Thomas The Train and Friends Toys Recalled

[edward]

The toys apparently have lead in the paint. I have a feeling that the list below from the Consumer Product Safety Commission is going to grow.

I bought these for my grandson from "The Learning Curve". DAMN They should have been covered in gold for what they cost.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07212.html

As near as I can find out the "Learning Curve" is owned by a company called RC2 and the toys have been made in China since 2005.

http://www.learningcurve.com/wps/portal/

This link to RC2 gives code letters on found the bottom of toys that are safe.
They are "WJ" or "AZ". It also has a link to pictures of the toys involved.

http://recalls.rc2.com/recalls_Wood_0607.html

This has been going on for two years, and has just now been discovered??

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Not long ago a Chinese company was caught using lead paint on lunch boxes for children.

The Chinese seem to be doing everything possible to help US manufacturing compaines. Eventually this issue of Chinese products being dangerous is going to reach critical mass. I no longer trust that any product made in China is safe.

There are many very good reasons why it costs more to manufacture products here than elsewhere - oversight and safety are two of the big ones.

 

[MeJennifer]

In the statement:

In cooperation with the CPSC, RC2 has issued a voluntary recall on June 13th, 2007, of various Thomas & Friends™ Wooden Railway vehicles and wooden train set components sold at toy stores and various retailers nationwide from January 2005 through June 2007.

Voluntary?

 

[Astronuc]

In the statement:

In cooperation with the CPSC, RC2 has issued a voluntary recall on June 13th, 2007, of various Thomas & Friends™ Wooden Railway vehicles and wooden train set components sold at toy stores and various retailers nationwide from January 2005 through June 2007.

Voluntary?

They didn't wait to be forced.

 

[edward]

With all of the problems with imported goods coming from China one would think that the Product safety Commission would be increasing staff. Instead they are down by 10%.

 

[Chi Meson]

Hey, priorities.

Now watch this drive.

 

[edward]

Hey, priorities.

Now watch this drive.

Thats about it.

One would think that when selling toys for two year olds they would have found the time during the last two years to run a 30 second $12 lead paint test.

http://shop.learningcurve.com/product/detail/LC99001A

 

[Mk]

*raises hand*

Skepticism anybody?

How dangerous are toy trains that have lead paint on them? Just how much lead will the children ingest?

Why is lead used in paint? Because they sell it by weight, or what?

 

[Evo]

*raises hand*

Skepticism anybody?

How dangerous are toy trains that have lead paint on them? Just how much lead will the children ingest?

Why is lead used in paint? Because they sell it by weight, or what?

Thanks for bringing that up. I never ate my toys when I was little. If your child eats toys... You might have a bigger problem than paint.

How many toys would the child have to eat for it to be a health hazard?

 

[edward]

Thanks for bringing that up. I never ate my toys when I was little. If your child eats toys... You might have a bigger problem than paint.

How many toys would the child have to eat for it to be a health hazard?

Why would you think that a child would eat the entire toy?? I can't believe that educated adults would make light of this.

Are you sure you remember what you were chewing on when you were two years old? Most two year olds will chew on just about anything, and lead has a slightly sweet taste.

There is enough lead on just one of those little toys to cause a significant IQ drop by adolescence. Lead tends to stay in the body unless it is diagnosed and removed by chelation therapy.

The safe level for lead in the fetus and toddlers is ZERO. It affects the development of the brain and central nervous system. The child doesn't have to chew on the wooden toys to be exposed. As the toys bump and rub together the child ends up with lead dust on his/her hands which gets transferred to the mouth. The dust can also be inhaled. That is why lead based paint was banned in 1978.

Lead was used in paint because it made the pigment more vibrant. It also acted as a preservative because it killed mold that can grow inside of a paint can.

