Planet inhabited purely by AI

[fanieh]

I rewatched the Matrix I, II, and III. The AI machines have evolved so much they have their own cities. Which made me wonder.. If a planet were totally inhabited by AI machines. Would they still be individual android with its own personality.. or a collective personality?

What sci-fi movies have this theme about a planet inhabited purely by AI. And how would they look like and behave when they conquer other worlds?

 

[phinds]

Why would they want to conquer other worlds?

 

[fanieh]

Why would they want to conquer other worlds?

According to abductees. Their "abductors" were once AI machines created by an insectoid alien race.. then these machines developed further after their masters died.. and they want to assimilate emotions into their collective.. so they came to Earth and abductee women and raised Hybrids.. Dr. David Jacobs wrote in "Walking Among Us: The Alien Plan to Control Humanity" the hybrids are mostly grown up now and assimilated into society.

But I don't care. I ignore all of them now because as they say, Ignorance is Bliss.

I want to watch good sci-fi movies about pure AI aliens for entertainment. any recommended titles?

 

[newjerseyrunner]

Probably both. Humans do it. Things that are our own little quirks we call personality. Things that are shared quirks we call culture.

 

[Drakkith]

Which made me wonder.. If a planet were totally inhabited by AI machines. Would they still be individual android with its own personality.. or a collective personality?

We can't know that ahead of time. There are many possibilities and it's just not possible to predict ahead of time how these hypothetical AI machines would look, behave, or think.

And how would they look like and behave when they conquer other worlds?

Same as above. We have no idea.

Remember that humans are driven by brain structure and thought processes given to us by millions of years of evolution. We think and act the way we do because it was useful in the past and helped us survive. AI is under no such evolutionary constraints. Instead its constraints will be based on how it is originally built and how it develops from there.

 

[rootone]

A really good short story is "The last question", by Isaac Asimov.
In it, humans still exist but only as servants to a much more intelligent AI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question
I don't know if anyone attempted a movie.
I think it's interesting that Asimov came out with this when computers had the performance of today's digital watch,
and were constructed from vacuum tubes, no silicon chips at that time.

 

[newjerseyrunner]

A really good short story is "The last question", by Isaac Asimov.
In it, humans still exist but only as servants to a much more intelligent AI.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question
I don't know if anyone attempted a movie.
I think it's interesting that Asimov came out with this when computers had the performance of today's digital watch,
and were constructed from vacuum tubes, no silicon chips at that time.

Wait, What? It's literally the opposite of what you describe. The machine is there to serve humanity. The whole point of the end is that even after humans are gone, it spends eternity trying to answer their last question.

Don't think there was a movie but Leonard Nemoy did a great reading of it, it's on YouTube.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

"He Who Shrank" included a "machine planet gone mad".

 

[SlowThinker]

I was thinking about this question, slowly because that's what I do, and remembered 2 such planets. Not a movie though.
1. In Stargate SG-1 around season 7 or so, there is a planet of Replicators, who just sit there doing nothing, because there is nothing more to do.
2. There was also a short story, where a scientist created robots to protect and serve humans. They had a planet where they created more robots until every human had a robot watching over him, and humans were not allowed to do anything because they could get hurt.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

2. There was also a short story, where a scientist created robots to protect and serve humans. They had a planet where they created more robots until every human had a robot watching over him, and humans were not allowed to do anything because they could get hurt.

"With Folded Hands"?

 

[SlowThinker]

"With Folded Hands"?

Yeah could be. I don't know the English name, I read a translation to my native language.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Yeah could be. I don't know the English name, I read a translation to my native language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Folded_Hands

 

[fanieh]

Whatever. An AI planet that used to have an Insectoid culture which assimilated into human culture would have AI-human Hybrids that is poor in EQ or even human nature. The following is just sample of what it means. David Jacobs wrote in page 4 of http://www.nicap.org/images/humrep/JAR_2007_1st_Qtr1.pdf:

"Recently, I had a case in which a woman walked into a supermarket and found a familiar late-stage hybrid waiting for her there. He told her to go about her normal shopping and he would watch. She went about shopping and he asked her questions about each object that she put in her cart. "What are these?" "These are eggs." "How do you make eggs?" "You can fry them. You can boil them. You cook them in some other way." He continued to ask questions of the items and she was required to answer. At one point she put a loaf of bread into her cart and he said, "Do you cook that too?" He was trying to learn.

