone should be proud of their culture by default according to you. Why be so surprised then?

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

 

[Pengwuino]

If you're brought up in a certain culture, it automatically looks better than other cultures because of familiarity (novelty will give other cultures a temporary chance, but inevitability kicks in). Hence everyone should be proud of their culture by default according to you. Why be so surprised then?

Yes but why would someone be proud? Liking one's culture is different. Being brought up in a culture certainly would make sense that you like it, but why take pride in it?

 

[russ_watters]

I've thought a lot about this. I think the reason people will say they have pride in something like heritage, is because they're really saying they're not ashamed of it (unless of course they're racist). It's not the same thing, but that's what I think it's turned into.

You can only be proud of something you've had a part in. It makes no sense to be proud of what race you are, since it was completely accident and you had no choice in the matter.
I'm white. Am I proud of that? No, what is there to be proud of just BEING white? Nothing. I'm proud of some of my actions (and not so proud of some others), but there's nothing about being white that makes me proud of that fact alone.
Am I proud to share a race with some of the other great white people in history? No. Why should I care what race they were? And what does them being great have anything to do with me? I also share a race with some of the worst people in history. Can I just ignore those people and be proud to share my race with the great ones? The whole thing is tantamount to racism.

If someone is proud to be Asian or black or white or whatever, that either means they're not ashamed of it, and they're conveying that feeling in kind of an aggressive way, or that they're racist and they're proud to be what race they are, because they wouldn't want to be any of the other inferior races.

A good answer, but there is another layer: "I'm proud of my heritage/culture" can be like saying "I'm proud of my kids".

It doesn't automatically imply that you are saying you had anything to do with what they did, it's sort of just a way of congratulating them and saying you are glad you are associated in some way with what they did, even if that association is just living on the same piece of land (I'm proud of the founding fathers of the US).

While it may be true that some people take it further than that, it is not a good idea to assume that anyone who uses such words means them in any stronger a way than that (as some are doing in this thread...).

 

[Pengwuino]

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

Oh but thanks to immigration, that form of nationalism is a very very small subset of what I'm talking about. Maybe it's different in the South or something where their idea of culture and heritage is actually of the United States (or maybe I am stereotyping...), but in say, California, most people were born or raised in the US but their culture and heritage is from the country they first immigrated from.

 

[Evo]

I knew an annoying girl whose ancestors immigrated from Ireland 4-5 generations ago. She was always talking about her Irish heritage. Well, she took a trip there. About it, she said: 'I knew from the moment I saw it that I was HOME!'

I said, 'I thought you were from Chicago...'

That reminds me of a guy I dated. He considered himself Irish. Was completely obsessed with all things Irish. His dad was American, but I think his dad's grandparent's were Irish. His mother was Japanese. He was in complete denial that he was 50% Japanese. I found it quite comical, but at the same time quite sad. He hated his mother, so he refused to be part Japanese.

 

[lisab]

Yes but why would someone be proud? Liking one's culture is different. Being brought up in a culture certainly would make sense that you like it, but why take pride in it?

Perhaps it's a reaction to being disrespected in the past.

For example, my grandfather never, ever mentioned his Apache heritage, because when he grew up people would make fun of him - tease him and call him Geronimo and such.

But now things are different, and most people who have Native heritage will tell you they're proud of it. I take that to mean, I'm not ashamed of my heritage (with a little bit of "And if you call me Geronimo I'll probably punch you" sprinkled in ).

 

[Pengwuino]

Perhaps it's a reaction to being disrespected in the past.

That still doesn't make too much sense, logically. I mean sure, it feels like that's a good reason, but i can't seem to see it as logical. If you consider a fat person who was fat as a kid. If he was disrespected because he was fat as a kid, why would one feel proud of being fat once they grew up? In both cases, aside from the health problems with being overweight, there is nothing intrinsically good or bad with being fat or native american, it's just who you are.

Then again, being overweight is something you can logically be ashamed of... hmm i need to think about this more.

 

[leroyjenkens]

A good answer, but there is another layer: "I'm proud of my heritage/culture" can be like saying "I'm proud of my kids".

It doesn't automatically imply that you are saying you had anything to do with what they did, it's sort of just a way of congratulating them and saying you are glad you are associated in some way with what they did, even if that association is just living on the same piece of land (I'm proud of the founding fathers of the US).

While it may be true that some people take it further than that, it is not a good idea to assume that anyone who uses such words means them in any stronger a way than that (as some are doing in this thread...).

You're related to your kids. They came directly from you. You've known them all their life and you can attribute their quality of character to your own.

The problem is they're NOT associated in any way with what they did. I'm white just like Isaac Newton, but does that fact alone make me associated with his discoveries?
We just shared the same race. You can even broaden it to species; we're both human.

