COVID-19 Vaccine Progress: Are We Ready for Rollout in Australia?

[berkeman]

Novavax COVID shot effective but carries heart risk, FDA says

I didn't see the incidence rate of myocarditis and periocarditis in these studies (but I could have missed it). What were the rates? If it's 1/million vaccinations like some of the other risks with the mRNA vaccines, that's one thing. if it's 1/100,000 or greater, that's different, IMO.

 

[Astronuc]

I didn't see the incidence rate of myocarditis and periocarditis in these studies (but I could have missed it). What were the rates? If it's 1/million vaccinations like some of the other risks with the mRNA vaccines, that's one thing. if it's 1/100,000 or greater, that's different, IMO.

In their June 3 press release, Novavax states, "The data from our placebo-controlled studies show that overall, in our clinical development program, the rate of myocarditis was balanced between the vaccine and placebo arms (0.007% and 0.005%)." or 7/100k and 5/100k, respectively, which seems about statistically the same.

 

[berkeman]

Interesting. Then why the FDA headline?

 

[Astronuc]

Interesting. Then why the FDA headline?

One would have to find the person responsible for authorizing the statement and have that person explain the motivation. Maybe, it's to avoid criticism from the public in the event that a person receives the vaccine and develops myocarditis.

If I recall correctly, there is a risk of myocarditis with each of the vaccines. However, I wonder if that is a consequence of injecting the vaccine solution directly into a blood vessel (vein) as opposed to the muscle. Perhaps that occurs in 1 in 100k to 1 in 10k cases?

 

[Godot_]

One would have to find the person responsible for authorizing the statement and have that person explain the motivation. Maybe, it's to avoid criticism from the public in the event that a person receives the vaccine and develops myocarditis.[...]

There probably is a statistical threshold. Once incoming possible adversary reaction reports exceed that threshold, a warning is issued. At least here in Europe that's the principle with "normal" medications...

If I recall correctly, there is a risk of myocarditis with each of the vaccines. However, I wonder if that is a consequence of injecting the vaccine solution directly into a blood vessel (vein) as opposed to the muscle. Perhaps that occurs in 1 in 100k to 1 in 10k cases?

This called "accidential intravasal injection", and is a plausible cause for myocarditis with the mRNA-vaccines, because...
a) the usual safety measure - aspiring before infection, and aborting if blood is drawn - must not be done with microsomal preparations. "Explicit instructions" was what I've been told when chatting up the lady giving me the third shot.
b) the next "damageable" organ the vaccine then hits is the heart. Most of it would be absorbed in the lung, but after that, the heart is the place to go. Other organs have more reserves and / or better protection.
c) the higher frequency of myocarditis in young males also hints at that. Young men have - on average - the best vascularization in their deltoids, bodybuilding or not.

But... ...Novavax is a protein vaccine. Doh.

 

[atyy]

There probably is a statistical threshold. Once incoming possible adversary reaction reports exceed that threshold, a warning is issued. At least here in Europe that's the principle with "normal" medications...This called "accidential intravasal injection", and is a plausible cause for myocarditis with the mRNA-vaccines, because...
a) the usual safety measure - aspiring before infection, and aborting if blood is drawn - must not be done with microsomal preparations. "Explicit instructions" was what I've been told when chatting up the lady giving me the third shot.
b) the next "damageable" organ the vaccine then hits is the heart. Most of it would be absorbed in the lung, but after that, the heart is the place to go. Other organs have more reserves and / or better protection.
c) the higher frequency of myocarditis in young males also hints at that. Young men have - on average - the best vascularization in their deltoids, bodybuilding or not.

But... ...Novavax is a protein vaccine. Doh.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/faq.html
"You should not aspirate before giving any vaccine, including COVID-19 vaccines. Aspiration can increase pain because of the combined effects of a longer needle-dwelling time in the tissues and shearing action (wiggling) of the needle. A discussion of vaccine administration best practices can be found in the Vaccine Administration chapter of Epidemiology and Prevention of Vaccine-Preventable Diseases (Pink Book)."

https://covid.immune.org.nz/faq/there-need-aspirate-giving-covid-vaccine
"We are aware that occasionally consumers are requesting that the vaccinators aspirate the needle [pull back slightly to check for any minor blood vessels] prior to administration of the COVID vaccine. While this is currently not best practice and may be more uncomfortable for the patient, there is no danger associated with accommodating the consumer's requests."

