Ahmadinejad Interview | 60 Minutes | CBS News

[abdo375]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/21/60minutes/main3286690.shtml

I wanted to know what people thought of his interview, I'm from Egypt which had it's share of problems with Iran but I believe he's a reasonable man and I definitely give him more credibility than bush and his administration.

 

[Moridin]

He is a Holocaust denier and a religious fundamentalist. That makes him and unreasonable man.

 

[abdo375]

Please read this...
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm

 

[sneez]

What exactly that did he say that you judge him Holocaust denier? How is he religious fundamentalist, what fundamental did he do? or whatever that term means? That sentence Moridin, does not convey one information about Ahmadinejad but it says all about judging. Since when reasonableness has to do anything with religion?

 

[slugcountry]

LOL I enjoyed this one:

Asked about widely documented government abuse of women and homosexuals in his country, Ahmadinejad said, "We don't have homosexuals" in Iran. "I don't know who told you we had it," he said.

-------

OK the guy is obviously somewhere off the deep end (assuming he actually believes that).

 

[Moridin]

What exactly that did he say that you judge him Holocaust denier? How is he religious fundamentalist, what fundamental did he do? or whatever that term means? That sentence Moridin, does not convey one information about Ahmadinejad but it says all about judging. Since when reasonableness has to do anything with religion?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/10/iran.israel/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/

Religion is generally inversely proportional to the level of reason a person has.

He is a religious fundamentalist when it comes to Islam as well as a fanatic.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/netdict?Fundamentalist
http://m-w.com/dictionary/fanatic

 

[abdo375]

Moridin, It's funny that you'd quote CNN when the title of the site I gave you was "NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN", I believe that his words were intentionally misinterrupted by the US media.

 

[sneez]

Moridin, I am sorry but again you fail to show how religion in generally cuts one's reason in half level.

The other statement is still void of a point. I know you love reason and you read books I have read, and I don't know how with that knowledge can you produce such misinformed and intentionally loaded statements?

They are intentional since you choose to read only "confirmatory" information about you prior knowledge which is I presume collective in its core anyway. As a reader of Sagan's you should know that you cannot confirm belief.

On general note, I am always trying to avoid political debates because people I know as reasonable in let's say science come out completelly "donkey brained" when it comes to reasoning out their "political" opinions. Rethoric one: How is this possible?

 

[Yonoz]

Ahmadinejad Claims Holocaust Invented to Embarrass Germany
It's a sad day when a holocaust denier is cheered by US students.

 

[Moridin]

Fine, here are more independent sources of his Holocaust denial:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iran-us,0,4908534.story?coll=chi-newsap_in-hed
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/archive/2005-12/2005-12-13-voa5.cfm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/11/AR2006121101163.html
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2149241,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1807497,00.html
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2070190.ece
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nL14418509&from=business

If you think his denial is a myth invented by Western media, then you are indeed immunized against reason (presumably because of your religious views).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Today when asked if he executes homosexuals, he said: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals... I don't know who told you that we did"

 

[mgb_phys]

Today when asked if he executes homosexuals, he said: "In Iran, we don't have homosexuals... I don't know who told you that we did"

In the same way that we didn't have homosexuals in the army when we had conscription.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Perhaps it would have been better to ask if he has ever had anyone excuted for engaging in homosexual activity.

I didn't get to watch his appearance at Columbia U today, but I look forward to the comedy. What a little snake he is.

Cafferty calls him Ahmadinnerjacket.

 

[sneez]

I see a lot of irrationality in people I expect it the least: Statements like ...cheered..., and assuming one statement justifies whole bag of emotionally loaded statement about some person and or person who is aking about nature of these assumption is best we can do in political debate ?

 

[sneez]

By the way I wish I could teach about truth of Holocaust, but its not possible to be rational on political debates. [Being jew descend and from Europe and large family, stories ..yada yada ] Politics is a means to reach desires, and as such cannot lead to truth, as at least in principle in science is not about desires but about observations. (I wonder how many ppl take this as statement about denial of Holocaust. And the same stop-and-think I want when talking about statesman )

 

[Xori]

Has today's questions-&-answers session between Ahmadinejad and a bunch of students at Columbia University been released yet? Anyone have a link?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Here's the funny thing about the Holocaust claims: The most popular TV show in Iran is about the Holocaust! Apparently dinnerjacket was over-ruled by an Ayatollah, and the show goes on.

