God releases Satan ? Why God allow Evil to exist?

  • Thread starter Saint
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In summary: Originally posted by Saint The Revelation says, Satan will be jailed 1000 years, after that it will be released to confuse nations.Why like that?Because without somebody to tempt us to do wrong (or bad), then it would not "expose" us to our weaknesses, and we would not inquire (of God) about how to grow beyond it, "spiritually."According to bible, God wants everone to believe in Jesus and saved, but Satan wants people to disbelieve God and sin.If without Satan's influence, there should be more people to believe in Jesus and do less sin. However, God seems
  • #106
Part II:

Qualification #2: If people can be saved apart from hearing the gospel, is evangelism and missions necessary?
• This question, if answered "no", would render Christ's commission to "make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19) pointless. The answer is "yes" because there is evidently a general correspondence between the amount of light given and the number of people who repent and are saved.
• Jesus teaches this principle in Matthew 11:20-24. He says that Tyre, Sidon and Sodom would have repented if they had received the light that Capernaum, Chorazin and Bethsaida had received.
• This principle is also readily observed in history. While probably some Africans responded properly to the light of general revelation and were thus saved, clearly they were a small minority in unevangelized Africa judging by the paganism which pervaded Africa in the mid 1800's. It is no coincidence that today, after 150 years of missionary activity, almost 50% of Black Africans are evangelical Christians. Therefore, the number of people who get saved through general revelation is probably very small, and this fact preserves the strategic importance of Jesus' mission mandate.
Note: Furthermore, people who get saved by responding to general revelation have fewer spiritual resources available to them than individuals who hear and respond to the gospel. They would be like the "disciples" that Paul met in Acts 19:1-6. These men were evidently saved, but did not receive the Holy Spirit until Paul explained the gospel to them. The gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, as well as the other New Covenant ministries of the Holy Spirit, may be given only to those who have heard and responded to the message of salvation through Jesus Christ.
2. Is there justice in God's judgment?
We think, "It just doesn't seem fair for God to judge people and sentence them to hell." I don't like the idea, and neither does God (Eze. 18:23,32)—but consider these points:
• Can we trust our ability to judge what is fair for ourselves?
People tend to think that what they do is not very bad and does not deserve much punishment. Most prisoners believe that they are sentenced too severely. Because of our imperfect criminal justice system, some of them probably are—but it is highly unlikely that most of them are. Children demonstrate that this is an inborn attitude. This is why we don't let children or criminals choose their own punishments; they tend to go too soft on themselves. But God's judgment is perfect. He knows all the factors, every mitigating circumstance—and on that day he will demonstrate that he has been absolutely fair in his judgment.
• Furthermore, the alternative to this—universalism—is definitely not fair.
Is it fair for people to never be called to account for their actions? Is it fair that wicked people and not the righteous God have the last word on evil (STALIN: safe to the end, clenched fist at the end)? Is it fair for repentant people to spend eternity with an unrepentant STALIN? Is it fair for God to allow this world to go on for so long if he will send everyone to heaven? If people can't make a decision about where to spend eternity during this life, what is the point? If there is no ultimate accountability for our lives, then what is the difference between heaven and hell?
• Finally, this objection assumes that we have a proper moral standard by which to evaluate whether God's judgment is fair or unfair.
Most Americans believe that if there is a hell, only really bad people will go there. But there is a fatal flaw in this belief. How bad is bad enough? If Mother Theresa is good enough to go to heaven, and if Stalin is bad enough to go to hell, should we draw the line exactly halfway between them? What if you were one sin on Stalin's side of that line (that bad thought you had about your mother when you were ten years old)? Is this fair? No matter where you draw the line in this scenario, you always have the same dilemma. The Bible rejects this answer for one simple reason: it draws the line at God's moral perfection (Jas. 2:10; Matt. 5:48; Rom. 11:32 For God has shut up all in disobedience that He might show mercy to all.). It makes perfect sense, and God is certainly within his rights to draw it here. However, it is really bad news because it means all of us—Stalin, Mother Theresa, you, me—are under God's judgment. But the good news is that God has offered to take the rap for all of us. He says he has come in the Person of Jesus to bear God's judgment for us on the cross (2 Cor. 5:21). Now the way is open for all of us to escape God's judgment—if we put our trust in his payment. That's news you won't find anywhere but in Christianity.
 