Lead-based paint is a major source of lead poisoning for children and can also affect adults. In children, lead poisoning can cause irreversible brain damage and can impair mental functioning. It can retard mental and physical development and reduce attention span. It can also retard fetal development even at extremely low levels of lead. In adults, it can cause irritability, poor muscle coordination, and nerve damage to the sense organs and nerves controlling the body.

http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/5054.html

 

[Evo]

Why would you think that a child would eat the entire toy?? I can't believe that educated adults would make light of this.

Are you sure you remember what you were chewing on when you were two years old? Most two year olds will chew on just about anything, and lead has a slightly sweet taste.

There is enough lead on just one of those little toys to cause a significant IQ drop by adolescence. Lead tends to stay in the body unless it is diagnosed and removed by chelation therapy.

The safe level for lead in the fetus and toddlers is ZERO. It affects the development of the brain and central nervous system. The child doesn't have to chew on the wooden toys to be exposed. As the toys bump and rub together the child ends up with lead dust on his/her hands which gets transferred to the mouth. The dust can also be inhaled. That is why lead based paint was banned in 1978.

Lead was used in paint because it made the pigment more vibrant. It also acted as a preservative because it killed mold that can grow inside of a paint can.



http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PUBS/5054.html

No, I didn't mean eat the entire toy. I wasn't a mouther and neither were my girls.

Edward, how much lead was found in the paint?

When poisoning from lead paint was a serious problem, there was a very high percentage of lead and the kids were eating piles of lead paint chips, like from around window sills.

While paint with lead is stupid on a child's toy, how much of a threat is this? I know children are more susceptable, but I have not seen anything that says how much lead was in the paint.

In older homes, there is still old lead paint and lead soldering on water pipes.

Here's a good reference on lead paint.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/lead/6007.html

 

[edward]

Edward, how much lead was found in the paint?

While paint with lead is stupid on a child's toy, how much of a threat is this? I know children are more susceptible, but I have not seen anything that says how much lead was in the paint.

In older homes, there is still old lead paint and lead soldering on water pipes.

I doubt that we will ever know the exact amount, but lead based paint is manufactured by a standard formula which probably hasn't changed over the years, even in China. Lead is typically in paint in the form of lead oxide or lead carbonate. And there was definitely enough lead that the toys were recalled.

The problem with this particular situation is that the train sets are very popular and they are a hands on toy. Ironically they are also an expensive toy. This fact caught a lot of people, myself included, off guard.

The Center for Disease Control and Prevention only lists a supposedly safe level of lead in the blood. That level is 10mcg per deciliter, that is about 100 parts per billion. Several recent studies done in 2003 show that any level of lead in the blood of a child will have some adverse effect.

Even exposure to "safe" amounts of lead damages children's intelligence, reveals a new study. In fact, lead's effect on intelligence is proportionately greater at low blood levels, meaning most of the damage is caused before the maximum level is reached.

"Our study shows there is no discernible threshold for the adverse effects of lead exposure," says Bruce Lanphear, a pediatrician at the Children's Hospital Medical Center in Cincinnati, Ohio.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3639
http://www.urmc.rochester.edu/pr/news/story.cfm?id=230
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/April03/lowlead.kids.ssl.html

Although the lead paint used in older houses will continue to be a problem, we are now aware of the danger and steps have been taken to alleviate the chance of exposure. The two worst places in older homes are outside around the base of the house and inside under window sills.

Lead test kits are readily available at most hardware stores for about $12.

 

[turbo]

China is opposed to limiting the amount of lead in children's costume jewelry, so why should lead paint be a concern to them?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/2007-06-17-china-lead-usat_N.htm

 

[edward]

According to the EPA:

"(9) Lead-based paint. The term 'lead-based paint' means paint or
other surface coatings that contain lead in excess of 1.0
milligrams per centimeter squared or 0.5 percent by weight."

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/titleten.html

That's a helluva lot of lead on a child's toy when compared to the zero tolerance safety level for small children found in the 2003 studies.

The federal government has some catching up to do.

