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vlad777
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If gravitation is mediated via particle doesn't it mean that
this particle would have to escape the black hole to transfer
it's gravitation?
this particle would have to escape the black hole to transfer
it's gravitation?
vlad777 said:If gravitation is mediated via particle doesn't it mean that
this particle would have to escape the black hole to transfer
it's gravitation?
bcrowell said:Nice post, cosmik_debris. I would only add that this is really a classical puzzle, not a quantum-mechanical one. But in any case, the resolution is the same. A static field doesn't transmit information.
vlad777 said:So if gravitons have mass there would be a second event horison?
twofish-quant said:The trouble with doing this with gravitons is that gravitons have mass, which means that they should produce more gravitons, which have mass which produce more gravitons. What you end up with is this giant mathematical mess that no one knows quite what to do with.
cosmik debris said:If there were a quantum theory of gravity then the graviton would be gauge particle that carries the gravitational "charge". It would probably have to be spin 2 (only one charge type) and massless (long range). Similarly in Electrodynamics we have a photon which carries the EM charge, spin 1 (two charge types), and massless (long range). Real photons are not exchanged in a static electric field, here we employ the use of virtual photons which live a fairly like existence. Real photons only appear in propagating EM waves.
The gravity field around a block hole is static like the electric field around a charged particle. This implies that like the EM case a virtual graviton would need to be employed. The real graviton would carry the gravity "charge" in a propagating gravity wave.
The black hole is static has been there for a long time and the gravitational field is stationary and is the same as the gravitational field of the original body (a star maybe), that was there before.
There is nothing to propagate. Hence no need for gravitons or anything to escape.
vlad777 said:If gravitation is mediated via particle doesn't it mean that
this particle would have to escape the black hole to transfer
it's gravitation?
ttmark said:The idea that gravity is caused by a small gravity particle takes an enormous leap of faith considering the lack of evidence supporting such a claim and the unsuccessful billions wasted trying to prove such fairy tell.
ttmark said:Interesting, i see that what we often call sub atomic particles themselves are not actually known to exist as individual pieces of matter in space. As in the case of electrons they are a statistical distribution. The same could be said that a graviton does not actually exists but what we can do instead if claim it in an theoretical abstract model so that the model will work.
Polyrhythmic said:I think you missed my point. The electron is something which is actually there, which we can measure. It is quantum mechanically described by a probability density, but it's nevertheless something that is real in the sense that we can measure it. A virtual particle however is something entirely different. It is something we cannot measure, and its "existence" as a particle is due to the interpretation of perturbative quantum field theory in terms of Feynman diagrams, which is definitely useful but completely arbitrary. It is not needed to talk about particles being exchanged in any way.
Yes, it does mean that the particle responsible for mediating the force of gravity, called the graviton, must have mass. However, current theories suggest that the mass of the graviton is very small, making it difficult to detect.
The theory of general relativity, proposed by Albert Einstein, describes gravity as the curvature of spacetime caused by the presence of matter and energy. The concept of a graviton as a particle responsible for mediating gravity is still being studied and is not fully integrated into the theory of general relativity.
Currently, there is no direct experimental evidence for the existence of gravitons. However, scientists are actively working on ways to detect and measure the effects of gravitons, such as through gravitational wave detectors.
The existence of gravitons would provide a deeper understanding of the force of gravity and its role in the universe. It could also potentially help reconcile the theories of general relativity and quantum mechanics, which currently have some conflicts.
Potentially, yes. If we are able to harness the power of gravitons, it could have implications for advanced propulsion systems, communication technology, and other fields. However, much more research and understanding is needed before this could become a reality.