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  • #107
Also, we are not punished because of ancestors mistake, we are punished because we personal choose to act without God. THis is a result of our character being changed because of the actions of others, but it is an inherent charactersitic of people to turn away from God.
 
  • #108
Lorentz,

Sorry to take a long time to respond. My computer won’t let me see these forums from home for some reason. To answer your questions:

1) God made us perfect, but he wanted to make creatures that had free will. Part of giving a being free will is to accept the possibility that they may choose against their creator.
2) I guess I would ask what stories you specifically don’t believe? Do you believe any of it is true (the Bible)? It will affect where I start explaining. I believe in fully examining any text, including the Bible. This includes looking at the context for a verse, passage, or book, looking at the culture of the time, seeing who the text was written to, and who it was written by. And also how the culture of the day viewed the text.

Applying these things to the Bible it can be seen that the works are self-consistent and it claims to be the description of true events – and God’s words. The people of the day thought it was true, and archaelogical evidence has supported most everything that archaelogists have studied about Biblical places.

You would be surprised, some people believe the stories and still don’t believe in God. I don’t think that makes much sense either though.

I was an athiest for the first 20 years of my life. I was downright hostile towards them. I questioned the validity of the stories a lot. A number of things happened to get me to investigate what the Bible says (if you like I will go more into detail here), but after a while, I wanted to believe in the God of the Bible. But I thought it was just emotions saying that, and that the facts didn’t back it up. So I asked my friend for a copy of “A Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. This guy is a Harvard Law graduate who went out to prove how fake Jesus was. In the process of interviewing people and examining the evidence, he became a Christian. The book is a description of the interviews and the evidence he found for the questions he had. I got half way through this book and decided that the facts really were there for the stories about Jesus.

Some of the things that were impactful to me, about the validity of the stories:

1) There are more than 1000 complete manuscripts of the new testament that we have written between 120-300 A.D. (which is within 30 years of some of the events they describe, so that people still alive could correct them). There are 5000 full manuscripts plus fragments from the same period. They are all virtually identical, and that is what is used as the basis for the modern translation of the Bible (NASB, NIV, NRSV) – straight from Greek to English. In contrast, the oldest copy in existence of The Illiad is 2000 years after when it was written, and there are just two copies of that age. In fact, of all historical documents, it is the most verifiable and accurate because of the number of independent copies that exist and check with one another, and the closeness of the documents to when the events happened.
2) The disciples all believed what they had written and believed about Jesus to be true, because they were willing to die for it when just telling the Roman officials, “I didn’t see Christ resurrected" would have gotten them freedom (normally, confessions to the Romans only ensured a quick death).
3) 100 years ago archaeologists were certain that the Biblical account of geography (of towns and such) was completely fabricated. An example is in the accuracy of Luke, which originally considered to be completely false. The renowned Sir William Ramsey (England) was at the top of his field (in the world) and set out to prove just how false Luke was by examining the sites he records in that Gospel. After years of study in the Middle East, Ramsey’s position on Luke had changed. He eventually classified “the beloved physician” (Col. 4:14) as one of “the very greatest of historians” who ever lived (Luke the Physician, p. 222). He found that in making reference to 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands he (Luke) made no mistakes!"

There are more, but these are just a few of the things I found when I began to really research the authenticity of these stories.
 
  • #109
ProtractedSilence said:
Also, we are not punished because of ancestors mistake, we are punished because we personal choose to act without God. THis is a result of our character being changed because of the actions of others, but it is an inherent charactersitic of people to turn away from God.
how in god's name did i act without god? i was born innocent but i am punished for the acts of others?

nah, you were born innocent and accepted the propaganda that you must accept god's will when something went wrong. you had to deserve it, he is most just.

honest injun, i went through 12 years of catholic education (including altarboy) and understand the process. it has taken over 40 years to undo their ideas. unfortunately, there were 35 years of booze, 2 marriages and a lot of thinking to understand that i did it all to myself. i include the choice of when, where and how i was born. to accept a concept you must apply it to all logical events.

once i accepted full responsiblity for my reality/experience, i understood so much more. my god, (whoever, whatever s/he/it is), is there to help, not judge. we can do no wrong.

peace & love,
 
  • #110
I will ask you again (don't remember if it was in this thread or others); If we can do no wrong, how do you explain the Holocaust, Cambodia, Russia under Stalin, mass murderes like Ted Bundy, and just average theivery and crime?

Do you think that these people acting rightly?
 