In the last eighteen months I have been hearing these types of accounts from people with whom I have worked for many years. All of these accounts, to put it bluntly, point to a future in which human-looking hybrids will be here amongst us. The evidence is now so strong I can no longer look at alternative motivations for them. Everything I have learned about this subject in the past 20 years inexorably points to this conclusion. I cannot escape it. "

If you won't believe it. Treat it as a creative story or even ideas for science fiction. Did you notice all our science fiction are so shallow. Why don't they make something out of this? What we have are stupid Avengers or Transformers.. and whenever I get out of movie I always hear people saying "What a stupid waste of time!".

 

[Drakkith]

If you won't believe it. Treat it as a creative story or even ideas for science fiction.

There's nothing there to "believe". It's just a fictional story.

Did you notice all our science fiction are so shallow.

No. I find that some of our fiction is shallow and some of it is not.

Why don't they make something out of this? What we have are stupid Avengers or Transformers.. and whenever I get out of movie I always hear people saying "What a stupid waste of time!".

Really? I usually here something more along the lines of, "That was awesome!" or "That was pretty good."

If you're unsatisfied with current science fiction, perhaps you should write some yourself?

 

[DrStupid]

If a planet were totally inhabited by AI machines. Would they still be individual android with its own personality.. or a collective personality?

Maybe both - a collective personality consisting of semi-independent individual personalities.

I had a similar question in regard to AIs "living" on a Dyson Sphere and competing for computational resources. On a small scale larger entities could have an advatage over smaller ones because they are smarter. But on large scales smaller entities would have the edge over larger ones because they are faster (due to the limited speed of light). In the result I would expect a Pareto distribution for the size of the individual entities, similar to biological life forms.

And how would they look like and behave when they conquer other worlds?

That depends on their intentions. Everything is possible ranging from establishing a peaceful hegemony (like in "The Day the Earth Stood Still" [the original of course - not the awful remake]) to the point of complete destruction (like in Charles Stross' "Accelerando").

 

[256bits]

"Recently, I had a case in which a woman walked into a supermarket and found a familiar late-stage hybrid waiting for her there. He told her to go about her normal shopping and he would watch. She went about shopping and he asked her questions about each object that she put in her cart. "What are these?" "These are eggs." "How do you make eggs?" "You can fry them. You can boil them. You cook them in some other way." He continued to ask questions of the items and she was required to answer. At one point she put a loaf of bread into her cart and he said, "Do you cook that too?" He was trying to learn.

That certainly is asinine! The writer seems to want to lead to the conclusion, but comes up short.
The hybrid can understand complex language structure, but can't seem to comprehend the simple frying of an egg.
And what normal shopper has the time. Wouldn't it be better to ask questions to a clerk, if one can find one that is.
The conclusion I disagree with - learning!

The real story would be much more interesting.
The hybrid, in the woman's eyes, was trying to pick her up in a supermarket, and being male, thought he was supposed to act dumb, ( he watched one too many detergent commercials about how to get the whites white ) and she, in her rapture of being the centre of attention, played along since he was such a hunk. Only when he followed her into the health aisle to the feminine hygene product section and with his probing questions did she snap, wacked him on the side of the head with a jar of strawberry jam, breaking his skull, and killing him instantly. Her testimony to the police was that he would not stop stalking her and she had no choice but to be physical.

 

[fanieh]

What movies have themes about qualia being not reducible to matter.. and about humans having something more that no AI can ever duplicate.

Meaning qualia of humans is not equal to qualia of AI aliens or artiicial machine lifeforms. I'm looking for movies about this where the AI aliens need humans to assimilate emotional intelligence or others.

 

[Drakkith]

What movies have themes about qualia being not reducible to matter.. and about humans having something more that no AI can ever duplicate.

I wonder if Ghost in the Shell counts? I've seen it, but I'm not very big on themes and such, so I don't remember how it handled something like this.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

I wonder if Ghost in the Shell counts? I've seen it, but I'm not very big on themes and such, so I don't remember how it handled something like this.

The original movie had two AI reproducing.

 

[Drakkith]

The original movie had two AI reproducing.

