Fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble

In summary, the conversation discusses the possibility of using gimbled propulsion (thrust vectoring) on fixed wing aircraft to replace traditional control surfaces. While this is feasible for some aircraft, it may not be practical for commercial aircraft due to the need for lift from the wings. The use of gimbled propulsion on aircraft is more common for achieving extreme maneuverability, and it may become more prevalent in the future as electric aircraft become more established. However, this would require the propulsion system to be located at the rear of the aircraft, similar to rockets.
  • #1
mheslep
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It has been some time since I sat through basic aircraft dynamics, so I hope to check some conclusions about the topic. Clearly rockets and missiles have maintained stable flight via gimble of the engines. My understanding has been that designing, say, jet aircraft in this way (i.e. forgoing control of flight surfaces) has not been feasible because doing so at cruise speed sharply change the angle-of-attack and stall the compressor air flow (among other difficulties).

Now however the possibility of non-air breathing, in the atmosphere propulsion looms. In such a future, can the ubiquitous big tail and elevators and their drag be discarded, replaced by gimbled propulsion? It seems to me that practically the answer is still no, because a fixed wing aircraft with no tail would have the center of pressure (CP) well forward of the center-mass, unlike a wingless rocket, and then in the event of propulsion failure, even for a moment, such an aircraft would become violently unstable.
 
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  • #2
Gimbled propulsion (thrust vectoring) on an aircraft is going to be more complicated than a fixed engine.

Harriers and F-22 Raptor use thrust vectoring, but I think it depends on the mission of the aircraft. The V-22 Osprey is a different application with fixed engines/props on rotating wings. Certainly, unbalanced thrust, or failure of one engine would be a significant concern and consideration.

Here is a discussion on the topic - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_vectoring

For commercial aircraft, I suspect it depends on how much lift will come from the airflow across the wings versus vectoring the thrust from the engine.
 
  • #3
Thanks for the comment Astronuc.

Yes, as the Wiki page indicates, aside from the Osprey, fixed wind aircraft that use some form of thrust vectoring do so by deflecting the thrust, not via gimbled engines. The Osprey does rotate its engines, but only in one plane. Unlike rockets, all these aircraft rely on move-able aerodynamic surfaces for basic control, though apparently some obtain extreme maneuverability (i.e. high angles of attack) by adding thrust vectoring.

Like rockets, any aircraft that relied on gimbled propusion for aero-control I suspect must have its propulsion in one location, to the aft.
eas-viii-VoltAir_tech.jpg
 
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  • #4
Phys.org also has a re-print mention of the idea of gimballed propulsion for aircraft, in a what-if piece for 2050 aircraft.

Once electric aircraft are established, the next step will be to integrate a gimballed propulsion system, one that can provide thrust in any direction. This will remove the need for the elevators, rudders, and tailplane control surfaces that current designs require, but which add significant mass and drag.
 

Related to Fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble

What is fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble?

Fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble is a method of controlling an aircraft's pitch and roll movements by tilting the engines. This allows for more precise and efficient control compared to traditional methods.

How does fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble work?

The engines of the aircraft are mounted on gimbals, which are devices that allow for rotation and movement in different directions. By tilting the engines, the direction of the thrust can be changed, which in turn affects the pitch and roll of the aircraft.

What are the advantages of fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble?

There are several advantages to using this method of aircraft control. It allows for more precise and responsive movements, reduces drag, and can improve fuel efficiency. It also reduces the need for other control surfaces, making the aircraft lighter and more aerodynamic.

What are some examples of aircraft that use fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble?

Fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble is commonly used in military aircraft such as the F-35 Lightning II and the B-2 Spirit. It is also used in commercial aircraft such as the Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

Are there any limitations to fixed wing aircraft control via engine gimble?

While this method of aircraft control has many advantages, it does have some limitations. It may not be suitable for all types of aircraft, and it requires complex and precise engineering. It also requires additional fuel and maintenance costs compared to traditional control methods.

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