  • #111
ProtractedSilence said:
I will ask you again (don't remember if it was in this thread or others); If we can do no wrong, how do you explain the Holocaust, Cambodia, Russia under Stalin, mass murderes like Ted Bundy, and just average theivery and crime?

Do you think that these people acting rightly?

i am not sure you're going to like this, so hang on!

there are no victims. now, slow down! i did not say they asked to be harmed or injured. this is complicated so try to feel the value of this concept because it goes against most of what we believe happens day to day.

1. we, each of us, create or co-create our reality. (we won't go into how. QM?)

2. there is no right or wrong, simply 'experience' to expand our own and god's consciousness.

3. our 'present' is the focus of past and future proablity threads. we are living a probabilty thread based on our individual desired goal.

4. let's deal with hitler - probably the biggest of the baddest--

5. he came to power thru the spiritual need of, or lack of leadership. while we are all creating our individual reality, we also add our energy to the mass reality of our neighborhood, community, state, country, world.

6. it is important to realize that through the mass reality we are helping our fellow man accomplish his goals and vice-versa.

7. back to adolph, he was well intentioned and did a lot of good for germany, before he got carried away.

8. within the group dynamics we have a race that believes that it is better to 'turn the other cheek', we have another group that believes that they are the master race. (lol, chosen people meets chosen race). I AM NOT MAKING LITE OF THIS HISTORY.

9. the two groups AGREED to play out the holocaust for the growth of civilization. they did not ask to be victim and purpetrator, circumstances of their individual goals put them in line to agree to these roles for the progress of mankind.

10. hopefully we will always remeber the holocaust and be able to avert another.

11. it is important to understand that what we see as victims, did not ask to be harmed or injured. they agreeded to the experience for their individual reason, some for the betterment of mankind, some to satisfy a desire to experience an unusual death.

i am not saying that this is EXACTLY how it happens, i am not that in tune with the universe. but, after years and years of thought, this concept fills all the holes i find/found in traditional thinking.

relax, tell the universe where you want to go and the universe will take you there.

peace and love,
 
  • #112
Well, I disagree. But thank you for clearly explaining what you mean, it helps a lot.

If I create my own reality, why do I need other people at all?
Why don't things always go how I desire?

And if the two parts of society in Germany agreed for the good of society to live out the Holocaust, why would we need to avert another? Society has grown because of it right?

I don't think that people agreed to die an unusual death. You would have to show me proof for me to buy that.

Let's try another situation: I go to sleep one night after a party and while I am sleeping, someone comes by and sets my house on fire and me and four others die asleep in the flames. Now did I get the choice to participate in this? This happened (of course not with me) at my college last spring.

Or another: A girl I graduated high school with had an older brother going to school at a police academy. She asked to see his issue pistol. She unloaded the round out of the chamber and then unloaded the clip out of the gun, and then told her brother that the gun was unloaded. She then asked him to show her the fast draw. He drew and pulled the trigger, and the round in the chamber (proper unloading sequence is clip and then chamber) shot her directly in the chest at close range. She died. Did she choose to die? Did her brother choose to kill? I think they both had unexpected things happen to them.
 
  • #113
olde drunk said:
what if there was no good or bad? that the world just 'is'.

did we construct a devil as a better means of understanding a god?

what if god is the universe? would we need a devil?

so, if we change our understanding of god will we remove the basis for having a devil?

personally, i think it is time for us to grow up and go beyond the myths of the ancients. all the old texts are guides for living. they can not be faultless. after all they were transcribed and translated by humans.

it is time to redefine our spiritual foundation without a 'god and/or devil'.

ah hell, there would be an economic slow down as all churches were removed from the money flow BUT we would bounce back.

An authentic sign of the end of the world.
 
  • #114
666

olde drunk said:
i am not sure you're going to like this, so hang on!

there are no victims. now, slow down! i did not say they asked to be harmed or injured. this is complicated so try to feel the value of this concept because it goes against most of what we believe happens day to day.

1. we, each of us, create or co-create our reality. (we won't go into how. QM?)

2. there is no right or wrong, simply 'experience' to expand our own and god's consciousness.

3. our 'present' is the focus of past and future proablity threads. we are living a probabilty thread based on our individual desired goal.

4. let's deal with hitler - probably the biggest of the baddest--

5. he came to power thru the spiritual need of, or lack of leadership. while we are all creating our individual reality, we also add our energy to the mass reality of our neighborhood, community, state, country, world.

