Job Search Struggles - Graduating with a BS in Applied Physics

[Winzer]

I will have a B.S. in Applied physics with a minor in Computation. Graduating in
one week.

I have been applying to jobs left and right and haven't gotten one call back. It has
been very discouraging. I have been applying to Lockheed, Ball, Nasa, Northrop and Grumman...
Besides the recession, I am trying to look for reasons that I am not even being considered.
My GPA is ok: 3.15. But I feel that I have some other qualities that offset this.
2 graduate physics courses, got A's in both. I have also taken some engineering courses: material science, and fluids. I also did an REU last summer. My University is considered to be in the top 10 for applied physics.

Truly, I have enjoyed my major. But not getting any calls back has left me wondering what value my degree has, relative to EE, Mech, Materials, etc. I am now regretting that I did not specialized in some type of engineering. If I apply for an engineering position, I feel that my resume will instantly be discarded once a EE or Mech applies for the same position since they have specialized knowledge. Companies also need to meet a quota. "Ok we need 2xEEs and 1x Mech. An applied physics major? What do we do with you?"

I also feel that the physics department has been deceiving. According to their stats, app. physics majors on average start in the 45k-50k range. I have know a lot of people in the phys. department I don't think I know anyone starting in that range. It could be me, but I feel that adverts and stats like this are a recruiting tool.

So the plan is to keep applying for jobs for the next 4-5 months. If I don't find anything, then I will go to graduate school for a MS in EE or Materials Engineering. Or, depending on the demand, I'll go for a quant degree (Quantitative Finance). I guess the harsh lesson to learn is that app. physics is a great degree for going to grad school, but not so good for finding a job. I would appreciate any advice.

 

[Pengwuino]

What skills do you have outside of your degree? Programming skills, etc.?

Stupid question to someone with an "applied physics" with "computation" minor, I know, but I suppose it's worth asking.

 

[Winzer]

Programming: Matlab (fluent), Python (fluent, especially in numerical packages SCIPY, NUMPY, etc.), Mathematica (fluent), Linux, all Microsoft Office products, Latex, Solid Works
Electronics: Analog and Digital circuits, micro controllers, oscilloscope, multimeter...
I have some basic skills in machining: Lathe, and mill. Some experience with vacuum systems: turbo pump, cryogenic, mechanical, thermocouple...

 

[Winzer]

Should I include something in the resume about formal meetings I have with my research group every week? I usually submit my findings through a memo. Would this have value?
I also won the physics poster presentation.
Also won best draft in a drafting class.

 

[daveyrocket]

You school should have a career center or something where you can go to talk to someone who will critique your resume, point out job opportunities, etc. Have you been to see them? Maybe part of the reason you're not getting any calls back is because your resume is not formatted well, and they can help you with that. Also, you want your resume to be targeted toward the job descriptions that you're applying for. Have you done any networking?

 

[Stephen Tashi]

I have been applying to Lockheed, Ball, Nasa, Northrop and Grumman...

Is your goal to work for a big corporation?

I've read that most jobs aren't advertised or filled through a formal process. There is also a saying that "Pull beats push" meaning that people get jobs through having a friend who has a friend who knows someone who wants to hire someone etc.

 

[DrummingAtom]

I know this might seem like a stretch but have you considered literally calling smaller companies and asking them directly if they're hiring?

I've only known 2 people in my life that have done this, one of my coworkers and my girlfriend. They both got their jobs this way. It's a very aggressive approach and both of them were backed up against a wall in terms of being unsuccessful with the "just applying" method. Actually my coworker didn't only call he actually went to some of the companies in person to ask. Some were nice, some weren't but it still gets you out there trying to accomplish your goal.

Interesting story, my girlfriend recently had an interview and the HR manager asked "how did you get your last job?" My girlfriend told him how she just started calling companies, etc. According to her, the HR manager was so impressed with her being a "self starter" that he offered her the job on the spot.

I know it's not for everyone but when you're desperate you might think differently. I know I will when I graduate. In the words of Will Smith from the Pursuit of Happiness, "If you want something, go get it. Period." Good luck.

P.S. - This probably won't work with larger companies, because there's an awful lot of screening to talk to anyone. But it can't hurt to try.