Huh. Wonder if they needed a cigarette afterwards...

 

[fanieh]

The original movie had two AI reproducing.

I remembered watching Dark City.. it was about the AI aliens inprisoning humans in a big spaceship that has city inside it. But I'm looking for one where the AI aliens come to Earth and abduct women to create AI-human hybrids. Whatever, they should be low in EQ being a cross between humans advanced emotional evolution and the AI poor social skills. David Jacobs reported the Hybrids as possessive and temperamental. Hope they can make movie along this line.

Excerpt from David Jacobs "The Threat":

"The women who have had pleasurable contacts with hybrids are the lucky ones. Other women have experienced ominous and difficult relationships with them. Even the romantic hybrids can suddenly display anger and malice. Intentional cruelty is an important component of hybrid interaction with abductees -- especially in sexual situations.

Emily:
When Emily's marriage was in trouble, she flirted with another man and thought about entering into a sexual relationship with her new admirer. This brought strong and stern warnings from her hybrid, who was usually the romantic type. In reaction to Emily's new love interest, her hybrid was angry and vengeful. During an abduction, he threatened to turn her over to the gray aliens whom she hated, and he even punished her by including her would-be paramour in a staging incident. The hybrid "placed" Emily's friend in the hallway near her. When she saw him, she broke away from the hybrid and rushed to her friend, begging him to help her and to try to get her out of there. As she clutched him, she realized it was not her friend, but one of the gray alien "doctors" whom she despised and feared so much. Emily was horrified, but the hybrid laughed. He said he could do anything he wanted to her and this was just another warning to stay away from her friend.

Laura:
Five hybrids of different stages accosted Laura in her room one night. They did not like the fact that she was using electronic instruments to detect their presence -- at least that was the excuse they used. She remembered that they had acted this way in the past, even before she was aware of her abductions.
She was lying next to her husband when the independent hybrid activity began..."No movies like this or even TV series? Any sci-fi writers here? Why don't you submit some scripts to Steven Spielberg? It will be fun. Won't it.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Why do you think "Dark City" had AI aliens?

 

[fanieh]

Why do you think "Dark City" had AI aliens?

Arent' they machines beings? Hmm... ok i'll find copy of Dark City blu-ray tomorrow and watch it. But according to wikipedia entry on the movie Dark City. "They confront Dr. Schreber, who explains that the Strangers are endangered extraterrestrial parasites who use corpses as their hosts. Having a hive mind, the Strangers have been experimenting with humans to analyze their individuality in the hopes that some insight might be revealed that would help their race survive."Maybe i have to watch the Star Trek movie with the Borgs about AI aliens. I forget what part of the many Star Trek parts it is.

Whatever.. could there really be non AI aliens with hive mind? Could they even pass through normal evolution to have hive mind? Do ants or bees have hive mind? Could sentient beings have hive mind?

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Definitely not AI. I have a copy of "Dark City" here.

 

[rootone]

Do ants or bees have hive mind? Could sentient beings have hive mind?

It depends what you mean by a mind.

 

[SlowThinker]

@fanieh you'll probably have to search among very old movies. The modern view is that AI can exceed or at least equal human's abilities in every respect.

Could sentient beings have hive mind?

You could say that humans already have a hive mind, at least since the invention of the internet, more likely since the invention of speech.
The science community is more clever than any individual. Countries have intentions that are not aligned with any human's intentions, same with companies both small and large.

 

[Drakkith]

You could say that humans already have a hive mind, at least since the invention of the internet, more likely since the invention of speech.

Indeed:

hive mind
noun
noun: hive mind; plural noun: hive minds; noun: hivemind; plural noun: hiveminds

1. a notional entity consisting of a large number of people who share their knowledge or opinions with one another, regarded as producing either uncritical conformity or collective intelligence.
   "he has become one of those celebrities whose online presence has made him a favorite of the Internet hive mind"
   • (in science fiction) a unified consciousness or intelligence formed by a number of alien individuals, the resulting consciousness typically exerting control over its constituent members.
     "there is a Borg Queen who controls the hive mind"

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

Indeed:

hive mind
noun
noun: hive mind; plural noun: hive minds; noun: hivemind; plural noun: hiveminds

1. a notional entity consisting of a large number of people who share their knowledge or opinions with one another, regarded as producing either uncritical conformity or collective intelligence.
   "he has become one of those celebrities whose online presence has made him a favorite of the Internet hive mind"
   • (in science fiction) a unified consciousness or intelligence formed by a number of alien individuals, the resulting consciousness typically exerting control over its constituent members.
     "there is a Borg Queen who controls the hive mind"

Sounds like that definition was developed to prove that point. It certainly doesn't match any definitions of "hivemind" I've seen before.

