How Can Variational Principles Help in Discretizing Elliptical PDEs?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the topic of discretizing elliptical PDEs and the use of a variational principle approach. The starting equation and its meaning are unclear to the speaker and they request further clarification and explanation. They also ask for help understanding the process of taking a differential of the given equation. The conversation then moves on to discussing the discretization of an energy functional using different lattice approaches. The speaker encounters difficulty with the second approach and requests assistance in understanding the difference between the two lattice methods.
  • #1
ognik
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Homework Statement


Hi - looking at 'discretizing elliptical PDEs'.
I understand the normal lattice approach, but this approach uses the variational principle. I have a couple of questions please. The text says:
$$ \: Given\: E=\int_{0}^{1} \,dx\int_{0}^{1} \,dy\left[\frac{1}{2}\left(\nabla \phi\right)^{2} - S\phi \right] $$
"It is easy to show that E is stationary under all variations $\delta \phi$ that respect the Dirichlet boundary conditions imposed. Indeed the variation is $$ \delta E=\int_{0}^{1} \,dx\int_{0}^{1} \,dy\left[\nabla \phi .\nabla \delta \phi - S \delta \phi \right] $$
..which upon integrating the the second derivative by parts becomes...
$$ \delta E=\int_{C} \,dl\: \delta \phi \vec{n} . \nabla \phi + \int_{0}^{1} \,dx \: \int_{0}^{1} \,dy\: \delta \phi \: \left[-\nabla^2 \phi - S \right] $$
... where the line integral is over the boundary of the region of interest (C) and n is the unit vector to the boundary."

Sadly, while I recognize all the words and symbols, I cannot follow it at all; I also have no idea where they get the starting equation or what it means. (The sometimes problem with computational physics is that it assumes certain background knowledge). I am hoping someone can expand enough (or provide links) so that I can follow all the above steps in detail?

The second question follows a short bit later in the text, apparently the above 'easily' leads to the following equation:
$$ E= \frac{1}{2} \sum_{i=1}^{n}\sum_{j=1}^{n}\left[\left({\phi}_{ij} - {\phi}_{i-1,j}\right)^2 + \left({\phi}_{ij} - {\phi}_{i,j-1}\right)^2 -{h}^{2}\sum_{i=1}^{n}\sum_{j=1}^{n}{S}_{ij}{\phi}_{ij}\right] $$

I probably don't need to understand how they get to the above equation - I'd just prefer to understand as much as I can, so again please help me to follow it.

What I really MUST do is now take a differential of the above w.r.t. $$ {\phi}_{ij} ,\: IE\: \frac{\partial{E}}{{\partial{\phi}_{ij}}} $$

Homework Equations


$$ E= \frac{1}{2} \sum_{i=1}^{n}\sum_{j=1}^{n}\left[\left({\phi}_{ij} - {\phi}_{i-1,j}\right)^2 + \left({\phi}_{ij} - {\phi}_{i,j-1}\right)^2 -{h}^{2}\sum_{i=1}^{n}\sum_{j=1}^{n}{S}_{ij}{\phi}_{ij}\right] $$

The Attempt at a Solution


I don't even know where to start in terms of the text above, but I should be able to do the partial derivative of the relevant eqn - with a little help help on the following 2 queries first please:
I think that I can just differentiate inside the summations, is that right?
What do I do with the i-1 and j-1 terms when differentiating w.r.t. ∅ij?
------------------
Thanks for reading.
 
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  • #2
Do you understand the concept of discretisation? Can you briefly describe what you think it means?
 
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  • #3
Orodruin said:
Do you understand the concept of discretisation? Can you briefly describe what you think it means?

Sorry Orodruin, for some reason I didn't get a notification that you'd replied. In the meantime I have made progress with the 2nd part on the actual discretisation (using a regular lattice with spacing h to approximate the derivatives, in this case using the 2-point difference formula).

