Nabla calculus and conservative forces

In summary, the conversation discusses the problem statement of proving that the magnetic force is only conservative if dB/dt=0. The equations used are F=q[E+(v\timesB)], conservative if ∇\timesF=0, and Maxwells equation: ∇\timesE=-∂B/∂t. The attempt at a solution involves showing that v(∇\cdotB)-B(∇\cdotv)+(B\cdot∇)v-(v\cdot∇)B=0, but it is noted that this does not always equal zero. It is also mentioned that a scalar potential cannot be assigned to the magnetic field, but it does not influence the particle's speed or energy
  • #1
KayDee01
12
0
1. The problem statement

I'm trying to show that the magnetic force is only conservative if dB/dt=0

Homework Equations



F=q[E+(v[itex]\times[/itex]B)]

Conservative if ∇[itex]\times[/itex]F=0

∇[itex]\times[/itex](A[itex]\times[/itex]B)=A(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]B)-B(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]A)+(B[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)A-(A[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)B

Maxwells equation: ∇[itex]\times[/itex]E=-∂B/∂t

The Attempt at a Solution



So the magnetic force field is conservative if
∇[itex]\times[/itex][E+(v[itex]\times[/itex]B)]=0
=∇[itex]\times[/itex]E+∇[itex]\times[/itex](v[itex]\times[/itex]B)
=-∂B/∂t+v(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]B)-B(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]v)+(B[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)v-(v[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)B

So from here I know that I need to show:
v(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]B)-B(∇[itex]\cdot[/itex]v)+(B[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)v-(v[itex]\cdot[/itex]∇)B=0

But when I write it out in all its components I get lost in the algebra. And then it got me thinking, if that equals zero, why doesn't ∇[itex]\times[/itex](A[itex]\times[/itex]B) always equal zero.
I know there's a simple answer to this as we did it in lectures but I can't seem to find it in my notes anywhere.
 
Last edited:
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  • #2
You cannot assign a scalar potential to the magnetic field. You can show that the magnetic field does not influence the speed (and therefore the energy) of the particle, however. This is related to ##\vec{v} \cdot \vec{F}##.
 

Related to Nabla calculus and conservative forces

1. What is Nabla calculus and how is it related to conservative forces?

Nabla calculus, also known as vector calculus, is a mathematical framework used to study and analyze functions and physical phenomena in multiple dimensions. It is closely related to conservative forces, which are forces that do not dissipate energy as an object moves through a closed path. In Nabla calculus, conservative forces can be expressed as the gradient of a scalar potential function.

2. How is the gradient operator used in Nabla calculus?

The gradient operator, denoted by the symbol ∇, is a vector operator used in Nabla calculus to represent the rate of change of a function in multiple dimensions. It is defined as a vector whose components are the partial derivatives of the function with respect to each variable. The gradient operator is useful in analyzing the behavior of conservative forces, as it allows us to determine the direction and magnitude of the force at any given point in space.

3. What is the curl operator and how is it related to conservative forces?

The curl operator, denoted by the symbol ∇×, is another vector operator used in Nabla calculus. It represents the rotation or circulation of a vector field. In the context of conservative forces, the curl of a force field is zero, indicating that the force field is irrotational and has a scalar potential. This means that the force is always perpendicular to the path of motion, and the work done by the force is independent of the path taken.

4. Can Nabla calculus be applied to non-conservative forces?

Yes, Nabla calculus can also be applied to non-conservative forces, such as friction or air resistance. In such cases, the force field is not conservative, and the work done by the force will depend on the path taken. The curl of the force field will also not be zero, indicating that the force has a rotational component. However, Nabla calculus can still be used to analyze and model the behavior of these non-conservative forces.

5. What are some real-world applications of Nabla calculus and conservative forces?

Nabla calculus and conservative forces have numerous applications in physics, engineering, and other fields. Some examples include analyzing the motion of objects under the influence of gravity, studying the behavior of electric and magnetic fields, and understanding the flow of fluids in pipes and channels. These concepts are also essential in the development of technologies such as electronic circuits, aircraft design, and weather prediction models.

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