 

[Cod]

There's always the federal government. Also, if you have any interest in space (or aviation), you can look into all the privatized space companies (SpaceX, etc.) since they will be getting lots of government contracts in the coming decade.

 

[twofish-quant]

I've read that most jobs aren't advertised or filled through a formal process. There is also a saying that "Pull beats push" meaning that people get jobs through having a friend who has a friend who knows someone who wants to hire someone etc.

I think the big problem is that you are sending your resume to HR. About 99% of resumes that go to the HR department of a big company just go into a filing cabinet that no one reads.

If you want the resume read, then

1) go through campus recruiting
2) find a local headhunter. Most high technology areas have headhunters that will are recruiting agents for jobs
3) have a friend forward your resume. Curiously enough, your friend isn't pushing the resume, but just getting the resume to someone to look at it is the first step.

 

[twofish-quant]

One other thing is putting out resumes. My last job hunt, I think I sent up about 100+ resumes. If those I never heard back from 80% of the people, and that's an excellent hit ratio.

I know this might seem like a stretch but have you considered literally calling smaller companies and asking them directly if they're hiring?

This can work really well with small companies. The hard part is to get a list of small companies to target. The other hard part is that 90% of people will say no.

P.S. - This probably won't work with larger companies, because there's an awful lot of screening to talk to anyone. But it can't hurt to try.

It won't work for larger companies, because there isn't anyone to talk to. A big company divides the job process into a dozen people none of which are able to handle a job request.

 

[DrummingAtom]

This can work really well with small companies. The hard part is to get a list of small companies to target. The other hard part is that 90% of people will say no.

Well you only need one to say yes.

 

[twofish-quant]

If I apply for an engineering position, I feel that my resume will instantly be discarded once a EE or Mech applies for the same position since they have specialized knowledge.

I don't think that is what is happening. If you are sending your resume to a large bureaucracy they odds are that you are sending them into a black hole.

Companies also need to meet a quota. "Ok we need 2xEEs and 1x Mech. An applied physics major? What do we do with you?"

No they don't. One of the reasons why internships and summer jobs is that you get to see how companies work in the inside and how they make hiring decisions.

I also feel that the physics department has been deceiving. According to their stats, app. physics majors on average start in the 45k-50k range. I have know a lot of people in the phys. department I don't think I know anyone starting in that range. It could be me, but I feel that adverts and stats like this are a recruiting tool.

They are a recruiting tool, but one thing that you have to realize is that the biases and conflicts for physics departments are also involved in engineering degrees.

So the plan is to keep applying for jobs for the next 4-5 months. If I don't find anything, then I will go to graduate school for a MS in EE or Materials Engineering. Or, depending on the demand, I'll go for a quant degree (Quantitative Finance).

Don't go for a quant degree. They aren't that useful for getting jobs, and they will leave you in a lot of debt. Whatever recruiting issues that you have with physics departments, they are a dozen times worse with MFE problems.

Except in some pretty specific situations, I very strongly advise against getting a degree in quantitative finance, if you want to go into quantitative finance

I guess the harsh lesson to learn is that app. physics is a great degree for going to grad school, but not so good for finding a job. I would appreciate any advice.

I think that you are jumping into a lot of conclusions here. The big thing that I would advise you do is to go to career services and sign up for on-campus interviews.

 

[twofish-quant]

Well you only need one to say yes.

True, but getting past all of the no's is one essential part of any job search or sales situation. One thing about apply for jobs is that it is very different than applying for schools in two ways.

1) When you apply for schools, you know where to send your application to, and if they reject you, they will at least send you a rejection letter.

2) When you apply for schools, it's a "one shot" thing. You send your applications out, and people say yes or no. For job hunting, your job is to get a job, and it's a roller coaster in which you are busy for months.

 

[Winzer]

You school should have a career center or something where you can go to talk to someone who will critique your resume, point out job opportunities, etc. Have you been to see them? Maybe part of the reason you're not getting any calls back is because your resume is not formatted well, and they can help you with that. Also, you want your resume to be targeted toward the job descriptions that you're applying for. Have you done any networking?