 

[Evo]

I doubt that we will ever know the exact amount, but lead based paint is manufactured by a standard formula which probably hasn't changed over the years, even in China. Lead is typically in paint in the form of lead oxide or lead carbonate. And there was definitely enough lead that the toys were recalled.

Any amount of lead is unacceptable in children's toys, IMHO. I am just wondering as MK did if it was a significant threat or just a precaution.

There are problems with pottery used for food and beverages being painted with lead paint still coming from Mexico. There was a family suffering from lead poisoning a couple of weeks ago from drinking orange juice they stored in a painted jug they purchased in Mexico. I thought everyone knew not to eat or drink off of Mexican pottery, I knew about it back in 1974 on my first trip to Mexico.

 

[edward]

Any amount of lead is unacceptable in children's toys, IMHO. I am just wondering as MK did if it was a significant threat or just a precaution.

There are problems with pottery used for food and beverages being painted with lead paint still coming from Mexico. There was a family suffering from lead poisoning a couple of weeks ago from drinking orange juice they stored in a painted jug they purchased in Mexico. I thought everyone knew not to eat or drink off of Mexican pottery, I knew about it back in 1974 on my first trip to Mexico.

We also have a lot of tableware and decorative cups coming in from China. I doubt that any of it is tested. BTW the most common symtom of lead exposure in adults is high blood presure.

 

[FredGarvin]

I have seen quite a few other engineering practices that have come out of China that would be considered criminal if done here in the states. The issue here though is not the Chinese but the companies that export their goods from China. It is their responsibility to verify that the goods sold in the US are safe to OUR standards.

 

[Cyrus]

Man, I've used lead based paints to paint full size trains over the summers in high school. I'm not crazy, and I had that stuff on my hands and could smell the fumes.

Give me a break. Dust from the toy train? Is the child going to file the paint off? Is thomas the tank engine a toy for toddlers?

I watched thomas the tank engine when I was probably 5 or 6 years old.

Side:

If you want to paint the door of your house, use lead paint. It will be very nice and it will last a long time too. Lead paints really are great. The color is fantastic. (But it costs A LOT more money becasuse the good stuff is imported from Dutch-landia).

 

[Cyrus]

Sorry, this toy ant for kids under 5.

http://www.kbtoys.com/g/toys/big/399604.jpg

BTW, I had one of these growing up and a Lionel train set, (which I still have). GREAT TOY for a little boy.

Much better than the stupid toys I see kids playing with these days at that age. All junk that does not involve 'building' something. You had to read the instructions, (or look at the picture), and set down the tracks into a figure 8. Then you could change it and add more track if you got a different train set. (Same for Lionel).

A pre-lego type toy.

 

[turbo]

The toy may be a bit "mature" for a toddler who likes to test about everything with his mouth, but many children that are the appropriate age for that toy will have younger siblings in the house and/or the children of friends or relatives visiting.

It is probably a good idea to point out that the role of lead oxide (which is a very white powder) in paint is to provide opacity, so thinner coats can be used and still get coverage. Titanium dioxide (another very white powder) is a wonderful opacifier, but it is very expensive, so don't expect the Chinese factories to switch to it unless they are forced to do so.

 

[edward]

Sorry, this toy ant for kids under 5.

http://www.kbtoys.com/g/toys/big/399604.jpg

My grandson was putting that simple layout together when he was three and a half.

Note in the link below, just under the "add to cart", it says two years and up.

http://shop.learningcurve.com/product/detail/LC99001A

This layout in your post says age three years and up.

http://shop.learningcurve.com/product/detail/LC99529

Ironically these are an excellent hands on learning toy, because they can be added on to as the child learns and grows, the layouts can become more and more complex with multiple tracks, switches ect. They are well built so that there was no choking problem due to small parts.

But bear in mind, most two year olds will chew anything they get their hands on.

 

[NoTime]

Any amount of lead is unacceptable in children's toys, IMHO. I am just wondering as MK did if it was a significant threat or just a precaution.

