What is Perpetual motion: Definition and 111 Discussions

Perpetual motion is the motion of bodies that continues forever in an unperturbed system. A perpetual motion machine is a hypothetical machine that can do work infinitely without an external energy source. This kind of machine is impossible, as it would violate either the first or second law of thermodynamics or both.These laws of thermodynamics apply regardless of the size of the system. For example, the motions and rotations of celestial bodies such as planets may appear perpetual, but are actually subject to many processes that slowly dissipate their kinetic energy, such as solar wind, interstellar medium resistance, gravitational radiation and thermal radiation, so they will not keep moving forever.Thus, machines that extract energy from finite sources will not operate indefinitely, because they are driven by the energy stored in the source, which will eventually be exhausted. A common example is devices powered by ocean currents, whose energy is ultimately derived from the Sun, which itself will eventually burn out. Machines powered by more obscure sources have been proposed, but are subject to the same inescapable laws, and will eventually wind down.
In 2017, new states of matter, time crystals, were discovered in which on a microscopic scale the component atoms are in continual repetitive motion, thus satisfying the literal definition of "perpetual motion". However, these do not constitute perpetual motion machines in the traditional sense or violate thermodynamic laws because they are in their quantum ground state, so no energy can be extracted from them; they exhibit motion without energy.

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  1. P

    Is electron spin a perpetual motion?

    suppose we do not excite it or depress it, will it perform spin forever?
  2. C

    Why Is Perpetual Motion Impossible?

    Hey, Is the only reason for a perpetual motion machine being impossible, both in theory and in practice, simply due to friction? Because there are substances, such as superfluids, and potentially other forms of matter that could be discovered in the future where there is zero friction, so would...
  3. W

    Orbital Perpetual Motion Generator

    I'm probably going to make a fool of myself for asking this, but that's what the anonymity of the internet is for right? (That and other things that you probably won't find at a physics forum) If I understand correctly, and I may well not, the reason you cannot build a device that will...
  4. T

    Perpetual Motion Machine Question

    Say you had a spring with a magnet on top(stuck to the spring). And when the spring is pushed down, in which it will go back up, it will go near another magnet, pushing it down. Pushing it down makes it go back up. Would this work?
  5. K

    What is Feynman's Definition of Perpetual Motion?

    Could somebody please explain this excerpt to me from Feynman's Lectures on Physics on perpetual motion? I don't completely understand his definition of perpetual motion. Thanks! "We must be careful to define perpetual motion...If, when we have lifted and lowered a lot of weights and restored...
  6. K

    Perpetual Motion Debate: Proving its Reality?

    Alright, I've been into the argument of perpetual mation. I've seen the debate for each side and I wanted to see you guys thought. There is one theory that seems to prove it. If prepetual motion isn't real then why do electrons around an atom never stop?
  7. B

    Can a buoyant object achieve perpetual motion?

    Would a buoyant object be able to achieve perpetual motion or even past perpetual motion if it were in a machine as portrayed below?https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=93e42fc0d8&view=att&th=12ca0732e35fe2f9&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_gh5sgy4n0&zw
  8. T

    Why is this not a perpetual motion machine?

    So a friend of mine posted this picture on my facebook wall. I assume there is some kind of inside joke involved that I'm not on the inside of. Anyways, I can't see any reason why this setup is impossible.
  9. A

    Is perpetual motion truly impossible?

    I found textbooks on physics (long time ago, when I was a student) where the authors said (paraphrase): "We do not assert that perpetual motion is impossible. It just hasn't been seen so far." What do the mentors and contributors say about that statement? (berkeman?)
  10. W

    As close to perpetual motion as we might ever get.

    I am here today to propose a "perpetual" device. it doesn't make energy, its perpetual in the sense that more energy (specificly electricity) is received that the amount used. Have your heard of the Dyson bladeless fan? well ill post a link for you to read, but ill put all the basic information...
  11. J

    Perpetual Motion Balls: Buy & Learn What You Need

    What do you call and where can i buy the set of balls (maybe 4 or 5) suspended in strings and when the outermost ball hits the the next one and bounces off the last one on the other end and sets off perpetual motion? I surely appreciate any ones response. Thank you. Josh
  12. B

    Perpetual Motion and the Laws of Thermodynamics

    How come we say perpetual motion is not possible according to the laws of thermodynamics. Yet our universe is expanding faster and faster. How can we say nothing is faster than the speed on light but the universe expanding is? Keep it simple please.
  13. O

    Could a Cosmic Perpetual Motion System Exist with Earth and Moon?

    Ok, I'm almost certainly incorrect but I want to see where I'm going wrong. Let's say the Earth had only ocean, and a little jut of land somewhere amongst this ocean that had a turbine that collected energy as water ran through it. Now consider the moon orbiting the earth, pulling the...
  14. C

    Can Anyone Explain These Perpetual Motion Videos?