 

[kyphysics]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/moderna-says-updated-covid-shot-110657596.html

Moderna's experimental COVID-19 vaccine that combines its original shot with protection against the omicron variant appears to work, the company announced Wednesday.

COVID-19 vaccine makers are studying updated boosters that might be offered in the fall to better protect people against future Coronavirus surges.

Moderna's preliminary study results show people given the combination shot experienced an eight-fold increase in virus-fighting antibodies capable of targeting the omicron mutant, the company announced.

 

[Laroxe]

For people who are members of Medscape (you can join for free) this is an interesting review of Novavax and another new vaccine, Covaxin.
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/975110

I think we are now at the stage that the main issues in vaccine appraisal will be the incidence of adverse events and the "breadth" of the antibody response. It does seem that in the future, mixing vaccines is the way to go rather than continually developing variant specific vaccines. Many, if not most, of the vaccines in development, that have been shown to be effective have been discontinued. For these vaccines to be economically viable they need to offer advantages beyond their effectiveness, the first vaccines set a very high bar.

It is still difficult to estimate the risks involved in vaccination, any sort of activation of the immune system may increase some risks and it seems to be the case that the immune response to some specific pathogens can be associated with some specific problems. However, the fact that interactions with our environment mean we are constantly exposed to a range of antigens means that there is usually a constant background rate of many of the suggested adverse events.

Only vaccines that can be associated with low rates of possible adverse events are widely used, in many cases it can be difficult to identify any increased rate as the frequency is so low it can be difficult to identify different rates of occurrence. This was an issue with the Astra Zenica / viral vector vaccines and is considered in the review of Novavax. Many of the adverse events identified are frequently seen in actual infections and at a much higher rate.

A great deal of attention is paid to the possibility of adverse events to vaccines, and the global monitoring systems mean that information about individual cases is widely available and influences uptake. This is a prime example of how human stories influence behaviour when good quality information doesn't. If we looked at measles vaccination about which we have detailed information over many years, its clear it is very safe, there are very few cases of serious side effects that can be attributed to the vaccine, and it provides lifelong protection. At the same time vaccine refusal, often in areas of high risk is very common, despite vaccination campaigns leading to an 80% reduction in deaths between 2000 and 2017, the WHO still reported around 110,000 deaths over this same period.

With Covid we saw widespread campaigns to ensure equal distribution of vaccine stocks to African countries and the development of vaccine production facilities. Unfortunately, and for a variety of reasons, despite the vaccines being made widely available, vaccine uptake remains very low, a new production facility in South Africa was in fact closed for lack of orders. I suspect that the idea that new vaccines that use different technologies will reassure people who were suspicious of mRNA vaccines and increase uptake, may be a triumph of hope over experience.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration will not require companies to submit clinical trial data on COVID-19 vaccines modified to protect against the BA.4 and BA.5 versions of Omicron in order to authorize those shots, a top FDA official said on Thursday.

Source:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...thorize-redesigned-covid-boosters-2022-06-30/

 

[morrobay]

Source:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...thorize-redesigned-covid-boosters-2022-06-30/

Not familiar with protocols but is it common and appropriate to omit clinical data. Clinical data that may show adverse effects ?

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

Not familiar with protocols but is it common and appropriate to omit clinical data. Clinical data that may show adverse effects ?

I am not an expert for this. But I read something similar for (inactivated) influenza vaccines:

In the United States, licensed influenza vaccine manufacturers must submit a supplement to their license for review and obtain FDA approval before the updated version of the influenza vaccine containing new virus antigens can be distributed. Such supplements to inactivated and recombinant protein seasonal influenza vaccines do not require additional clinical data specific for the new strain.

Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947948/

 

[morrobay]

I am not an expert for this. But I read something similar for (inactivated) influenza vaccines:

Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4947948/

However does this apply to mRNA boosters too ? Because from quick search some of the new BA. 4,5 boosters are mRNA based.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

However does this apply to mRNA boosters too ? Because from quick search some of the new BA. 4,5 boosters are mRNA based.

As I understand, for fall 2022 that is not yet decided. If they decide for an mRNA booster containing Omicron BA.1 genes, then clinical data will be available. If they jump directly to Omicron BA.4/BA.5 genes for better efficiency of the vaccine against BA.4/BA.5, then they will rely for authorization on the clinical data created for BA.1.