There are problems with pottery used for food and beverages being painted with lead paint still coming from Mexico. There was a family suffering from lead poisoning a couple of weeks ago from drinking orange juice they stored in a painted jug they purchased in Mexico. I thought everyone knew not to eat or drink off of Mexican pottery, I knew about it back in 1974 on my first trip to Mexico.

Is the orange juice story new or a replay of a Reader's Digest story from the 60's?
It had the same exact scenerio.

I wonder how much of a real problem it is myself.
IIRC they outlawed sales of lead paint in the US back in 78.
I don't think that included products that already had it.
My first son was already too old to eat stuff off the floor by then.
When I was a kid it was the only kind of paint there was.

There seems to be some essential conflict between one group that claims they can measure small differences in intelligence and another that claims all intelligence tests are meaningless.

 

[edward]

Is the orange juice story new or a replay of a Reader's Digest story from the 60's?
It had the same exact scenerio.

Lead in Mexican pottery and ceramic ware is a continuing problem, people have just become more aware of it.

The latest problem is the lead in Mexican candy that is sold in this country. Albeit it is primarily purchased by illegals.

There seems to be some essential conflict between one group that claims they can measure small differences in intelligence and another that claims all intelligence tests are meaningless.

I would like to see a link that suggests that lead in toddlers does not affect normal neurological development, including IQ.

 

[Cyrus]

Even exposure to "safe" amounts of lead damages children's intelligence, reveals a new study. In fact, lead's effect on intelligence is proportionately greater at low blood levels, meaning most of the damage is caused before the maximum level is reached.

"Our study shows there is no discernible threshold for the adverse effects of lead exposure," says Bruce Lanphear, a pediatrician at the Children's Hospital Medical Center in Cincinnati, Ohio.

From your quote. So basically, they could not find anything? Otherwise there would be a clear indication when kids started showing problems.

 

[NoTime]

Lead in Mexican pottery and ceramic ware is a continuing problem, people have just become more aware of it.

The article I read showed a picture of the jug with what looked to be several tablespoons of white powder next to it.
The caption was to the effect that this was the lead they extracted from the jug and it was now safe to use.
My thought at the time was that if you disolved that much material out of the jug it would now be porous and just leave a puddle if you tried to use it.
Frankly, I wonder just how much of a myth this is.

I would like to see a link that suggests that lead in toddlers does not affect normal neurological development, including IQ.

For one thing lead is an environmental component.
You ar not going to find a lead free fetus or toddler.
It's in the water you drink, the food you eat and apparently in the air you breath.
Calling it pollution is questionable since that would be there even if we didn't exist.
So the question becomes "How much does lead paint affect your lead loading?" Is it significant in terms of your other sources?

Besides, those of us that were born and grew up with leaded gasoline, lead paint and lead water pipes really have to wonder if the claimed neurological changes are of much meaning in terms of normal human variance.
How much of this is hype by government agencies justifying their existence?

 

[Moonbear]

Sorry, this toy ant for kids under 5.

My grandson was putting that simple layout together when he was three and a half.

Note in the link below, just under the "add to cart", it says two years and up...
This layout in your post says age three years and up.

Yes, my nephew, who only just turned 4 has been getting Thomas the Tank trains since he was 2. Toddlers LOVE them. You don't have to get the whole track to start, they just like pushing the trains around (and sucking on them, like everything else you put in their hands at age 2). They're large enough they won't swallow them, so are considered safe for toddlers. Though, not if they have lead in them of course.

I agree with Evo, ANY amount of lead is unsafe for toddlers. It can cause severe mental retardation in a developing child. Adult exposure is still hazardous, but not nearly as hazardous as exposure during all that early brain development. You sure as heck don't put it on a toy you know is bound to wind up in the mouth of a toddler.

 

[Moonbear]

From your quote. So basically, they could not find anything? Otherwise there would be a clear indication when kids started showing problems.

No, what it means is that lead at ANY level is hazardous, even the lowest levels observed. In other words, zero lead, no ill effects, lowest exposure recorded, serious adverse effects.