Ultimately isn't pride strictly a self-centered feeling? By definition, I don't think you can be proud of anyone but yourself.

That reminds me of a guy I dated. He considered himself Irish. Was completely obsessed with all things Irish. His dad was American, but I think his dad's grandparent's were Irish. His mother was Japanese. He was in complete denial that he was 50% Japanese. I found it quite comical, but at the same time quite sad. He hated his mother, so he refused to be part Japanese.

Did he equate his tolerance for alcohol with him being Irish? I know a lot of pseudo-Irishman who do that.

But that's strange; usually when given the option, people choose the Japanese side. They got Ninjas and Samurais and stuff.

That still doesn't make too much sense, logically. I mean sure, it feels like that's a good reason, but i can't seem to see it as logical. If you consider a fat person who was fat as a kid. If he was disrespected because he was fat as a kid, why would one feel proud of being fat once they grew up? In both cases, aside from the health problems with being overweight, there is nothing intrinsically good or bad with being fat or native american, it's just who you are.

Black women especially are becoming indoctrinated in the belief that they should be proud because they're big and beautiful. It's unhealthy. I know a woman who has that mindset. She also has diabetes.

 

[Loren Booda]

The real challenge is to be proud of the Other - like rooting for the underdog at the Olympics, recognizing how cultures competing with our own now once allied themselves with our ancestors, or understanding just what it means to be human. That's when we feel true pride.

 

[russ_watters]

Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. - George Bernard Shaw

Not differentiating between patriotism and nationalism is a big mistake. Among other things, two world wars were fought in which that distinction was pretty critical.

 

[russ_watters]

You're related to your kids. They came directly from you. You've known them all their life and you can attribute their quality of character to your own.

While logically, you can take credit for the accomplishments of your kids, I'm *told* (I'm not a parent yet) that parents are most proud of the things kids do on their own. It's the difference between being proud of yourself for raising a good kid and being proud of your kid for accomplishing something on their own.

Ultimately isn't pride strictly a self-centered feeling? By definition, I don't think you can be proud of anyone but yourself.

I actually had to look it up since it is something I've never really thought about specifically before! Every definition except one implies selfishness to me, so I don't know what that implies for being proud of someone else (as in Loren Booda's post). Perhaps I'm drawing a distinction that doesn't exist.

 

[Huckleberry]

When acknowledging respect, pride is esteem. Without respect, it is hubris. The word 'pride' covers both of these meanings.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

While logically, you can take credit for the accomplishments of your kids, I'm *told* (I'm not a parent yet) that parents are most proud of the things kids do on their own. It's the difference between being proud of yourself for raising a good kid and being proud of your kid for accomplishing something on their own.

I understand what you mean about being proud of your kids. I don't see how such a definition applies to one's race though.


I'm of the opinion that a person's pride in their culture or race comes from a desired sense of belonging or being part of something bigger than themselves. I don't distinguish between pride felt by other races or cultures and pride felt by whites. I think that the reasoning in any instance is very similar if not the same. People simply express their 'pride' differently.

 

[Loren Booda]

When acknowledging respect, pride is esteem. Without respect, it is hubris. The word 'pride' covers both of these meanings.

Respect seems to cover "humility" as well - from humbleness to false modesty.

 

[Huckleberry]

Respect seems to cover "humility" as well - from humbleness to false modesty.

False modesty is just another form of vanity and superiority. It's more akin to hubris than humility. Yeah, there does appear to be a respect issue with humility as well.

Pride can mean humility with esteem as well as hubris with vanity.

 

[thisworldisee]

To the original poster of this thread.

My boyfriend and I were having a light hearted argument/conversation about this very topic on our drive home from Seattle today.

He was very much on "your side" but my point of view on this is some what different.I understand what you mean when you say that a person really has no right to be proud of their culture or heritage when they had no part in what it is. This is what I believe they do have the right to be proud of. If they are continuing on things that are in some way a part of where they come from like the food, the language, religion, customs, so on and so forth then yes they have a right to be proud of who they are AND where they come from because they themselves are having a part in it being passed down to another generation.

Now for another example if someone knows that they are Irish and know the history of where they come from then they have a right to be proud of things that the people before them accomplished. When someone says I'm proud of my history or heritage it doesn't necessarily mean that they are saying they are proud of themselves or even that they are proud to be a part of it. It just means that they are proud of the positive things the people before them were able to achieve. They are happy about it.

Which brings me to my last and final point, pride I believe is almost another word for joy. It's a way in which people express a joyful feeling that they have about something that they are knowledgeable about and do have some part in. If I had been born in Mexico and knew the language and the customs and what not I would be happy and be joyful to be a part of that, I would be proud of the things my ancestors accomplished or tried to accomplish to better my life and the lives of people after me.