The future strategy seems to be, that they rely for authorization of variant "n" on the data for variant "n-1".

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Recommends Inclusion of Omicron BA.4/5 Component for COVID-19 Vaccine Booster Doses
...
Vaccine manufacturers have already reported data from clinical trials with modified vaccines containing an omicron BA.1 component and we have advised them that they should submit these data to the FDA for our evaluation prior to any potential authorization of a modified vaccine containing an omicron BA.4/5 component. Manufacturers will also be asked to begin clinical trials with modified vaccines containing an omicron BA.4/5 component, as these data will be of use as the pandemic further evolves.

Source:
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...icron-ba45-component-covid-19-vaccine-booster

 

[bhobba]

However does this apply to mRNA boosters too ? Because from quick search some of the new BA. 4,5 boosters are mRNA based.

It's a risk vs reward thing. We have enough experience with inactivated virus vaccines which is the main technology used to make the Flu vaccine - the virus is often grown in eggs. But recently other technologies have started to be used. Anyway because of that experience they don't go through the full gamut of phases 1, 2, 3, 4 etc since for certain groups the flu can be very dangerous indeed. We are now seeing a bad flu season because the lockdowns etc have reduced natural immunity. Even so every now and then you hear of an otherwise healthy young person dying of the flu. In 2017 I seem to recall where I live (Queensland) about 300 died so it is not something to take lightly.

Anyway, we are now getting a lot of experience with MRNA vaccines and the new Omicron variants 4 and 5 are causing havoc in a number of places (where I am in Brisbane for example) that it may be judged the reward is worth the risk. We are seeing 12 deaths a day although it must be said the majority have not had their 3rd booster. The 4th booster is now recommended for everyone. Reports in the media say Omicron 4 and 5 vaccines likely will be in use sometime toward the end of the year. But the companies have announced they will be ready for mass distribution in August. Evidently, they can be produced and manufactured that fast. IMHO this is the most potent weapon we have. We should fast-track it as much as possible. Unfortunately, public servants are legendary for their process rather than results-oriented practices so I am betting on more likely at year's end - sadly.

In the interim please get the 4th dose, wear a mask while inside, wash hands etc. It's not to be taken lightly. Even the Flu should not be taken lightly and unfortunately, the 4 and 5 variants, which will become the dominant strains, are worse than the flu. Although it is not known if widespread use of the current vaccine's 4th dose will bring it back to flu levels - we can only hope.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Tom.G]

Researchers at Caltech (California Institute of Technology) have come up with a vaccine against multiple Corona Viruses, even those that are not specifically included in the vaccine.

So far it works in mice and monkeys, and they have been funded with USD $30 million ($3×10⁷) for Phase 1 human trial (safety evaluation). Trial expected to start late 2022 - early 2023 and take about a year.

Scientific report:
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126....1578319343.1656969987-1539684278.1656679986&

Popular article:
https://www.latimes.com/science/sto...-multiple-coronaviruses-to-begin-human-trials

Successful or not, it looks like major progress to me!

Cheers,
Tom

 

[bhobba]

Trial expected to start late 2022 - early 2023 and take about a year.

I don't get this. It does not have to take that long. You do phase 1, then halfway through start phase 2, and halfway through that start phase 3. In parallel with phase 3, you start mass production so it is ready to go when phase 3 is completed. The only people put at risk are the volunteers who participated in phase 2 before phase 1 finished, and those that participated in phase 3 before phase 2 finished. Once ready to be used it has been through all the phases and is as safe as doing it sequentially. Why can't we compress it? I don't get it? Perhaps those more knowledgeable can shed some light on it. At the moment I am confounded. Vaccines are our most potent weapon - we must get them out there ASAP. It will save countless lives.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Tom.G]

I don't get this. It does not have to take that long. You do phase 1, then halfway through start phase 2, and halfway through that start phase 3. In parallel with phase 3, you start mass production so it is ready to go when phase 3 is completed. The only people put at risk are the volunteers...

And which overlapping phase are YOU volunteering for?

Other than that question, there is something known as The Hippocratic Oath that doctors are (supposedly) bound by.

Compressed version: "First, Do No Harm."

For longer versions, see:
https://www.google.com/search?&q=hippocratic+oath+text

 

[bhobba]

And which overlapping phase are YOU volunteering for?