    Does anyone have explanation for these videos? << video links removed by berkeman >>
  15. G

    Perpetual motion machine selling site

    Hi, people! I've recently found this site on the web: [link deleted by Ivan] It is a site thet sells plans for various so called "fuelless motor" devices. Take a look, and you'll see that it is basically selling plans of perpetual motion machines (and they aren't even original! The diagram...
  16. S

    Perpetual motion machines - gravity an unconventional source?

    This example is highlighted in the Wikipedia definition of perpetual motion. Machines which are claimed not to violate either of the two laws of thermodynamics but rather to generate energy from unconventional sources are sometimes referred to as perpetual motion machines, although they are...
  17. DaTario

    Hydrogen atom as an example of perpetual motion

    Hi All, Thermodynamics forbids perpetual motion based in its second law, but how should one deal with an isolated H atom, seen here as a machine? Is there a concrete perspective of its stopping? In its stationary and fundamental state may one observe dissipation? Thank you DaTario
  18. K

    Quantum Leaping & Perpetual Motion?

    Hi all Ill start with saying I am very new to all this. I am a very geometric oriented person and I view things as images and not equations. So most times I can figure out and know how things work but I just can't explain how they work in terms or equations. I have just started studying quantum...
  19. M

    Reverse osmosis perpetual motion machine

    The original problem was as follows: Closed-loop system, with complete isolation. Salt water is green, fresh water blue, porous plug (AB) is red. Fresh water spills into the salt water column at C if the fresh water is lifted higher than the salt water, maintaining continuous flow...
  20. wolram

    Gravity waves perpetual motion?

    I have tried to find out how gravitational radiation can be suppressed or decay, there may be some thing in the literature but i can not find it, also is it possible for gravity waves from different distances and times to merge?
  21. M

    Why doesn't the buoyant wheel and belt perpetual motion machine work?

    perhaps you can help me. on http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm fundamentally, what is the reason that the picture under the words "buoyant wheels and belts" doesn't work? (Except remove the movement of water between two buckets. replace that with compressing and...
  22. C

    Pressure, weight, density perpetual motion?

    Hello. I've come up with an idea that I need to check: There is a wheel, filled up with air, inmersed on a tank of water. Attached to that wheel there is a number of boxes, that has two windows on opposite sides that can communicate with the water on the tank, or with the air inside the...
  23. T

    Is This Perpetual Motion Machine Really Possible?

    I just read about a new perpetual motion machine and it looks like it will work. You take a cat and tie a piece of toast on to its back. then you butter the toast and toss the cat into the air. Since the toast has to land butter side down and the cat always lands on its feet it spins forever.
  24. G

    Is Combining a Heat Engine and Heat Pump a Perpetual Motion Machine?

    A heat engine is combined with a heat pump so that the entire system is an isolated system. In the heat engine, energy shifts from the hot reservoir so that some of it is used for work and the rest is sent to the cold reservoir. The work, however, is used entirely for the heat pump, in which...
  25. E

    Why is the Earth a perpetual motion machine

    Seems like an odd question - but if your an astraunaut in Earth orbit and travel with it around the sun - your going different speeds around the sun but always traveling the same distance away from any two points on the sun every second (keplers #2) the how = closer you are to sun, the faster...
  26. M

    A perpetual motion machine that will work

    a perpetual motion machine that will work... A magazine held a competition, inviting its readers to submit new scientific theories on ANY subject. Below is the winner: Subject: Perpetual Motion When a cat is dropped, it always lands on its feet, and when toast is dropped, it always...
  27. D

    Is a Perpetual Motion Machine Possible?

    I've heard a perpetual motion machine would be impossible, but then that some people out there believe it is. I was wondering if anyone out there has any thoughts on it..
  28. D

    Perpetual Motion: Exploring Faraday's Law of Induced EMF

    Hi. In class we are currently studying electromagnetism. The unit we are currently doing is on generators and motors using faradays law of induced emf. While reading, i had a random thought: If a generator is set up, such that its output current is directed to a motor, which creates...
  29. C

    Perpetual Motion: U-Tube Water Capacitor Experiment

    There is a U-tube which contains pure water of about half of its volume. And let's put a capacitor around one surface of the water in the tube. If we apply a high dc voltage to the capacitor, the surface of the water in one side of the tube rises slightly because the permittivity of water is...
  30. quasar987

    What's the Point of Perpetual Motion Machines?

    I found how to make a perpetual motion machine! (just joking, keep reading! :-p) We just saw what they are in my thermodynamics class, and if I understood correctly, it represents the only heat-to-work conversion machine not (theoretically) in violation of the second law. And this solution is...
  31. T

    Hi - What is perpetual motion?

    What is perpetual motion? Will it work in space?
  32. H

    Helium Atom: Perpetual Motion Possibility?

    Is a helium atom (or any atom with a full valence shell) a perpetual motion device?
  33. B

    Perpetual Motion: Ideas & Input Welcome

    well, here's the thing, i have an idea and would love to share with everyone, but until i physically test it I am not going to, but if anyone has any input on the subject i would love to hear it
  34. H

    What causes atomic perpetual motion?