But I am stuck again at a later stage in the book. We are given an energy functional using cylindrical coords:
$$ E=\int_{0}^{\infty} r.dr\left[\frac{1}{2}\left(\frac{d{\phi}}{{dr}}\right)^2 - S.\phi\right] $$
First we are asked to discretize using an ri = (i - 1/2)h lattice. I correctly get:
$$ E=\frac{1}{2h}\sum_{i=1}^{n}{r}_{i-\frac{1}{2}}\left({\phi}_{i} - {\phi}_{i-1}\right)^2 - h\sum_{i=1}^{n}{r}_{i}{S}_{i}{\phi}_{i} $$
$$ Then \: setting\: \frac{\partial{E}}{{\partial{\phi}_{i}}}=0 \:I \: get: $$
$$ 2{r}_{i}{\phi}_{i} - {r}_{i-\frac{1}{2}}{\phi}_{i-1} - {r}_{i+\frac{1}{2}}{\phi}_{i+1} = {h}^{2}{r}_{i}{S}_{i} $$
Which is all good - just the background for where I get stuck.
-------------
Now I am asked to do the same as above, but for a ri=ih lattice, and I should end with the same equation as the last above, but I don't and can't quite figure out what to do differently. My workings follow, discretising for the ri=ih lattice:
$$ E=\frac{1}{2h}\sum_{i=1}^{n}{r}_{i}\left({\phi}_{i} - {\phi}_{i-1}\right)^2 - h\sum_{i=1}^{n}{r}_{i}{S}_{i}{\phi}_{i} $$
$$ \frac{\partial E}{\partial{\phi}}=\frac{1}{2h} \frac{\partial }{\partial{\phi}}[\sum_{i=1}^{n}{r}_{i}\left({\phi}_{i} - {\phi}_{i-1}\right)^2 - h\sum_{i=1}^{n}{r}_{i}{S}_{i}{\phi}_{i}] =0$$
$$ \therefore \frac{1}{2h} \frac{\partial }{\partial{\phi}}[{r}_{1}\left({\phi}_{1} - {\phi}_{0}\right)^2...+{r}_{i}\left({\phi}_{i} - {\phi}_{i-1}\right)^2 + {r}_{i+1}\left({\phi}_{i+1} - {\phi}_{i}\right)^2 ...+{r}_{n}\left({\phi}_{n} - {\phi}_{n-1}\right)^2] = h {r}_{i}{S}_{i} $$
$$ \therefore \frac{1}{2h} [2{r}_{i}\left({\phi}_{i} - {\phi}_{i-1}\right) + 2{r}_{i+1}\left({\phi}_{i+1} - {\phi}_{i}\right)(-1) ] = h {r}_{i}{S}_{i} $$
$$ \therefore \left({r}_{i}+{r}_{i+1}\right){\phi}_{i}-{r}_{i}{\phi}_{i-1}-{r}_{i+1}{\phi}_{i+1}={h}^{2}{r}_{i}{S}_{i} $$
$$ Now \: \frac{1}{2}\left({r}_{i}+{r}_{i+1}\right)={r}_{i+\frac{1}{2}} $$
$$ \therefore 2{r}_{i+\frac{1}{2}}.{\phi}_{i}-{r}_{i}{\phi}_{i-1}-{r}_{i+1}{\phi}_{i+1}={h}^{2}{r}_{i}{S}_{i} $$
As you can see I've ended up shifted half a lattice. I think I haven't understood the difference between the (i - 1/2)h and ih lattices?
 
  • #4
Final, desperate call - assignment is due tomorrow, so will appreciate anyone who can help me quickly ...I think I have the method right, there is probably just some piece of the puzzle I don't know ...if you need more info. please just ask.
 

Related to How Can Variational Principles Help in Discretizing Elliptical PDEs?

1. What are elliptical PDEs?

Elliptical PDEs, or partial differential equations, are mathematical equations that involve multiple variables and their partial derivatives. These equations are used to describe physical phenomena, such as heat flow, fluid dynamics, and electromagnetism.

2. Why do we need to discretize elliptical PDEs?

Discretization is the process of breaking down a continuous problem into smaller, discrete parts. In the case of elliptical PDEs, discretization is necessary to solve these complex equations numerically on a computer, as they cannot be solved analytically.

3. What methods are used to discretize elliptical PDEs?

There are several methods used to discretize elliptical PDEs, including finite difference, finite element, and spectral methods. Each method has its own advantages and limitations, and the choice of method depends on the specific problem being solved.

4. What are the challenges of discretizing elliptical PDEs?

Discretizing elliptical PDEs can be challenging due to the complex nature of these equations and the need for high accuracy and efficiency in the numerical solution. Additionally, handling boundary conditions and ensuring stability and convergence of the solution can also pose challenges.

5. How do discretized elliptical PDEs impact real-world applications?

Discretized elliptical PDEs have a wide range of applications in various fields, including engineering, physics, and economics. They are used to model and predict the behavior of physical systems, which can aid in the design and optimization of real-world systems and processes.

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