6. it is important to realize that through the mass reality we are helping our fellow man accomplish his goals and vice-versa.

7. back to adolph, he was well intentioned and did a lot of good for germany, before he got carried away.

8. within the group dynamics we have a race that believes that it is better to 'turn the other cheek', we have another group that believes that they are the master race. (lol, chosen people meets chosen race). I AM NOT MAKING LITE OF THIS HISTORY.

9. the two groups AGREED to play out the holocaust for the growth of civilization. they did not ask to be victim and purpetrator, circumstances of their individual goals put them in line to agree to these roles for the progress of mankind.

10. hopefully we will always remeber the holocaust and be able to avert another.

11. it is important to understand that what we see as victims, did not ask to be harmed or injured. they agreeded to the experience for their individual reason, some for the betterment of mankind, some to satisfy a desire to experience an unusual death.

i am not saying that this is EXACTLY how it happens, i am not that in tune with the universe. but, after years and years of thought, this concept fills all the holes i find/found in traditional thinking.

relax, tell the universe where you want to go and the universe will take you there.

peace and love,

666 Now I know why you do not like Latin.
 
  • #115
Rader said:
666 Now I know why you do not like Latin.
THERE AIN'T NO DEVIL, EITHER!

see, i didn't waste dem 3 years of latin.

love & peace,
 
  • #116
ProtractedSilence said:
Well, I disagree. But thank you for clearly explaining what you mean, it helps a lot.

If I create my own reality, why do I need other people at all?
Why don't things always go how I desire?

And if the two parts of society in Germany agreed for the good of society to live out the Holocaust, why would we need to avert another? Society has grown because of it right?

I don't think that people agreed to die an unusual death. You would have to show me proof for me to buy that.

Let's try another situation: I go to sleep one night after a party and while I am sleeping, someone comes by and sets my house on fire and me and four others die asleep in the flames. Now did I get the choice to participate in this? This happened (of course not with me) at my college last spring.

Or another: A girl I graduated high school with had an older brother going to school at a police academy. She asked to see his issue pistol. She unloaded the round out of the chamber and then unloaded the clip out of the gun, and then told her brother that the gun was unloaded. She then asked him to show her the fast draw. He drew and pulled the trigger, and the round in the chamber (proper unloading sequence is clip and then chamber) shot her directly in the chest at close range. She died. Did she choose to die? Did her brother choose to kill? I think they both had unexpected things happen to them.
i have no problem with your disagreement. please give me your reason these things happen.

to be at the mercy of a god seems very, very unjust for a supreme being. why should i suffer because s/he/it was PMSing on a given day.

why do race drivers die in firey crashes? yeah, they enjoyed going fast and cheating death. they also choose their way of dying. or mountain climbers, or solidiers, does god insist that they take unusual risks??

i'm willing to change this outline, if i am given an intelligent, logical reason. so far, reviewing my life and my events, this makes the most sense. again, adding reincarnation to the mix, helps us see how we grow and expand our awareness(consciousness) through our physical existence.

love & peace,
 
  • #117
Satan is a force, not a person in the sense you would think, destroying Satan would destroy our free will. God wants us to choose to love him, not to be forced to. If there was no good/evil, we'd have no choice but to be good right? Destroying evil would also destroy good, because on a white sheet of paper you cannot see a white dot, it just blends in.
 
  • #118
If God is all-good, then he cannot choose evil. Does this mean God has no free will? If that is the case, why would he feel it is important for us to have it?
 
  • #119
theamazingTWOeyedman said:
God wants us to choose to love him, not to be forced to.

And God is willing to put us through hell to get what He wants?
Think about your post "What is 'good'?"

theamazingTWOeyedman said:
How would you define good? Even some of the good things you do impact others in a bad way. How about this... If you do something "good" to someone just for personal gain, is it still a good deed? Is good perhaps just something that if you were in the recievers shoes would appriciate?

How would you define good?

Happy thoughts
Rachel
 
  • #120
We are in the process of becomming. Within the process all experience brings us closer to our goal. So, all experience is worthwhile; neither good nor bad.

Experience just IS.

loveNpeace
olde drunk
 
  • #121
About a week ago I saw an item on the news. There was a girder up on an overpass in the Denver area. For some unknown reason it fell. The SUV that was traveling underneath was chopped up by the girder, killing the two adults and the young child inside.