    Hello, Just like in the topic, what causes electrons to move around the nucleus in perpetual motion (they never stop). For now, it's the only question. I'll have some more when I get the answer. p.s Actually, let me ask another one. A little bit unrelated. What causes electrons to move in a...
  35. M

    Perpetual Motion: Tests & Guidelines for Legitimacy

    This is a Edit ... What Tests and Guidelines would a perpetual motion machine have to pass to be considered legit? thanks everyone matt
  36. K

    Is Perpetual Motion Real? Lessons from I Robot and the Laws of Thermodynamics

    I just noticed as I was writing my research paper on perpetual motion, as I was going over the laws of thermodynamics, I realized that it is like the plot of I Robot. In I robot, the 3 Laws the robots must follow is like the laws of thermodynamics. The robot/computer program security system...
  37. T

    Is a perpetual motion machine possible?

    This makes for an interesting mind experiment: http://www.geocities.com/osiris_dionysus1618/ppmmach2.GIF Ultimately the energy comes from the magnetic fields that deminish.
  38. J

    Second type perpetual motion machine is existent .

    second type perpetual motion machine is existent . miaobo Let us assume that a system make a circulate of thermodynamics ,if we can approve that entropy will not equal to 0 , so the second law of thermodynamics is wrong ,and the second type perpetual motion machine is existent . The...
  39. S

    Electron Clouds: Perpetual Motion? Response

    Perhaps motion is not what is happening in the electron clouds, at least not the motion we sense from the coordinates at which we observe the universe. Remember that you and I are particulate beings, made of what we observe to be atoms and particles...as you say? Also remember that each...
  40. D

    Perpetual Motion within an atom?

    [SOLVED] Perpetual Motion within an atom? I have something to add to this. Since I don't quite understand what the guy above said I'm sorry if I repeat a question of his. If electrons are goin' around an atom with a balance of kinetic and Potential energy, and they've been spinning since the...
  41. Z

    Casimir Effect and Perpetual Motion

    I read about the Casimir effect right away, and the first thing that came to me was a question. If quantum fluctuations can in empty space can move two completely uncharged metal plates at small distances, then wouldn't that give the potential for a perpetual motion machine? I realize...
  42. D

    Perpetual Motion: Does it Have to Start on its Own?

    Hypothetically speaking of course- For a machine to be perpetual; Does it have to start its movement off its own energy / work from its own system? Or does it simply have to sustain momentum-movement once its motion has started? Ie) If I use an electric current which is employed from...
  43. R

    Perpetual Motion - Is It Possible?

    Perpetual motion has been deemed "impossible", at least in the world we live in. Why aren't the perfectly elastic collisions between gas particles considered perpetual motion?
  44. R

    Gravity > Perpetual Motion > Charging by Induction and energy

    So according to my common sense and logic and some disscussions I had with other people on IRC, theoretically in space if you had a exactly/perfectly spherical planet with a cylinderical hole through it, and you dropped something -a huge permanent magnet to be specific- through that hole, the...
  45. T

    What is wrong with a perpetual motion machine?

    I'm just curious, why is it that anye perpetual motion machine that is thought up is discarded immedietly. I know that energy can't be created nor can be destroyed but then again, a few centuries we were absolutely positively sure that the Earth was flat! I mean anything can be wrong, why...
  46. T

    Exploring Perpetual Motion with Two Particles

    I had an idea which i can't fully realize because i don't know the physics behind it. Here it is: imagine two particles, for example a and b. imagine also that a is attracted to b but b repels a. In this case, both atoms would essentially travel in a straight line forever assuming they repel and...
  47. M

    Is Perpetual Motion Truly Impossible or Simply Misunderstood?

    First off, I don’t have a phd, I am not a scientist (hehe well I am a comp programmer and i know some of them to claim to be scientist) My skills and basic understanding physics, classical and quantum are weak compared to the people that frequent this forum. I actually found this forum while I...
  48. S

    What is a Perpetual Motion Device and How Can I Make One?

    I make a perpetual motion device. It is a kind of overbalanced wheel. :wink: It is very simple mechanism. I am trying to make its prototype (or toy model). It is on paper now. :confused: I am trying this month only. After that I will cut my drawing in ten (10) parts.I ll release all drawings...
  49. D

    Perpetual Motion: Can the Student's Idea Work?

    Question: A student once came up with an idea for a perpetual motion machine. His idea was as follows: Point an electric fan at a wind generator. Blow on the blades of the wind generator to activate it. As the generator produces electricity, it is used to ppower the electric gan which in turn...
  50. I

    Perpetual motion and free energy possible?

    perpetual motion and free energy possible? acording to many inventors, they have invented a perpetual motion machine, from a guy in Norway, USA, Canada, France. but according to todays laws in physics, perpetual motion is imposible, one guy said aliens from Kandlon, or something, visited him...
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