 

[MeJennifer]

Man, I've used lead based paints to paint full size trains over the summers in high school. I'm not crazy, and I had that stuff on my hands and could smell the fumes.

Give me a break. Dust from the toy train? Is the child going to file the paint off? Is thomas the tank engine a toy for toddlers?

I watched thomas the tank engine when I was probably 5 or 6 years old.

Side:

If you want to paint the door of your house, use lead paint. It will be very nice and it will last a long time too. Lead paints really are great. The color is fantastic. (But it costs A LOT more money becasuse the good stuff is imported from Dutch-landia).

I really don't understand what your problem is cyrusabdollahi. Lead in children's toys is a problem. I presume you are not a parent, otherwise I cannot imagine anyone reacting the way you do to this. Are you perhaps trolling?

 

[Chi Meson]

My first kid, Nell, got a simple Thomas kit for her second birthday. Two of the four parts are on the list (the boxcar and the caboose). We have since expanded our brood and Thomas parts to include two sons and James with his tender.

The caboose is the most-chewed, followed closely by the Box car. James escaped the chew phases of all three kids.

While annoyed, I am not anxious about it since all three have been tested for lead ( apparently a requirement in Rhode Island where our pediatrician is).

I'm still thinking of joining the inevitable class-action because, even if no harm is done, I want to "send a message." (:sarcasm smily: by "send a message" I really mean "buy a boat.")

 

[Anne771]

Thomas and Friends recall

I see a lot of posts dismissing the lead paint in in these toys. Some are acting like it's a joke or no big deal.

I have three children, and my two year old loves playing with and chewing on the train pieces. I had him tested and he does have lead poisoning. He has no other risk factors for lead. (we live in a new house, etc)

People need to take this a little more seriously and have their children tested if they played with these toys.

 

[Mk]

Thanks for bringing that up. I never ate my toys when I was little. If your child eats toys... You might have a bigger problem than paint.

How many toys would the child have to eat for it to be a health hazard?

The safe level for lead in the fetus and toddlers is ZERO. It affects the development of the brain and central nervous system. The child doesn't have to chew on the wooden toys to be exposed. As the toys bump and rub together the child ends up with lead dust on his/her hands which gets transferred to the mouth. The dust can also be inhaled. That is why lead based paint was banned in 1978.

What I meant was—

You might say that ionizing radiation, or smoking has a safe level of ZERO. But getting an x-ray (or stepping outside for that matter), or smoking one cigarette is generally not considered harmful from negligibility. What I was asking, was that if this train set was more like getting an x-ray or not. Because it is only a little bit of paint on a few toys probably with a finish over it. That's what I was thinking.

 

[edward]

What I meant was—

You might say that ionizing radiation, or smoking has a safe level of ZERO. But getting an x-ray (or stepping outside for that matter), or smoking one cigarette is generally not considered harmful from negligibility. What I was asking, was that if this train set was more like getting an x-ray or not. Because it is only a little bit of paint on a few toys probably with a finish over it. That's what I was thinking.

It was a lot of paint on millions of toys. I gave a link to the EPA indicating that each of the toys had enough lead content to drastically affect the IQ of a toddler. I am thinking that it was a minimum exposure of 10mcg per sq cm. Even that figure has now been disputed by recent medical studies. I don't think there is anyway to quantify or compare a toddler chewing on a toy to an X ray because of the variation of lead exposure.

Ionizing radiation and smoking affect people later in life and even at that not all people are affected the same. The affect of lead in children, is identical, immediate, and irreversible.

You are assuming that there was a non toxic finish over the paint. I am assuming that their was not. The only non toxic sealer that I know of is soy based and very expensive.

Regardless a child chewing on the toy would dislodge both sealer (finish) and paint.

Try to understand that the toys went to the one segment of the population most likely to be affected by lead and most likely to be exposed to it by their actions.

It is not like a kid stepping out for a smoke.