A rather postive sign I thought.

Every Monday night at 10 o'clock, Iranians by the millions tune into Channel One to watch the most expensive show ever aired on the Islamic republic's state-owned television. Its elaborate 1940s costumes and European locations are a far cry from the typical Iranian TV fare of scarf-clad women and gray-suited men.

But the most surprising thing about the wildly popular show is that it is a heart-wrenching tale of European Jews during World War II.

... In fact, the government's spending on the show underscores the subtle and often sophisticated way in which the Iranian state uses its TV empire to send out political messages. The aim of the show, according to many inside and outside the country, is to draw a clear distinction between the government's views about Judaism -- which is accepted across Iranian society -- and its stance on Israel -- which the leadership denounces every chance it gets. [continued]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118912609718220156.html

 

[abdo375]

It's amazing that most people here are upset about his views on Homosexuals, Women and The Holocaust and not his nuclear program, although this is a good sign that a lot of people aren't seeing him as an actual threat it shows how much of a cultural differences appears to be between us, although you might find it astonishing, his views on homosexuality is widely accepted in the Arabic and Islamic world and I truly doubt there will be any changes to it soon. That being said it's funny to see how the limits of "freedom of speech" are being tested in the USA when that topic concerns the holocaust yet all the newspapers yell "freedom" when it's about mocking a religious figure from the Islamic world.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I went to college with many people from the M.E., and in particular people from Iran, and my old boss was from Iran, I can tell you that IMO, our two cultures do not have any fundamental problems in getting along. Sure, we have differences [esp when it comes to doing business], but I can honestly say that I've never met an Iranian that I didn't like.

The problem with this guy is that he's a nut. And it seems that even the Ayatollahs known it.

 

[abdo375]

Ivan, I'm from the ME and I believe when it comes to homosexuality, women, freedom of speech and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict our views differ a lot. but that wasn't the point I was aiming at, what I was saying is that sometimes we have to accept each others culture as it is. We will never change our views on jailing homosexual people just as you won't stop prosecuting people who deny the holocaust. the problem as I believe is that our views provoke you more than yours surprise us (we're used to your views due to your powerful media hammering us with them).

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There is a new kind of social pressure that we all are beginning to feel - the world court of opinion. I think this, through the internet and modern media, will drive us all to a common center, just as we see with the dilution of ethnicity.

 

[fourier jr]

The problem with this guy is that he's a nut

...according to the US media. I just watched his thing at Columbia & the president sounded really like more of a nut than Ahmadinejad did. In the president's introduction he first made a bunch of thoughtless, banal comments about freedom of speech & then went into accusation after accusation, even before Ahmadinejad had a chance to speak. Ahmadinejad mentioned Palestine ("why should the Palestinian people pay for something that happened 60yrs ago that they had nothing to do with?"), the Nazi holocaust ("why is it taboo to study it & ask questions?"). He didn't say (not then anyway) anything that could even, in the most far-fetched interpretations, be interpreted as holocaust denial. If his speech at Columbia is anything to go by he sounds like a pretty sensible guy. He's certainly no more of a religious nut than any American politician. Could an atheist who has never served in the military ever get elected president of the US? I doubt it.

 

[mgb_phys]

It is rather reassuring that he is just a lying weasel willing to say whatever makes him popular at home and whatever his PR advisors say is appropriate for the audience abroad.
So obviously he is a politician first and a baby-eating fundamentalist maniac second - in other words, the kind of person we can deal with,

 

[Gokul43201]

We will never change our views on jailing homosexual people just as you won't stop prosecuting people who deny the holocaust. the problem as I believe is that our views provoke you more than yours surprise us (we're used to your views due to your powerful media hammering us with them).