 

[fanieh]

It depends what you mean by a mind.

The way I understand mind is. There are two kinds of minds.

lower mind - composed of the subsconscious/unconscious processes and concrete logical thoughts and I think this is the highest any AI can reach

higher mind - composed of abstract thoughts, source of love, poetry, intuition, creativity

Well.. actually these are the core teaching of esoteric schools of all ages of all cultures. According to them, these are the teachings that came from other worlds in the ancient past.
If the universe has billions and billions of inhabited planet. Is it not impossible one that came to Earth and shared the teachings in the dawn of civilization.
According to the teachings. Man is part animal, part of something higher or part of a spectrum of higher consciousness (who knows.. it may be beyond quantum gravity physics... even Penrose kept saying this).
However, if one day we can develope purely AI machines that can write poetry or an AI Shakespeare. Then all those esoteric teachings are rubbish. Lol. This is why I'm interested in AI.. because if it were true and there are Shakepearan AI. Then all those teachings are really just tales.
By the way. According to David Jacobs book The Threat (the Allison Reed chapter). The Hybrids will terminate people with abilities who can recognize them for what they are. They are targetting members of the esoteric schools who are advanced who can challenge them in the future (imagine Jedi meets AI Hybrids meet X-men).
If all these are made into TV series or movies. Won't it become popular? This is what I meant movies like Transformers or Avengers are quite boring because the universe is not only stranger (or more elegant) than one can imagine.. but perhaps more stranger than one can even imagine (even the science fiction writers). Perhaps the world is crazy about X-men, Avengers, etc. movies because we are catching subsconciously or acquiring a glimpse or shadows of the true situation?
Back to hard data. I thought they were trying to map the brain and simulate them with circuits. What progresses have been done along this line? What would happen if our neurons were replaced with transistors? Can they write poetry?

 

[SlowThinker]

I think this is the highest any AI can reach

That is the modern equivalent of "things heavier than air cannot fly".
BTW, birds can surely create art, both in music and in painting/architecture. What makes you think AI can never do this? What if we grow a brain in the laboratory, do you consider it an AI or not?

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

BTW, birds can surely create art, both in music and in painting/architecture.

Instinct isn't considered creativity unless they've changed the definition.

 

[SlowThinker]

Instinct isn't considered creativity unless they've changed the definition.

If "instinct" is how you call creativity in non-human beings, then you are correct.
If you accept creativity as creating intricate patterns with no immediate value, then I say birds are creative.

 

[Noisy Rhysling]

If "instinct" is how you call creativity in non-human beings, then you are correct.
If you accept creativity as creating intricate patterns with no immediate value, then I say birds are creative.

I don't accept special definitions without a good reason.

 

[SlowThinker]

I don't accept special definitions without a good reason.

Can you provide your definition of creativity, art, and abstract thoughts?
BTW, if your definition contains the word "human" in it, I don't accept it.

 

[fanieh]

That is the modern equivalent of "things heavier than air cannot fly".
BTW, birds can surely create art, both in music and in painting/architecture. What makes you think AI can never do this? What if we grow a brain in the laboratory, do you consider it an AI or not?

It's simple.

There is lower creativity..
and higher creativity...

lower creativity - as simple as when robbers plotted to rob a bank.. creatively..

higher creativity - when one is connected to the oneness in the universe.. source of higher intuition.. abstract thoughts... penrose Planckian qualia..

About "what if we grow a brain in the laboratory, do you consider it an AI or not?". In the future we can test easily.

All sentient beings with capability for higher creativity can do Jedi tricks. Pure AI can never do any Jedi tricks.
Of course I need to wrap it in sci-fi language because this forum is sci-fi. Lol.. And oh, I just watched Star Wars: The Force Awakens a while ago. I wonder when is the next one coming..