Well, it was how the first-generation vaccines were developed so fast. I would volunteer for any, although being immunocompromised it is doubtful they would accept me except for phase 3. In phase 3 they would want vulnerable people because they are the group that the vaccine would help the most. But you bring up a valid point - it will fail without sufficient volunteers. That applies to the usual method as well. It's just that in practice it has not proved to be a problem. Challenge trials speed it up even more, and they had no shortage of volunteers:
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/11/17/21540773/covid-19-vaccine-human-challenge-trial-ethics.

I am unsure though if the situation is so dire challenge trials are the way to go, but it is good to know it is there if required. And yes, there are difficult ethical issues involved which is why I gave your post a like.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Laroxe]

I think people have to remember that to carry out large scale clinical trials usually involves comparing the outcomes between vaccinated and unvaccinated groups, the starting point would be identifying people without antibodies. Currently, with the high level of vaccination and infection this is almost impossible. It's not unusual for a vaccine that uses well established technologies not to undergo the full evaluation process, this doesn't mean that evidence of effectiveness or adverse events is ignored, in fact these are the things that the process focusses on.
A major issue at the moment is that virtually all the studies use antibody measures as a proxy measure of effectiveness, the various sub variants of SARS-CoV-2, which show considerable differences in the effectiveness of antibody protection, this isn't really very helpful. Unfortunately, few people have tried to evaluate the effectiveness of other parts of the immune response. It appears that regardless of the variant involved in infection, the original vaccines continue to provide significant protection against serious illness and death. So despite the current surge in infections, we are not seeing a significant increase in mortality. As far as I'm aware there is no good evidence that a fourth dose given to people without other risk factors offers significant benefits.
I would still recommend the virology blog TWiV on you tube is a good way to keep up to date with Covid 19 research though the video's can be a bit long.

 

[bhobba]

It appears that regardless of the variant involved in infection, the original vaccines continue to provide significant protection against serious illness and death.

Yes. We now know that here in Australia sadly 40 people are dying each day of Covid or 14,600 a year. But on a more positive note, only 3% have the 4th dose and of those, the majority are in aged care facilities and over 85. That would be 438 if everyone had the 4th dose as is now being recommended in Australia. During the 2017 flu pandemic in Queensland (the state where I live) 300 died of the flu - of course, many more would have died in the whole of Australia. The flu/cold season is only halfway through here in Aus so a few back-of-the-envelope calculations show with current vaccines we can bring it down to about the death rate of a bad flew season. While I personally would like to see accelerated development of second-generation vaccines and antivirals if that is required is arguable. But we must convince people to use the tools we currently have - that seems the most urgent issue.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Laroxe]

This is an interesting discussion and shows how complex the issue is. The panel includes Paul Offit who took part in the review of the Omicron specific vaccines, interestingly he voted against their use.

 

[Delta2]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post but I got a question which I tried to look up myself but couldn't find data.
What's the percentage of people that catch the corona virus and don't recover, i.e. they die? An average from all variants if possible..

 

[Tom.G]

In Greece (where @Delta2 is):

There have been 3,963,142 infections and 30,476 coronavirus-related deaths reported in the country since the pandemic began.

(above from:
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/greece/)

(above found with:
https://www.google.com/search?&q=how+many+covid+infections+in+Greece)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[bhobba]

What's the percentage of people that catch the corona virus and don't recover, i.e. they die? An average from all variants if possible..

It varies a bit from country to country and even within the same country from state to state. Where I am in Queensland 1.41 million got it, 1442 died. That is a death rate of about .1%. It must be mentioned the vast majority of those that died have not been vaccinated. And just 3% of those that do die have had the 4th booster. So another plug - GET THE FOURTH BOOSTER. Actually for those with the fourth booster flu seems a bigger worry. If you book in for a booter at my doctor's, you also get a flu shot - no ifs or buts. This is why there is debate on the urgency of an Omicron-specific vaccine. But it must be said while some countries like Israel are going ahead with a 5th booster, some immunlogists are getting worried there must be a light at the end of the tunnel to the number of boosters we should get. Work is progressing on a universal Covid vaccine:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-18/how-far-off-is-a-universal-vaccine/101247184

I am a bit perturbed by the mention of a lack of funding - this should be the number one priority IMHO. With the current vaccine, if people get the 4th dose and the new antivirals, I think we have the death rate under control; at least for those that have a few brains and avail themselves of the massive glut in vaccines we now have. While any death is a tragedy, it's even worse when it is the result of being ill-informed.