Really? When did you last heard of bloodthirsty riots and destruction of property by people in the EU protesting the jailing of homosexuals in the ME? On the other hand...

 

[Yonoz]

Here's the funny thing about the Holocaust claims: The most popular TV show in Iran is about the Holocaust! Apparently dinnerjacket was over-ruled by an Ayatollah, and the show goes on.

A rather postive sign I thought.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118912609718220156.html

Freaky deaky: Iranian Holocaust miniseries sympathetic to Jews? Update: AP story has it all wrong?

Mohammed Reza Kazemi cleared up the matter in a recent SPIEGEL article (link in German only, sorry). Main points:

* the major point of the series is that it was allegedly the German Jews themselves who collaborated with Hitler to kill those Jews who opposed the re-settlement of Palestine
* for example, a plot line shows that a Jewish researcher is in possession of documents that prove the connection between Hitler and Zionists
* the credits of each episode feature the work of anti-Semite Roger Garaudy as a “historical source”
* “historical adviser” to the series is Holocaust denier Abdollah Shahbazi who openly admits in his blog that he’s a denier
* director and screenwriter Hassan Fatthi alleged to SPIEGEL that according to “historical evidence” a majority of Hitler’s victims were those who opposed the re-settlement of Palestine

 

[slugcountry]

We will never change our views on jailing homosexual people just as you won't stop prosecuting people who deny the holocaust.

You know its not often that I literally am at a loss for words - this statement is astounding...

 

[russ_watters]

That being said it's funny to see how the limits of "freedom of speech" are being tested in the USA when that topic concerns the holocaust yet all the newspapers yell "freedom" when it's about mocking a religious figure from the Islamic world.

There is no freedom of speech issue here. Heck, we even gave him a platform to speak from!

Freedom of speech does not mean people have to accept or even respect your message.

 

[Art]

AHMADINEJAD: Please, please, let me finish my thought. Actually, I very much oppose this behavior. Picture it. If an Iranian reporter kept repeatedly asking the same questions from a U.S. official, how would you feel? Would you feel good about that?

PELLEY: I would.

Isn't this the point where security guards rushed forward and Tasered the guy for being too persistent?

Oops wrong country.

 

[mjsd]

It's amazing that most people here are upset about his views on Homosexuals, Women and The Holocaust and not his nuclear program, although this is a good sign that a lot of people aren't seeing him as an actual threat it shows how much of a cultural differences appears to be between us, although you might find it astonishing, his views on homosexuality is widely accepted in the Arabic and Islamic world and I truly doubt there will be any changes to it soon. That being said it's funny to see how the limits of "freedom of speech" are being tested in the USA when that topic concerns the holocaust yet all the newspapers yell "freedom" when it's about mocking a religious figure from the Islamic world.

double standard is a fact of life... why is it ok to condemn Saddem's WMD but not Israel's nuclear arsenals? Why is it ok for Pakistan to have a military ruler but not in Afghanistan? Why is it ok for the US to take unilateral action against another country (without UN saction) but not for Russia in Chechnya?

We have the freedom of speech but don't have the right to insult. But where to draw the line? I say I don't like your religion, and you say you don't like my ideals? who is in the wrong? no one really... we must accept the fact that life is diverse and complex.

More importantly though, Ahmadinejad will need a lot more "public image" surgeries in order for ppl in the western to "respect" him, respect his comments and actions. Merely trading insults with Israel and Bush is not going to help that course. (that's western politics... it is often not about substance but image)

 

[mgb_phys]

More importantly though, Ahmadinejad will need a lot more "public image" surgeries in order for ppl in the western to "respect" him, respect his comments and actions. Merely trading insults with Israel and Bush is not going to help that course.

It's not impoprtant that western ppl respect him - they can't easily fire him. the speech was for home consumption and for other Arab leaders.

(that's western politics... it is often not about substance but image)

That's all politics - people assume when some random 3rd world leader makes a statement about the USA it's aimed at the USA, in fact it's aimed at the people who are thinking of replaacing him.

 

[sneez]

right on point mjsd

 

[hserse]

Confusion in the state of Relativity.

