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Aquamarine
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Which is the right ethical system? Some explanations can be found here at "Major doctrines of ethics":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
the number 42 said:Moral Relativism is the one true system. All the rest are rubbish.
dekoi said:I guess you don't believe in an objective truth.
Would you care to share why?
dekoi said:Would you care to define "truth?" ?
"Act only in accord with a principle which you would at the same time will to be a universal law"eddo said:Just curious, what does categorical imperative mean?
honestrosewater said:"Act only in accord with a principle which you would at the same time will to be a universal law".
honestrosewater said:...you must "act only in accord with a principle which you would at the same time will to be a universal law" so you must will that everyone break their promises. If everyone broke their promises, promises would lose their worth, no one would accept promises, and the system of promises would collapse.
But that's the beauty of it - it doesn't require a pre-set group of laws. Its simplly derived from experience and logic. Its anti-religious. If a religious person is using it to argue for a god, they're misusing it.the number 42 said:This bit sounds okay, but I always get nervous when people start claiming their actions are based on natural laws or universal truths, because they usually turn out to be a fundamentalist of some description.
But again, that's the beauty of it: it isn't based on what you believe, its based on what you can prove either logically or through examples.And this sounds okay when you use an example like promises that most people will agree on. However, it also sounds like a recipe for egoism, and 'doing unto others as you would have them do unto you' i.e. the other person's view should be based on your own. This only works if everyone is in agreement in the first place. If you take an example of sex, then the way I think sex should be performed is the way I think all people should perform sex. Or what I think is a fair political system is what everyone should think is fair.
russ_watters said:But that's the beauty of it - it doesn't require a pre-set group of laws. Its simplly derived from experience and logic. Its anti-religious. If a religious person is using it to argue for a god, they're misusing it.
russ_watters said:But again, that's the beauty of it: it isn't based on what you believe, its based on what you can prove either logically or through examples.
Applied to politics, if someone says democracy is the best system based on the categorical imperative, they'd need to prove that it works, based on its history, and that it would work for everyone, using logic. Obviously, the fuzzier the evidence gets, and the more complex the issue gets, the more room for argument there is.
the number 42 said:Russ, you just done made me mad, goin' callin' a body a moral relativist, an' all that fancy city talk
I'm not for relativism either, but arguing from different premises and contending that your viewpoint is correct isn't relativism, it is a simple self-serving bias towards suporting our own point of view. After all, we do have a tendency to think that what we think is correct is correct, unless we are depressed or confused (or maybe enlightened). This is a real phenomenon, not the groovy relativism you so cruelly accuse me of
Well, many of the ethical systems can be classified as either focusing mainly on prescribing some actions or prescribing some consequences. Does the end justify the means? Now I will gladly admit that the distinction is not always clear. For example, some would combine categorical imperative with utilitarianism. But this distinction has the advantage of making people think about the question stated.honestrosewater said:I think the question is problematic because it assumes there is a "right" ethical system. It's especially problematic for a skeptic, I would imagine.
I can't see the choices now, but I have to go with cooperative egoism. Was that a choice? Nope. And why is egoism classed with consequentialism? And what does ethical mean? No, seriously, why consequentialism?
What is wrong with utilitarianism? I think most objections will disappear if one looks up the more modern version, rule utilitarianism.loseyourname said:My only problem with the categorical imperative is that it is unintentionally utilitarian, which Kant claimed to be opposed to.
Aquamarine said:What is wrong with utilitarianism? I think most objections will disappear if one looks up the more modern version, rule utilitarianism.
No, I was mostly just being an @$$ I am probably closer to skepticism than anything else.Aquamarine said:Cooperative egoism is unclear, do you attempt to combine both egoism and utilitarism completely into one system?
Given the list of ethical systems in the poll, the interactions would form a matrix with a row for each doer and a column for each receiver. In the cell corresponding to my row and your column put a 1 if every ethical act my system permits me toward you is also perceived as ethical in your system. Put a 0 there otherwise. Then if we have a 1 at any (row_number, column_number) does it follow that we have a 1 at the symmetric position (column_number, row_number)? In other words is the matrix symmetric?
Aquamarine said:Which is the right ethical system? Some explanations can be found here at "Major doctrines of ethics":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics
Ethical systems provide a framework for making moral decisions and determining what is right and wrong. They help individuals and societies establish guidelines for behavior and promote fairness and justice.
Ethical systems can differ in their foundations, principles, and application. Some are based on religious beliefs, while others are grounded in reason and logic. They may also prioritize different values and principles, leading to variations in ethical judgments.
There is no universally agreed upon "right" ethical system. Different cultures, religions, and individuals may have their own beliefs and values that shape their ethical perspectives. What is considered ethical can also change over time.
While some ethical principles may be shared across cultures, ethical systems are often shaped by cultural beliefs and values. This can make it difficult to apply one system universally. However, there are efforts to develop ethical principles that can be applied globally, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Choosing an ethical system is a personal decision that may be influenced by your beliefs, values, and experiences. It can also be helpful to consider different ethical perspectives and their implications for real-life situations. Ultimately, the "right" ethical system is one that aligns with your personal values and guides your moral decision-making.