Any number of events like this should give pause for thought to those who believe in a caring deity.

And if one is tempted to answer, "The occupants are humans and humans are worthless vermin and deserve what they get," then there are all sorts of examples from the animal kingdom. Take beached whales, for instance. Why do they deserve to die in that way?
 
  • #122
Another thought.

If God is the one who decides how and when a person dies, why does He sometimes tie His own hands by bringing conjoined twins into the world? If they cannot be separated surgically, they spend their life joined, and then when one dies, the other also dies within minutes, or maybe it is a few hours at most.
 
  • #123
Freewill

Janitor said:
If God is the one who decides how and when a person dies, why does He sometimes tie His own hands by bringing conjoined twins into the world? If they cannot be separated surgically, they spend their life joined, and then when one dies, the other also dies within minutes, or maybe it is a few hours at most.
when i asked these same questions, the only logical answer i could reach was that it is a function of freewill. god, whoever - whatever s/he/it is, gains from the experience that we choose.

why do we choose difficult experiences? within infinity - eternity our life is but an eye blink. some of us want to be more adventurous and/or want to experience a particular handicap to better appreciate our spiritual wholeness.

are the twins 2 separate personailities (souls) or are they one soul looking to branch out into (create) a second soul? are they 2 personalities that have loved each other so much that they wanted to share a body and reality experience rogether?

again, freewill and the desire to expand awareness is MY answer. I just can not believe that any god would impose pain and suffering on one person and joy and happiness on another, it ain't just or merciful or properly omnipotent.

loveNpeace,
olde drunk
 
  • #124
Not all people reach their goals. Some experience is counterproductive. I don't know how you could possibly claim otherwise. If I experience having my head removed from my body later today, I don't think that will help me reach anything other than death, which I am certainly not aiming for.
 
  • #125
loseyourname said:
Not all people reach their goals. Some experience is counterproductive. I don't know how you could possibly claim otherwise. If I experience having my head removed from my body later today, I don't think that will help me reach anything other than death, which I am certainly not aiming for.
UNLESS you wanted to experience a cruel manner of death. within my view of our experience here, all our individual experience adds to the awareness of the universe (god).

we also have a journey of exploration and use freewill to expand our indiviual awareness and expand the universal consciousness.

otherwise, why does this type of violence exist? because we are 'bad'? why would a merciful god allow such an event to occur? if i choose or agree to have my head removed, it make more sense, IMHO.

loveNpeace,
olde drunk
 
  • #126
As long as that's nothing more than a humble opinion, given that your hypothesis is completely intestable and unfalsifiable. I'm sure you realize that propositions cannot be considered true simply because they appeal to your conscience.
 
  • #127
By the way, I wonder if you have ever read Illusions by Richard Bach. It's a fiction novel, but it proposes exactly the same order to reality that you have. You might enjoy it.
 
  • #128
loseyourname said:
By the way, I wonder if you have ever read Illusions by Richard Bach. It's a fiction novel, but it proposes exactly the same order to reality that you have. You might enjoy it.
No! but i did read SEAGULL, way back in ancient history. Kinda helped break with traditional thot about god, religion,self and reality.

Bach was a friend of Jane Roberts and I've read several of her books, including a couple of the seth books. Adventures of Oversoul 7, was cute and offered another, different view of our entire self.

loveNpeace,
olde drunk
 
  • #129
Answers

Evil exists merely because God exists. It's like symmetry or a mirror. However, evil had no physical form until (as explained in the Bible) Satan chose it (which is why us Christians call him a "fallen-angel"). God could at any moment destroy this little boy but what would that prove? For example I could write a paper and hand it over to my friend to critique and if he did not like it, instead of arguing my point, I could easily just shoot him...but what would that prove? In the same way what would that prove about the powerful effects of the beauty of God's nature? As far as us human beings down here on Earth, evil still reigns inside us because of the infamous Adam and Eve story, but since the dawn of time it has been noted that God has always given us this free will to chose his side and hopes that we do. As for God killing the devil in a thousand years, where did you get that figure? No dates in the Bible can be found and ridiculous assumptions would have to be made in order to find lengths of time within. For all we know the devil will be here within 15 days. So you're a big boy now, can't you understand big-boy books? Read The Bible.
Other sources:
doesgodexist.com
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
 
  • #130
From the Freedom from Religion Foundation (www.ffrf.org), in answer to the question, who is responsible for evil:

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)

The word "create" above is bara, the same word used in Genesis 1:1. The word "evil" is ra, such as in Genesis 2:9, "the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Some versions, such as the NIV, have unjustifiably softened the implications of this verse by translating ra as "disaster" or "calamity," although ra is used repeatedly throughout scripture to refer to moral evil. (See Isaiah 7:14-15: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil [ra], and choose the good.") But even if the "disaster" interpretation were allowable, the verse still depicts God as a troublemaker.
 