Here in Queensland, the main issue is not the death rate, it is the number getting it and important services like hospitals, the police etc are drastically understaffed with people off on sick leave. But people no longer want to even take the most basic of measures like wearing masks indoors in confined spaces. It reduces transmission by 20%. Even explaining that makes no difference. To be fair, a decent advertising campaign with actual numbers would likely help.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Rive]

What's the percentage of people that catch the corona virus and don't recover, i.e. they die?

Originally it was around 1-2%, depending on many local variables. By now, it's really hard to say: the immunity from previous waves and vaccines is changing/waning slowly, just as the virus is mutating. Likely it'll stay significantly lower than the original value, but not known yet that how much lower.

 

[pinball1970]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post but I got a question which I tried to look up myself but couldn't find data.
What's the percentage of people that catch the corona virus and don't recover, i.e. they die? An average from all variants if possible..

A lot of variables in there Delta I am not sure what you get out of that one number.
When and where you were when you got COVID19 determines not just the variants but ones level of immunity and level of care you received at the time.
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19

 

[Laroxe]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post but I got a question which I tried to look up myself but couldn't find data.
What's the percentage of people that catch the corona virus and don't recover, i.e. they die? An average from all variants if possible..

A number of people have suggested that this is a complicated question to answer. The link might help to understand this, and the site has lots of international data. A major issue is that few places are continuing to monitor the background rate of infection, and most deaths occur in people who have other significant health problems.

It does seem that despite the huge amount of information we now have about this disease, it continues to defy many of the predictions about how it should behave. However, currently we seem to have managed the risk of serious disease and death, which is far less common, the issue now seems to be in the economic consequences of having large numbers of people ill.

https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

 

[Astronuc]

Not sure if this is the right thread to post but I got a question which I tried to look up myself but couldn't find data.
What's the percentage of people that catch the corona virus and don't recover, i.e. they die? An average from all variants if possible..

According to NY State numbers, which like all other numbers have an as-yet unquantified uncertainty, the mortality rate is about 1% based on confirmed (in healthcare facilities) deaths and confirmed positive (PCR) tests.

Cumulative and current day's testing/positive case statistics - https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/c...oolbar=no&:tabs=n#/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/
Fatality - https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/fatalities-0

Using July 18 numbers: Cumulative positive cases - 5689612, deaths - 56832 => ~1% mortality rate. However, consider 72480 deaths, which includes about 15648 persons dying outside of a healthcare facility, then the mortality rate with respect to confirmed positive cases is greater, ~ 1.27%. However, it is expected that there are many folks who are asymptomatic, and many of those may have not been tested, or tested negative, so they are not in the confirmed positive cases, where therefore may be undercounted. If roughly, an equal number of persons have been exposed to SARS-Cov2 without developing Covid-19 and were not tested, then the mortality rate would decrease by a factor of 2, or 0.5% confirmed deaths in healthcare facilities, or 0.63% including those dying outside of healthcare facilities. And of those dying outside of healthcare facilities, it's not clear if all were tested posthumously.

Other states have different reporting details, and it seems mortality rates are about 1% of confirmed infections. Of course, that is the aggreated population, i.e., all age groups. The mortality rates are much greater for those 65+, and lower for those younger. Deaths in the younger population do happen, but are relatively rare.

 

[jim mcnamara]

@Delta2 try https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Go to Greece in the spreadsheet: row #36

Every country has different mortality rates because of levels of vaccination --as an example. Other causes apply.
<edit for clarity>
Also, some countries are unable (or maybe unwilling) to release accurate numbers. India comes to mind. They report mortality at 374/million cases - an order of magnitude lower than most other countries.

 

[Sagittarius A-Star]

Pfizer and BioNTech want now target other COVID-19-proteins than the spike protein.