It was interesting that he's much more of an orator than our current President and to the very extent most of our politicians. I don't know him and I don't think anybody knows him other than from the media (televised). Therefore, who is to judge if he's good/evil-those term are relativitism. Just acknowledge and be aware his prowess, cunning and his postion as a leader of a country. We don't have to lookup to him or be scared of him. We have the ability to define who he will be and vice versa...Remember we are interconnected and interdependent. For every action there's equal and opposite reaction- we shape one another. Whether you all want to acknowledge or not, what we(mainly) do will shape what the world future will be. The outcome will be base on our RESPONSIBILITY as one the world leaders - RESPOSIBILITY- defines as the ability to response to circumstance and situation. You'll be the judge whether recently we have been effective on our RESPONSIBILITY as the world leader or as a nation. All of you will be a part of or play (no matter how minute it may be) a role whether he will become another Hitler or Ghandi.
FDR famous quote should help sum it, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself." Be careful, we may destine to have future historian lable US as "The rise and fall of the American Empire," like we understood of the rise and fall of "The Ottoman Empire," etc.

I'm almost confidence or assume you all here in this Physic Forum are intellectual thinker in matter physical world, and thus you should have intellectual capability in the philosophical realm as well. Please think outside the sphere of influence. We don't have too much time to hate one another- the probability of our species to last as long as the dinosaurs are NONE.


Have a wonderful day..

 

[Moridin]

Perhaps it would have been better to ask if he has ever had anyone excuted for engaging in homosexual activity.

I didn't get to watch his appearance at Columbia U today, but I look forward to the comedy. What a little snake he is.

Cafferty calls him Ahmadinnerjacket.

You do not have to be enganged in homosexual 'behavior' to be executed in Iran, all you need to be is a homosexual.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/19/AR2006071902061.html
http://www.ukgaynews.org.uk/Archive/2005july/2604.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2176958,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=press&page=pr_8_03_05

We have the freedom of speech but don't have the right to insult. But where to draw the line? I say I don't like your religion, and you say you don't like my ideals? who is in the wrong? no one really... we must accept the fact that life is diverse and complex.

Just as you can be wrong in physics and history, you can also be wrong when it comes to ethics, such as the hanging of homosexuals. I will never such barbaric behavior and I do not really care if you find it culturally insensitive.

Actually, we have the right to insult people by criticizing ideas, ideologies and opinions. People do not have the right not to be offended. Also, a rational discussion of the facts is not an insult. Trying to restrict FoS by special pleading of religious 'disrespect' is, and it is a threat to our liberal democracy.

 

[russ_watters]

double standard is a fact of life... why is it ok to condemn Saddem's WMD but not Israel's nuclear arsenals? Why is it ok for Pakistan to have a military ruler but not in Afghanistan? Why is it ok for the US to take unilateral action against another country (without UN saction) but not for Russia in Chechnya?

In order to have a double-standard, the situations have to be equivalent. None of those are.

We have the freedom of speech but don't have the right to insult.

That is completely untrue. You don't have the right to slander, but that doesn't even apply to public officials. And besides - if it is true (or at least defendable), it isn't slander. Just plain insulting someone (ie, calling them a jerk) is perfectly within the right to free speech.

 

[russ_watters]

He didn't say (not then anyway) anything that could even, in the most far-fetched interpretations, be interpreted as holocaust denial.

You miss the point: the reason he was asked the question at all was because of his past Holocaust denial. Basically, people are trying to get him to stick his foot in his mouth again.

He's certainly no more of a religious nut than any American politician. Could an atheist who has never served in the military ever get elected president of the US? I doubt it.

Those things have nothing whatsoever to do with each other, unless you are of the belief that all religious people are nuts. And even if you do believe all religious people are nuts, you have to be able to differentiate different degrees.

There was an interview of one of Castro's advisors on Sunday morning TV two weeks ago. The interviewer asked questions about Castro's recent 9/11 conspiracy theory statements. The interviewer pointed out that if Castro really believes such things, it calls into question his mental state. The same applies to Ahmadinejad. Not believing things that any rational person would is what makes him a nut.