  • #131
Free will?

sarahinfrance said:
As far as us human beings down here on Earth, evil still reigns inside us because of the infamous Adam and Eve story, but since the dawn of time it has been noted that God has always given us this free will to chose his side and hopes that we do.

This is undoubtedly off-topic, but how can you possibly be a Christian and believe in free will? The Bible describes God as omniscient, meaning he knows everything. There is also a verse in the Bible that says that God knows you before you're even in the womb. Obviously, these mean that he knows your future before you're even created. However, if God created you then he controls every action and every decision you will ever make at creation. If he wants you to be a Christian, he'd make you more open to religious doctrine. If he wanted me to be an athiest, he would make me like he would have if he was real.

I know this is scatter brained, so you'll have to forgive me, but isn't it plausible that if God knew everything you will face before he actually created you, the way he creates you will make you choose different options? Ultimately, following this way of thinking, your life is already chosen for you.
 
  • #132
Hey People-
I hope you guys don't mind another two cents thrown in... I guess for me it comes down to personal faith... If you want to believe in evil and a devil, and that faith works for you, then for you it is real. I believe what Olde Drunk is trying to get across is best said in "Conversations with God" (the entire series), although Richard Bach's books are fairly close in some aspects.
Of course we are going to jump to the worst cases imaginable to test our ideas about God (anyone's ideas about God) but I have to remind myself that while I am disproving YOUR theory, my theory (if I feel it is correct) was operating at the same time... what I mean to say is that if my idea (faith) allows a world that is self created and something horrible happens, and my friend comes along and says "see, you didn't ask for that, so your faith must be wrong and so my faith in Jesus (Allah, Buddha, Hare Krishna, pick one) must be right" then right there that person ought to recognize that his/her faith/idea of God allowed the horrible thing to happen as well... and everyone else on the planet is included in that. And as for not believing "THE RIGHT or ONLY WAY" and being punished for that, well, I just can't put a whole lotta stock in a God, an omnipotent, perfect "I Am everything" God, has the self-insecurity enough to punish his creations for aspects of their behavior or thoughts that he wanted them to have in the first place. It just doesn't add up. God would be powerful enough that all would be allowed that was allowable, and stuff that was taboo would be not allowed, wouldn't one think? And since it seem that anything goes, well then I guess that God wants us to experience life without restriction. Chose, (free will) but understand there are consequences to choices (actions and reactions) and by the way, life happens and you get to chose how to react to it as well. People often define themselves in the face of adversity and calamity, do they not? Does the person whose friends die in a fire chose to go on to be a firefighter and save lives (and would those friend's deaths be in vain in that case??) Wouldn't the availability of those kinds of opportunities and choices only be possible if God allowed then to be there?
I can run at the mouth (keyboard) forever, but I am looking forward to you guys' input.
Carl1free
 
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  • #133
sarahinfrance said:
Read The Bible.
Other sources:
doesgodexist.com
Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
WHICH ONE??

i read several and they are nice stories. their fiction is worse than Bach and other writers because so much has been lost in translation.

whatsamatter for you?? you no like-a seagull for a saviour? hell, johnathan is not better or worse than you or me.

we are our own saviour, if we believe we need one.

i don't!

love&peace,
olde drunk
 
  • #134
oh, by the way, what are we to be saved from?

this is what really put me on the road to self discovery. way back in the 40's catholic schools this was taught to the tune of a ruler across your knuckles. i felt it was misleading then and i know it (for myself) now.

letting go of all imposed ideas of religion will lead one to realize that it is all a personal choice and subjective to the extreme.

please do not save me. I ALREADY DID!

love&peace,
olde drunk
 
  • #135
olde drunk said:
please do not save me. I ALREADY DID!

It looks like you need to be saved brother. Would you like to:
a) donate money
b) spend 40 days with no food
c) learn all the psalms
d) search for more help on the web
:-p
 

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