According to the Career Center my resume was fine.
You are right, maybe I haven't been tailoring my resume correctly for each company.
I have no clue how to network. How do you even get started?

Is your goal to work for a big corporation?

I've read that most jobs aren't advertised or filled through a formal process. There is also a saying that "Pull beats push" meaning that people get jobs through having a friend who has a friend who knows someone who wants to hire someone etc.

I would love to work for a big corporation. My prof does know a couple people in three corps.
I am in contact with them and will be applying shortly.

From the sounds of it, getting into a large corporation sounds impossible if I send my res to HR. It sounds like I should be applying to smaller companies:(

I will definitely look into more campus recruiting.

I guess my motivations have changed since I have entered college. I came in hungry for physics and math. I still am, but there is an overwhelming desire to make $$$ and move on with life

 

[twofish-quant]

I have no clue how to network. How do you even get started?

Start with the career services and alumni network people.

One other thing, if you have a career services center, they should have a mechanism for on-campus interviews.

I would love to work for a big corporation.

Ummmmm... Read Dilbert.

You need to realize that the difficulty that you are having getting the attention of people inside the company won't stop once you are hired. Trying to get a simple answer to a simple question like "does my insurance cover eyeglasses or not" can take a dozen e-mails over the course of two weeks.

Also given your situation, you should be willing to work for anyone that is willing to give you money to do anything legal and ethical.

From the sounds of it, getting into a large corporation sounds impossible if I send my res to HR.

You will find that there are extremely large numbers of people in a big corporation whose job it is to ignore you and say no. The job of HR in particular is to make you go away.

There is a lot less bureaucratic nonsense in small companies. There are other sorts of non-sense in small companies, so it balances itself out.

Getting one person to jump is pretty easy. Here is $20, jump. Getting 30,000 people on five continents to jump at exactly the same moment requires a ton of bureaucracy.

I guess my motivations have changed since I have entered college. I came in hungry for physics and math. I still am, but there is an overwhelming desire to make $$$ and move on with life

Physics and math is my life. The challenge for me is to turn that part of my life into fun and profit.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

Lockheed, Ball, Nasa, Northrop and Grumman

I used to work for Lockheed, and a few other similar companies. These contractors are always hiring, the problem is, they have a list of resumes they go through causing you a huge wait. They also heavily prefer diversity and prior military (not that it's a bad thing) so your chances of getting in there are pretty bad if you are going through HR, or using their online resume sending form. What you need to do is find the division within the company that you want to work for and talk to them directly. I got a job at a metcal lab by driving down there asking to speak with the person in charge of that division, and simply telling him why I thought I would be a good fit.

 

[Winzer]

True, but getting past all of the no's is one essential part of any job search or sales situation. One thing about apply for jobs is that it is very different than applying for schools in two ways.

1) When you apply for schools, you know where to send your application to, and if they reject you, they will at least send you a rejection letter.

2) When you apply for schools, it's a "one shot" thing. You send your applications out, and people say yes or no. For job hunting, your job is to get a job, and it's a roller coaster in which you are busy for months.

I used to work for Lockheed, and a few other similar companies. These contractors are always hiring, the problem is, they have a list of resumes they go through causing you a huge wait. They also heavily prefer diversity and prior military (not that it's a bad thing) so your chances of getting in there are pretty bad if you are going through HR, or using their online resume sending form. What you need to do is find the division within the company that you want to work for and talk to them directly. I got a job at a metcal lab by driving down there asking to speak with the person in charge of that division, and simply telling him why I thought I would be a good fit.

The thought of showing up at some these companies and talking to them directly is seeming more and more appealing. It is an aggressive approach but I am favoring it.
Actually, I would rather get turned down face-to-face instead of anxiously waiting for an online reply from HR. I would have to build up the courage to pull it off. But then again, maybe the people working there see this and admire it.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

There is nothing wrong with asking for a job. If they turn you down in person, you could even politely ask them why they made that decision, or if they know of any other companies/opportunities that you might be a good fit for.

 

[twofish-quant]

The thought of showing up at some these companies and talking to them directly is seeming more and more appealing. It is an aggressive approach but I am favoring it.

Talk to whom?