Pfizer and BioNTech Advance Next-Generation COVID-19 Vaccine Strategy with Study Start of Candidate Aimed at Enhancing Breadth of T cell Responses and Duration of Protection
...
NEW YORK and MAINZ, GERMANY, NOVEMBER 16, 2022 — Pfizer Inc. (NYSE: PFE) and BioNTech SE (Nasdaq: BNTX) today announced that the companies have initiated a Phase 1 study to evaluate the safety, tolerability and immunogenicity of a next generation COVID-19 vaccine candidate that aims to enhance SARS-CoV-2 T cell responses and potentially broaden protection against COVID-19. This candidate, BNT162b4, is composed of a T cell antigen mRNA encoding for SARS-CoV-2 non-spike proteins that are highly conserved across a broad range of SARS-CoV-2 variants and will be evaluated in combination with the companies’ Omicron BA.4/BA.5-adapted bivalent COVID-19 vaccine. These non-spike proteins have been chosen based on BioNTech's proprietary target prioritization platform and were designed into a vaccine candidate with the purpose of enhancing and broadening T cell immunity and potentially extending durability of protection against COVID-19.

BNT162b4 will be evaluated in a U.S.-based study (NCT05541861) enrolling approximately 180 healthy individuals between 18 and 55 years of age, who have received at least three doses of an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine.

Source:
https://www.pfizer.com/news/announc...xt-generation-covid-19-vaccine-strategy-study

 

[bhobba]

Every country has different mortality rates because of levels of vaccination --as an example.

They sure do. I found the data fascinating. Australia is generally considered to have, overall, managed the pandemic well. Taiwan was thought to have managed it the best - or at least in the top few - its economy grew during the pandemic. But as far as the death rate per million goes, there is not much in it. Australia - 613 deaths per million. Taiwan - 582. Converting it to percentages, it is 0.061% compared to 0.058%. Compare that to the flu - it has a death rate of 0.34% for reported cases. Obviously, with the flu, many cases never get reported. Since this is for reported cases and exactly how the world document calculated its figures is not made clear, drawing any conclusions can't be done. Within Australia, only 4% of deaths have had the 4th booster (and 40% of those eligible - those over 30 - have had the booster); the death rate is MUCH lower again if you have had the 4th booster, which is another complication. Another fly in the ointment is Omicron is MUCH more transmissible than the flu.

Another interesting statistic is Sweden's death state, which some are touting as having had the best response overall - 2045 per million. I have never understood this fascination with Sweden. Sure it did not interfere with the economy as much as Australia or have long draconian lockdowns like Melbourne, but neither did Taiwan (it had a single short one as far as I know), yet did better than Sweden or Australia (admittedly not much better than Australia).

Added Later: As discussed later in the thread, I originally concluded that this is much less deadly than the flu. It was unsound reasoning, as the death rate for flu was for reported cases. We do not know the exact methodology for the Covid cases from the world document. The text has been updated to reflect this.

Thanks
Bill

 

[FactChecker]

Compare that to the flu - it has a death rate of 0.34%. The Coronavirus is less deadly than the flu.

This doesn't sound right. The CDC puts the flu death rate in the U.S. at 1.8 per 100,000. That is 0.0018%
(see https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm)

 

[bhobba]

This doesn't sound right. The CDC puts the flu death rate in the U.S. at 1.8 per 100,000. That is 0.0018%
(see https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/flu.htm)

I got it from the attached document:
'The 5 year average case fatality rate prior to 2020 (2015–2019) was 0.34%, suggesting that the low number of influenza notifications in 2020 had minimal impact on the 5 year average case fatality rate.'

But of course, as also noted, that is the percentage from reported cases. Many, of course, would not be reported. Thanks for picking up the clarification that was needed - much appreciated.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Rive]

Case fatality rate (based on a set of known cases) is just not the same as death rate (based on the whole population). I see no controversy here.

 

[Godot_]

[...] But as far as the death rate per million goes, there is not much in it. Australia - 613 deaths per million. Taiwan - 582. Converting it to percentages, it is 0.061% compared to 0.058%. Compare that to the flu - it has a death rate of 0.34%. The Coronavirus is less deadly than the flu. [...]

[Emphasis mine]

Still uncorrected (as of 20 Nov 2022)

Where's that "No controversy"?

That's the "Comparing-apples-with-oranges"-[insert preferred expletive] stuff that's being intentionally used and amplified by our anti-anything-meaningful movement over here*... ...getting gullible people angry, and some of these even killed.

Don't take this as an accusation, I assume it's been an honest mistake of sloppy reading/quoting. But still - this should've been corrected ASAP by bhobba - in the original post.* "over here" = Germany. I gather it's been even worse in the USA, which BTW can be seen in the mortality figures, too.