- #71
Zero
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/jan_feb97/morris.html
Here's an interesting argument...
Here's an interesting argument...
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I think the biology of it refutes you..plus, while a fetus may be a potential person, the mother is a REAL person, and therefore should have the final say over her body...unless you think a woman is nothing more than an incubator.Originally posted by NavidRules
A fetus is a potential human. It is safe to assume that the fetus will become a human/person, therefore killing the fetus destroys the potential human, therefore killing a human. I disagree with abortion, unless rape is involved. The only thing is, if abortion was illegal except for rape cases, all women who want abortion will say they were raped. So based in a good society, abortion is wrong, because you disallow the fetus to live.
Think of it like this, what if the fetus you killed would have grown up to find a cure for cancer/aids/any other major disease. The fact is that you don't know who the fetus will grow up to be. You will be killing off potential people, and even if the possibility of the fetus growing to do something great is slim, there is still the possibility and since we killing them doesn't give them even a chance, it would be wrong to go for abortion. I agree with ADOPTION, if the problem is raising the child, adoption is always a better way to go, because you are giving the fetus-soon-to-be-human-being a chance for survival.
For the same reason I don't agree with euthinasia because you simply don't know what the future can hold, and wherever there's potential, a chance should be given.
What do you think?
So is a rock, with a few billion years of gestation time. So is a sperm and an egg. Or an animal. The "life starts at conception" idea is drawing a very arbitary line...A fetus is a potential human.
What is society but what people want? On such a basis, I can define the salvation of every bacteria as "good", and make everybody evil.So based in a good society, abortion is wrong, because you disallow the fetus to live.
What if the fetus becomes a new Hitler? This argument is worthless.Think of it like this, what if the fetus you killed would have grown up to find a cure for cancer/aids/any other major disease.
Here it comes...if people dare to have sex for pleasure and get pregnant, their punishment is a baby...this is what it always boils down to: wanting to control people's sex lives, or punish them for it. All the talk about a fetus is smokescreen. This is why the majority of anti-abortion activists are also anti-birth control, anti-AIDS prevention, anti-sex ed. They couldn't care less about babies...they want to wage a war on those of us with a healthy sexuality which doesn't match their repression.Originally posted by NavidRules
Zero:
No i don't think a women is an incubator.
Well with the idealogy that anybody can do whatever to their body, because its their body, why are some drugs illegal? People do it to their own bodies, shouldn't they too be able to do whatever to their own body?...How does biology refute me? A fetus WILL grow to be a human if it is given the chance. I do not doubt that the mother is a REAL person, what I'm saying is they choose to have sex, one result of having sex is creating another being (unless biology refutes that too) the mother chose to have sex, but chooses to avoid the consequence? People shouldn't have sex without knowing the possible consequences. If the mother can not raise the child, there's adoption.
FZ +:
"So is a rock, with a few billion years of gestation time. So is a sperm and an egg. Or an animal. "
When i saw a fetus is a potential human, it is and that's a fact. What you're saying is an exaggeration of what I said. The existence of a rock, will not result in a human. The existence of a fetus, will result in a human. It all goes back to the action: SEX. The act of having sex may result in a fertilized egg, and thus a fetus. When a fetus exists, it will become a human...and sadly a rock will not.
"What is society but what people want? On such a basis, I can define the salvation of every bacteria as "good", and make everybody evil."
I agree, but what i was saying is, when we kill a fetus, we are killing a human. And the reason why we must consider a fetus a human is because when u do draw a line of when life starts it will be different to different cultures. Ancient Rome thought a born baby was inhuman until it was a few weeks old, so they wouldn't think twice before killing the baby if it wasn't a few weeks old. The opinion of what a human is changes, but when u say that life starts with a fetus, you can't go wrong, because one it is dependant on the same necessities as us. Two, a fetus will become a human if given these necessities that again we too rely on. And lastly a fetus looks like a human, it can be distinguished as a human, its cells are becoming more specialized and is becoming a human.
"What if the fetus becomes a new Hitler? "
You're right what if this person becomes a new Hitler? My point was that you simply don't know. You don't know who this fetus will become, and shouldn't deny the fetus a future. Which ever way you look at it, you can't say you know who the person will become, and shouldn't kill it, because who knows WHAT IF the person were to find a cure for a disease. What if the person grows up to have children...you are denying the right to exist. The problem is too many people have sex without thinking of the consequence, and abortion is just an easy way out for these people.
That's your opinion...and you are welcome to it. Medically speaking, though, it doesn't carry much weight...Originally posted by PsYcHo_FiSh
Abortion is murder. After a brief period a child does indeed begin to form. Why can't people be responsible and not **** without condoms or birth control? For that matter, why can't they just abstain until they get married!
Anyways, have you ever heard of so called 'late term' abortion? Its where the baby has already reached full term (ie if you took it out it would be fully mature) but is still inside the woman when they suck the babies brains out. Yes, they do this.
What's the difference of killing a baby outside the uterus and killing one inside a uterus?
My opinion, everyone should take responsibility. If everyone did that, this society would be better.
Yes it will. Give it time.The existence of a rock, will not result in a human.
No it won't. It requires months of nutrients taken from the mother's body, continual warm temperatures, feeding of oxygen through the placenta... etc etc. A fetus can only become a human in very special circumstances, which the mother provides. It requires an active participation, just as the act of fertilisation is an active participation and so on. The act of sex is not special at all from this criteria.The existence of a fetus, will result in a human.
No it is not. We do not need a placenta. We do not need anyone to breathe for us. In this respect, a dog is more like us than a fetus.because one it is dependant on the same necessities as us
Like a big mac?Two, a fetus will become a human if given these necessities that again we too rely on.
A corpse looks like a human, and can be distinguished as a human. But it does not act like a human - and neither does a fetus. A fetus acts like a fetus.And lastly a fetus looks like a human, it can be distinguished as a human
But you can't argue like this from the basis we just don't know. Because we don't know, we cannot ignore the possibility of the human result becoming harmful. Because we don't know, we can only look at the fetus as a neutral entity, whose future is not set. It makes no sense to talk about what the fetus may do - since it may not do so. We do not know the future, and we cannot block out the possibility of darkness. This sense makes no use.Which ever way you look at it, you can't say you know who the person will become, and shouldn't kill it, because who knows WHAT IF the person were to find a cure for a disease.
No it does not, as history has repeatedly shown. An attitude of "we know better", of hiding and driving underground, of patronising and scaremongering, can only lead to oppression and terror.If everyone did that, this society would be better.