Partial differentiation: thermodynamic relations

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of an alternative method, using the partial derivative of entropy with respect to magnetic field, to calculate the change in entropy of magnetic salts. The method is deemed only an approximation and may not be as accurate as the traditional method of integration.
  • #1
unscientific
1,734
13

Homework Statement



This question is about entropy of magnetic salts. I got up to the point of finding H1, the final applied field.


The Attempt at a Solution





But instead of doing integration I used this:

dS = (∂S/∂H)*dH

= (M0/4α)(ln 4)2


I removed the negative sign because they wanted decrease in S.


I know integration is the sure-fire way to get Sinitial - Sfinal but why is this method wrong? Is it because this method is only an approximation?
 

Attachments

  • entropy.jpg
    entropy.jpg
    18.3 KB · Views: 382
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
unscientific said:
But instead of doing integration I used this:

dS = (∂S/∂H)*dH

= (M0/4α)(ln 4)2 I removed the negative sign because they wanted decrease in S.I know integration is the sure-fire way to get Sinitial - Sfinal but why is this method wrong? Is it because this method is only an approximation?

I'm not sure exactly what you'e done here. [itex]dH[/itex] is a differential, so it makes no sense to say that [itex] \left( \frac{ \partial S}{ \partial H } \right)_{T} dH = \frac{M_0}{4\alpha}\ln(4)^2[/itex].

If you Taylor expand [itex]S(H, T)[/itex] around the point H=0, holding T constant. then to first order you get

[tex]S(H_1, T) \approx \left. \left. \left( \frac{ \partial S}{ \partial H } \right)_{T} \right. \right|_{H=H_1} \cdot (H_1-0)= \frac{M_0}{4\alpha}\ln(4)^2[/tex]

but that is only a first order approximation.
 
  • #3
gabbagabbahey said:
I'm not sure exactly what you'e done here. [itex]dH[/itex] is a differential, so it makes no sense to say that [itex] \left( \frac{ \partial S}{ \partial H } \right)_{T} dH = \frac{M_0}{4\alpha}\ln(4)^2[/itex].

If you Taylor expand [itex]S(H, T)[/itex] around the point H=0, holding T constant. then to first order you get

[tex]S(H_1, T) \approx \left. \left. \left( \frac{ \partial S}{ \partial H } \right)_{T} \right. \right|_{H=H_1} \cdot (H_1-0)= \frac{M_0}{4\alpha}\ln(4)^2[/tex]

but that is only a first order approximation.

What I meant was:

dS = (∂S/∂H)*dH + (∂S/∂T)dT

But since dT = 0 since T is kept constant,

dS = (∂S/∂H)*dH
 
  • #4
unscientific said:
What I meant was:

dS = (∂S/∂H)*dH + (∂S/∂T)dT

But since dT = 0 since T is kept constant,

dS = (∂S/∂H)*dH

That's completely correct, but how did you get from that to (M0/4α)(ln 4)2?
 

Related to Partial differentiation: thermodynamic relations

1. What is the purpose of partial differentiation in thermodynamic relations?

Partial differentiation is used in thermodynamic relations to determine the rate of change of a thermodynamic variable with respect to another variable, while holding all other variables constant. This allows us to understand how changes in one variable affect others and helps in analyzing complex thermodynamic systems.

2. How is partial differentiation different from total differentiation?

Partial differentiation involves taking the derivative of a function with respect to one variable while treating all other variables as constants. Total differentiation, on the other hand, considers all variables as changing and takes the derivative of the function with respect to time.

3. What are the key thermodynamic relations that involve partial differentiation?

The key thermodynamic relations that involve partial differentiation include the Maxwell relations, the Clapeyron equation, and the Gibbs-Duhem equation. These relations help in understanding the relationships between different thermodynamic variables and their changes.

4. Can partial differentiation be used to solve thermodynamic problems?

Yes, partial differentiation can be used to solve thermodynamic problems by providing a mathematical framework to understand the behavior of thermodynamic variables. By using partial differentiation, we can determine the direction and magnitude of changes in a thermodynamic system.

5. What are the limitations of using partial differentiation in thermodynamics?

Partial differentiation assumes that all other variables are constant, which may not always be the case in real-world thermodynamic systems. It also does not take into account the effects of external factors such as pressure and temperature, which can impact the behavior of a system. Therefore, partial differentiation should be used with caution and in conjunction with other thermodynamic principles.

Similar threads

  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
612
  • Thermodynamics
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
489
Replies
1
Views
921
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
670
  • Thermodynamics
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • Thermodynamics
Replies
2
Views
798
Replies
1
Views
779
Back
Top