If you are being proud of something in a way in which it makes you seem as if you are better than other people or someone else than that is really just being boastful.

 

[General_Sax]

The idea of having pride in your culture and heritage confuses me though. I just don't understand what it means to have pride in people you don't know, most of whom are dead, or cultures which you had no part in creating really. Someone enlighten me, san francisco style. Wait just kidding, enlighten me in a way that's logical.

Does one posses their culture? Because if they do, I don't see why someone can't have pride in their culture.

 

[kldickson]

I'm not, but then again, I'm such a mish-mash of European cultures that the only ethnicity I am is American, which is thankfully more multi-color than other cultures. It would be jarring for me to spend a lot of time in any place that was all one skin tone. :P

Patriotism and nationalism seem to be confused a lot in my country. The fringes seem to think they're being patriotic when they're being nationalists.

 

[turbo]

I'm not particularly proud of my ancestors because there is no reason to be, that I can see. I am very grateful for having been brought up in a family in which French and Indian traditions were honored. Kids were expected to pitch in with gardening and tending animals, slaughtering them, etc. When fiddleheads, berries, and other wild food was in season, we were expected to gather them, and hunting and fishing was important to the family's sustenance. Even little kids could help out by bringing home a stringer of fish for supper. I am proud of the older people in my extended family because they made sure to give us kids life-skills that they themselves valued highly.

 

[turbo]

For a little perspective, when I was a sprout, we were allowed to keep brook trout over 6" in length and could take home 12 a day. As a kid of 5,6,7 or older, what might you think about your mother's reaction when you brought home a dozen brook trout 6-8" or more for supper? Fishing and bush-whacking through the woods were fun to me, but essential to the family, I think. When I was young, my mother always insisted that if I was going fishing, I had to go with older kids from the neighborhood. I learned early that if I lied and went alone, I could come home with more fish.

BTW, the nearest brook was over a mile away if I took a direct route through the woods and if I fished it to the head-waters and walked back home I easily had to cover 10+ miles. At least I wasn't home listening to my 3 sisters whining about everything.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Ultimately people want to think they are amazing individuals. And, in my experience, the less amazing a person is, the more desperate they become. Claiming the glory of ones ancestors is often the first step since it is mildly accepted in our culture. I always found this funny with Columbus because I've personally heard spaniards, jews, french and italians all claim some affinity to him (especially since, from my limited understanding, the guy was a douche). However, this is just another manifestation of what is known in psychology as "Cognitive Dissonance". Which is basically the psychological phenomena that when one's actions/state is in conflict with ones beliefs/perspective ones beliefs/persepctives tend to change to match their actions/state (as opposed to the other way around). I met a woman once who claimed that the value of a person was related to their ability to knit (not lying). She of course had some asinine reasoning about discipline and willpower and attention to small detail and such. But I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone to find that she was quite an experienced knitter. What a coincidence, a world view of the value of people where she resides at the top? Now of course all of us are guilty of this to some degree but some are certainly more guilty than others. Some claim the value of a person is in their grammar skill, others in their lack of swearing, still others in their mathematical ability (*wink*, *nod*). It's all somewhat arbitrary and I've always thought that pride in ones heritage was just an extension of this (I am an awesome person because I have the blood of ethnicity X and they've done awesome things).

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Cult of nation, cult of blood, cult of religion; it's all the same deal.

 

[noblegas]

Yeah, I really don't understand how you can be proud of your heritage or proud of the accomplishments a few members of your ethnicgroup/racial group are responsible for but you yourself are not; I also find it funny that people will take pride in the accomplishments members of their race/ethnic group might be responsible for , but not take pride in some of the things we liked to forget like spainiards and english basically wiping the bulk of another "race" of people , or the Salem witch trials , the crusades, cannibalism, etc;just blank out any disaster in human history your ancestor might have participated in just because you don't like it; People also like to ignore the behaviors their ancestors might have practiced , like rape and pedophilia, that may have helped continued your genetic lineage;

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Yeah, I really don't understand how you can be proud of your heritage or proud of the accomplishments a few members of your ethnicgroup/racial group are responsible for but you yourself are not; I also find it funny that people will take pride in the accomplishments members of their race/ethnic group might be responsible for , but not take pride in some of the things we liked to forget like spainiards and english basically wiping the bulk of another "race" of people , or the Salem witch trials , the crusades, cannibalism, etc;just blank out any disaster in human history your ancestor might have participated in just because you don't like it; People also like to ignore the behaviors their ancestors might have practiced , like rape and pedophilia, that may have helped continued your genetic lineage;

Also members of a group whose actions and ideas do not correspond to the rightousness of the group that other members perceive are obviously found to not be 'true' members of said group.