The problem with big corporations is that you'll get stopped at the front desk by the receptionist or security so that you won't get anywhere near to anyone that has anything to do with hiring.

One thing that people in academia are surprised at is how closed and secretive corporations are. With most universities, you can walk to the admissions department, whereas with most corporations, you'll get stopped at the front desk. Finding out who to send your resume to is part of the battle.

Actually, I would rather get turned down face-to-face instead of anxiously waiting for an online reply from HR.

Or more likely no reply at all. One problem is that if you show up at big corporation, there is likely no one with authority to turn you down.

One thing that you have to do if you want to look for a job is to not worry about anyone that says no or doesn't say anything. Think of it this way. Suppose you see a commercial on television or a movie trailer. If you decide not to see the movie or buy the cola, you aren't going to e-mail the movie company saying "no I will not see your movie" or "no I will not buy your cola." You are just going to ignore it.

Resumes are the same. If you are hiring, you are going to get hundreds of resumes, and you can't send back a "no thank you" letter even if you wanted to.

I would have to build up the courage to pull it off. But then again, maybe the people working there see this and admire it.

Or they'll just tune you out.

If you want to understand how a big corporation functions, read Kafka or Samuel Beckett or Tom Stoppard.

 

[twofish-quant]

Also, I assume that you aren't the only bachelors of physics that has graduated. One thing that you should do is to get in touch with anyone that also graduated, or anyone else that the physics department has graduated recently.

 

[rhody]

Also, I assume that you aren't the only bachelors of physics that has graduated. One thing that you should do is to get in touch with anyone that also graduated, or anyone else that the physics department has graduated recently.

Winzer,

I echo twofish's thoughts and your own about networking, sad to say I have been in the software industry over 30 years and it is all about who you know and what they can do to expose your talents to others. I can't vouch for how effective they are, but there is an online networking site for professional entrapeneur's; "LinkedIn", you might register, it's free and post your background/skills there. It is worth a shot. If it turns out to be useful, report back so this may help others in the same predicament as yours. Good luck, I have a daughter who just graduated from college and she is working two jobs, one now full time and it doesn't match her degree. It's tough out there, try not to be too hard on yourself, it sounds from your discussion here that you are doing the right thing, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...m=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=995&bih=566", a bit of luck in the end hopefully will pay off for you.

Rhody...

 

[creepypasta13]

Start with the career services and alumni network people.

I've actually tried this. Alot of times they would be willing to offer advice about finding jobs, what to do about getting multiple job offers , etc. But despite keeping in touch with a few of them, I only got a couple interviews this way.

"LinkedIn", you might register, it's free and post your background/skills there. It is worth a shot. If it turns out to be useful, report back so this may help others in the same predicament as yours.

I actually got an interview once this way

 

[creepypasta13]

I will have a B.S. in Applied physics with a minor in Computation. Graduating in
one week.

I have been applying to jobs left and right and haven't gotten one call back. It has
been very discouraging. I have been applying to Lockheed, Ball, Nasa, Northrop and Grumman...
..But not getting any calls back has left me wondering what value my degree has, relative to EE, Mech, Materials, etc. I am now regretting that I did not specialized in some type of engineering. If I apply for an engineering position, I feel that my resume will instantly be discarded once a EE or Mech applies for the same position since they have specialized knowledge. .
Programming: Matlab (fluent), Python (fluent, especially in numerical packages SCIPY, NUMPY, etc.), Mathematica (fluent), Linux, all Microsoft Office products, Latex, Solid Works

Have you tried applying for Analyst and Programmer positions? Does your school have an online job listing page? I had a lot more luck applying for those than applying for jobs at the big corporations like Lockheed, etc. For the corporations, I got interviews for signal processing and systems engineer positions

For engineering positions, a lot of times you will get screened out by HR due to not having an engineering degree.

 

[twofish-quant]

I've actually tried this. Alot of times they would be willing to offer advice about finding jobs, what to do about getting multiple job offers , etc. But despite keeping in touch with a few of them, I only got a couple interviews this way.

One thing that is unfamiliar to new job hunters is how inefficient the process is. You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince or princess, and if you get only a couple of interviews after a lot of networking, that's normal.