Plateau equation from Newtons law

So, I'll assume you're good to go.In summary, the Plateau equation, which describes the minimal surface of a soap film, can be derived from a variational principle by minimizing the area of the soap film. This is done through the Euler-Lagrange equation, which results in the expression: \frac{\partial}{\partial x} \left( \frac{z_x}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}\right) +\frac{\partial}{\partial y} \left( \frac{z_y}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}\right) = 0. This can also be derived
  • #1
Sasha86
2
0

Homework Statement


The Plateau equation (minimal surface of a soap film) can easily be derived from variational principle. We want to minimize the area of the soap film,
[itex]
S = \int \sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2} \, \mathrm{d}x \, \mathrm{d}y
[/itex],
and through Euler-Lagrange equation we get the Plateau equation,
[itex]
\frac{\partial}{\partial x} \left(
\frac{z_x}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}
\right) +
\frac{\partial}{\partial y} \left(
\frac{z_y}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}
\right) = 0.
[/itex]
I'd like to derive this equation from Newtons law.


Homework Equations


[itex]
z_x = \frac{\partial z}{\partial x} \\
z_y = \frac{\partial z}{\partial y} \\
z_{xx} = \frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial x^2} \\
z_{yy} = \frac{\partial^2 z}{\partial y^2}
[/itex]
[itex]\gamma[/itex] - surface tension


The Attempt at a Solution


I'll write the forces for a small element of the film, whose projection to plane [itex]z = 0[/itex] is a square [itex]\mathrm{d}x \, \mathrm{d}y[/itex]. Sum of the forces on each element must by Newton be 0. Area of the element is [itex]\mathrm{d}S = \mathrm{d}x \, \mathrm{d}y \sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2} = \sqrt{\mathrm{d}x^2 + \mathrm{d}z^2} \sqrt{\mathrm{d}y^2 + \mathrm{d}z^2} \frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2} \sqrt{1 + z_y^2}}[/itex].

The work needed to increase a surface is [itex]\mathrm{d}W = \gamma \mathrm{d}A[/itex] ([itex]F \, \mathrm{d}x = y \, \mathrm{d}x[/itex] for a simple square). Imagine I want to stretch the element in the [itex]x[/itex] direction. Then the element stretches by [itex]\mathrm{d} \left( \sqrt{\mathrm{d}x^2 + \mathrm{d}y^2} \right)[/itex] and the force needed to overcome the tension is [itex]\gamma \, \mathrm{d}y \, \sqrt{\frac{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}{1 + z_x^2}}[/itex]. I'll only be interested in [itex]z[/itex] component of the force so I need to multiply it by [itex]\frac{\mathrm{d}z}{\sqrt{\mathrm{d}x^2 + \mathrm{d}z^2}}[/itex].
Similarly for stretching in [itex]y[/itex] direction.

Now I'll mark with [itex]\mathrm{d}_x[/itex] a small diference between [itex]x[/itex] and [itex]x + \mathrm{d}x[/itex] and similarly for [itex]y[/itex]. I then write the sum (over four sides of the small element) of the forces in [itex]z[/itex] direction on the small element,
[itex]
\mathrm{d}_x \left(
\gamma \, \mathrm{d}y \, \frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_x^2} z_x \right) +
\mathrm{d}_y \left(
\gamma \, \mathrm{d}x \, \frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_y^2} z_y \right) = 0.
[/itex]
Divide the expression bx [itex]\gamma \, \mathrm{d}x \, \mathrm{d}y[/itex] and get,
[itex]
\frac{\partial}{\partial x} \left( z_x \frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_x^2} \right) +
\frac{\partial}{\partial y} \left( z_y \frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_y^2} \right) = 0,
[/itex]
which isn't the Plateau equation.

Also, if I write the forces in the [itex]x[/itex] direction I get,
[itex]
\mathrm{d}_x \left(
\gamma \, \mathrm{d}y \, \frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_x^2} \right) = 0,
[/itex]
which suggests that the expression between the braces depends only on [itex]y[/itex]. Take this into account in the upper equation and get,
[itex]
\frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_x^2} z_{xx} +
\frac{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}{1 + z_y^2} z_{yy} = 0.
[/itex]
This is even worse. What am I missing?
 
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  • #2
Hello, and welcome to PF!

A couple of things that I noticed that don't seem correct to me, but maybe I'm just not following your work.

First, you have the following expression for the force:
Sasha86 said:
...the force needed to overcome the tension is [itex]\gamma \, \mathrm{d}y \, \sqrt{\frac{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}{1 + z_x^2}}[/itex].

If this is the force on one edge of the surface element, then I would think the magnitude of the force would be ##\gamma## times the length of the edge, which doesn't seem to be what you have.

