Showing that Equivalence Relations are the Same.

In summary, the conversation discusses defining ~ and ~~ as equivalence relations in a group and subgroup, and the task of proving their equivalence. The initial reaction was that they were the same, but upon further understanding of cosets, it was determined that they are not necessarily equivalent. The idea of using normal subgroups to prove their equivalence is also mentioned. The conversation concludes with a request for help in finding a counterexample.
  • #1
jmjlt88
96
0
Let G be a group and let H be a subgroup of G.

Define ~ as a~b iff ab-1εH.

Define ~~ as a~~b iff a-1bεH.

The book I am using wanted us to prove that each was an equivalence relation, which was easy. Then, it asked if these equivalence relations were the same, if so, prove it. My initial reaction was yes. I did not prove it, but I did write down a quick idea surronded by question marks and "ask PhysicsForum!." Now that I know a bit more about cosets, I say no.

For my idea, I wrote something like this. [Remember, I am writing to me.] :redface:

"Show that a~b implies a~~b and vice versa. If a~b, then ab-1εH. Show that this implies that a and b-1 are in H... then a-1 and b are in H. Hence, a-1bεH and a~~b... Similar going the other way... But, not sure if this even works ? Ask PhysicsForum before trying to write this out."

Well, any help?? :)
 
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  • #2
Try to find a counterexample.

I claim that it is true for normal subgroups, can you prove that?

So to find a counterexample, pick your favorite nonnormal subgroup and do something with it.
 
  • #3
Thanks! :)
 

Related to Showing that Equivalence Relations are the Same.

What is an equivalence relation?

An equivalence relation is a relation between two objects that is reflexive, symmetric, and transitive. This means that for any object a, the relation holds between a and itself, it also holds between a and b if it holds between b and a, and if it holds between a and b and between b and c, it also holds between a and c.

How do you show that two equivalence relations are equivalent?

To show that two equivalence relations are equivalent, you must prove that they have the same properties of reflexivity, symmetry, and transitivity. This can be done by showing that the two relations have the same elements and that they behave in the same way when compared to each other.

What is an example of two equivalent equivalence relations?

An example of two equivalent equivalence relations is the relation of congruence modulo n and the relation of equality on the set of integers. Both of these relations have the same elements, and they both behave in the same way when compared to each other, making them equivalent.

Why is it important to show that equivalence relations are equivalent?

Showing that equivalence relations are equivalent is important because it helps us understand the relationship between different objects or concepts. It also allows us to simplify complicated relations by showing that they are equivalent to simpler ones.

What are some strategies for proving equivalence of two relations?

Some strategies for proving equivalence of two relations include using definitions and properties of equivalence relations, using examples to demonstrate equivalence, and using logical reasoning to show that the two relations behave in the same way.

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