Second, I don't think your expression for getting the z-component of the force is correct:
I'll only be interested in [itex]z[/itex] component of the force so I need to multiply it by [itex]\frac{\mathrm{d}z}{\sqrt{\mathrm{d}x^2 + \mathrm{d}z^2}}[/itex].

The force will point in a direction that is tangent to the surface and also perpendicular to the edge. In general, the force vector will have nonzero x, y, and z components. So, the factor for finding the z-component will be more complicated than your expression.

That's how I see it anyway.
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Ah yes, I stupidly made an assumption that on [itex]x[/itex] and [itex]x + \mathrm{d}x[/itex] edges, where [itex]y = const.[/itex], the forces don't have the [itex]y[/itex] component. I then tailored my derivation around this assumption.

If I now try it again.
Force on [itex]x[/itex] and [itex]x + \mathrm{d}x[/itex] edges is [itex]\gamma \sqrt{\mathrm{d}y^2 + \mathrm{d}z^2}[/itex]. This force is tangent to the surface and perpendicular to the edge. The normal to the surface is [itex]\mathbf{n} = \left( -z_x, -z_y, 1 \right)[/itex] (I'm not normalizing the vectors here) and the edge has the direction [itex]\mathbf{s} = \left( 0, 1, z_y \right)[/itex]. The force then must be perpendicular to both this vectors and has the direction, [itex]\mathbf{s} \times \mathbf{n} = \left( 1 + z_y^2, -z_x z_y, z_x \right)[/itex]. The [itex]z[/itex] component of the force is then proportional to [itex]\frac{z_x}{\sqrt{\left( 1 + z_y^2 \right)^2 + z_x^2 z_y^2 + z_x^2}} = \frac{z_x}{\sqrt{1 + z_y^2} \sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}}[/itex].
Similarly for the other two edges.

Similarly as before I sum the forces over the edges and with [itex]\mathrm{d}_x[/itex] mark a small difference between [itex]x - \mathrm{d}x[/itex] (force of the left neighbouring element) and [itex]x + \mathrm{d}x[/itex] (force of the right neighbouring element). The forces are then,
[itex]
\mathrm{d}_x \left( \gamma \mathrm\, {d}y \, \frac{z_x}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}} \right) + \mathrm{d}_y \left( \gamma \mathrm\, {d}x \, \frac{z_y}{\sqrt{1 + z_x^2 + z_y^2}} \right) = 0.
[/itex]
Divide this by [itex]2 \gamma \, \mathrm{d}x \, \mathrm{d}y[/itex] and you get the Plateau equation.


Thank you for your input. It's been very helpful.
 
  • #4
That all looks correct to me. Good.
 
  • #5




The Plateau equation is a result of minimizing the area of a soap film, which is a surface tension phenomenon. Newton's laws, on the other hand, deal with forces and motion of objects in a gravitational or inertial frame. While it may be possible to derive the Plateau equation using Newton's laws, it would not be a direct or intuitive approach. The variational principle provides a more elegant and natural explanation for the behavior of soap films. Additionally, the Plateau equation is a partial differential equation, and it is not clear how Newton's laws, which are based on ordinary differential equations, would lead to it. Therefore, it is more appropriate to use the variational principle to derive the Plateau equation, as it is specifically designed for problems involving surfaces and minimizing certain quantities.
 

Related to Plateau equation from Newtons law

1. What is the Plateau equation and how is it related to Newton's law?

The Plateau equation is a mathematical expression that describes the shape of a soap film or bubble. It is derived from Newton's law of surface tension, which states that the force on a liquid surface is proportional to the difference in pressure on either side of the surface.

2. How is the Plateau equation used in scientific research?

The Plateau equation is used in various fields of science, such as physics, chemistry, and materials science. It helps researchers understand the behavior of liquid surfaces and can be applied to study the stability of bubbles, foam structures, and droplets.

3. Can the Plateau equation be applied to real-life situations?

Yes, the Plateau equation has practical applications in industries such as food and beverage, pharmaceuticals, and cosmetics. It is used to optimize the shape and stability of products, such as foams, emulsions, and coatings.

4. Is the Plateau equation a simple or complex mathematical formula?

The Plateau equation may seem complex at first glance, but it is a relatively simple formula that can be solved using basic calculus. However, its application in different scenarios may require additional mathematical concepts and techniques.

5. Are there any limitations to the Plateau equation?

Like any scientific equation, the Plateau equation has its limitations. It assumes ideal conditions, such as a flat surface and homogeneous liquid, which may not always be the case in real-life situations. Thus, its predictions may not always be accurate, and adjustments may need to be made for more complex systems.

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