Can some one who understands gravity explain this?

[cannafield]

Hello everyone! This is my first post here, so I figure I would make it the most interesting thing I can think of. Which is walking on water. Some say it's a magic trick, others say it's something only Jesus can do. But how does Criss Angel do it? How can he walk on water? Some of you think he's a magician and illusionist. He claims he does some of his stunts as an illusion, though some of his stunts contradict his released statements on how he does them. (i.e. levitation) Some of the others he does are claimed by him, that they are done through meditation.

Please, I would like anyone who is interested in this post to watch this video if they haven't already seen it. Here Criss Angel walks on water and shows no signs of hoax.

If you watch the whole thing through, you'll notice when he steps on the water, the water doesn't seem to ripple much at all, if the water does at all from mass exerted by his body weight. Nor does he sink when he steps in the water. Which I don't get. He kicks off his shoes around 2:31 and a girl swam underneath him. So there couldn't of been glass or anything underneath him that would be solid enough to walk across.

The most seemingly logical guess other than this I can think of, would be that he had a magnet underneath his feet some how and one covering the radius of his body from above, while he is being in the magnetized in the middle, causing him to levitate. But, I'm not sure that could be done. Even if it could, when he stepped on the water, wouldn't he exert mass on the water, causing his foot to sink down in the water atleast more than 1/10th of an inch (if he did sink at all), rather than just walking on it like a solid? Not at one point it did seem like he exerted any gravity on the water. If it looks like he did to some one else, can you point it out. I close examined it for about 10 minutes, probably could look at it longer though to make more determination. Even if he had a floating device attatched to his feet to act as a buoyancy compensator, it would have to be transparent and bigger than his foot to make it so he doesn't exert force on the water causing him to sink - right? I'm a certified scuba diver and my father builds submarines. So I know a thing or two about how buoyancy works. His weight appears to be at 0. Could this be high spin monatomic atoms, mfktz?

 

[cesiumfrog]

So [in one person's opinion] there couldn't of been glass or anything underneath him that would be solid enough to walk across.

This isn't a gravity question. It's just a trick. It's not even an interesting puzzle, since you can't prove how much the footage (your only measurement) has been modified. If it were in any way real, there is also a real million dollar prize that he can claim any time if he demonstrates to some real scientists that it isn't a hoax. A million dollars says he can't do that.

 

[russ_watters]

Plexiglass!

It would be easy to see if they ever showed a view up from the bottom when his foot is down, but of course, they don't...

 

[cannafield]

they did show a view from underneath. even so, if he was stepping on the plexi glas, wouldn't he exert pressure on it causing him to sink atleast a little? he doesn't sink at all. Obviously there isn't glass layed out where he walks, and it isn't attatched to his feet. Plexiglass is used for aquariums and what not. Even if it was, he wouldn't be able to walk without sinking a little, no matter how balanced he was. Do you honestly think a strip or two or three or four smaller than 12 inches each could hold say 180 lbs?

PMMA is less dense; its density can range from 1150-1190 kg/m3. This is less than half the density of glass which ranges 2400 to 2800 kg/m3

 

[russ_watters]

they did show a view from underneath.

But not while he was 'standing on the water'.

even so, if he was stepping on the plexi glas, wouldn't he exert pressure on it causing him to sink atleast a little?

Not if it was engineered correctly, no.

Do you honestly think a strip or two or three or four smaller than 12 inches each could hold say 180 lbs?

Plexiglass is pretty strong. It would only need to be perhaps half an inch thick and supported every 5' or so - plenty of room for a woman to swim under it.

 

[lpfr]

If you look attentively around 2:42 and around 2:57 you will see a suspicious straight feature on the water. It is just visible in one or two frames. But it may be the effect of the support on the water surface.

 

[cannafield]

If you look attentively around 2:42 and around 2:57 you will see a suspicious straight feature on the water. It is just visible in one or two frames. But it may be the effect of the support on the water surface.

I doubt it. People swam perpindicular to him underneath and above, upright and horizontal.

Plexiglass is pretty strong. It would only need to be perhaps half an inch thick and supported every 5' or so - plenty of room for a woman to swim under it.

So, if I stepped on a piece of plexiglass floating in a pool with waves, staying in place - and centered my weight evenly, I would stand without exerting pressure?

even so, if he was stepping on the plexi glas, wouldn't he exert pressure on it causing him to sink atleast a little?

Not if it was engineered correctly, no.

can you elaborate how you can not exert pressure when you step on a floating strip of plexiglass?

I'm not going to say with certainty what he does, but if there was some sort of plank or pedestool attatched to the bottom of the pool, I'm suprised no witnesses have spoken out about that. Because, as far as I can see - most Christians would be super pissed about this if they were to assume that it wasn't a hoax. It just seems like some one would say after witnessing it underwater that it was a hoax. I mean, they swam perpendicular to him upright and underneath his straight path... it just doesn't seem logical that he could have anything underneath him, does it? I think he exploits high spin monatomic atoms, or mfktz. But I won't assert anything yet, because I lack rescources for the time being.

 

[Doc Al]

I think he exploits high spin monatomic atoms, or mfktz.

I take it this is your first exposure to Mind Freak or to magic? (Check out his sawing a woman in half video!) Rather than look to some exotic physics explanation, look to the principles of magic. I've seen Banachek (and other magicians) doing things right in front of my eyes that would have blown my mind--if it wasn't for the fact that I've seen the tricks before and that I know these guys are con artists (in a fun way).

You can also Google this particular trick and get some speculation on how it's done--similar to what's been discussed in this thread. Don't forget: THEY CHEAT!

FYI: Banachek, who appears in the video clip, besides performing himself, makes a living inventing tricks for other magicians.

 

[lpfr]

I doubt it. People swam perpindicular to him underneath and above, upright and horizontal.

Instead of doubting, LOOK! Then you can tell that you haven't seen it.

Did you found someone swimming on the surface before or behind him? Isn't strange?

 

[berkeman]

Speaking of Criss' illusions, did you see the one where he climbed through a restaruant's front window? That was pretty clever, but also pretty obvious if you know how tricks like that are done.

 

[russ_watters]

Yeah, there's a thread about that around here somewhere...

 

[russ_watters]

So, if I stepped on a piece of plexiglass floating in a pool with waves, staying in place - and centered my weight evenly, I would stand without exerting pressure?

No...

can you elaborate how you can not exert pressure when you step on a floating strip of plexiglass?

You misunderstood what I said: he would exert pressure, but the plexiglass wouldn't sink if it was supported properly. And it isn't floating either.

You may also notice that except for the woman swimming under him, no one ever crosses his path.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I find it rather distressing that this guy has impressed so many people. I have even had adults argue that this guy is for real!

 

[berkeman]

I find it rather distressing that this guy has impressed so many people. I have even had adults argue that this guy is for real!

Yeah, it's one thing trying to convince my 12 y/o son berkeboy (who loves learning magic tricks as well).

 

[out of whack]

Hey, neat trick! Well done.

it just doesn't seem logical that he could have anything underneath him

On the contrary, of course it does. It's completely illogical to think that he would not have anything underneath him because then, well, he would sink. This is where you have to start in order to understand an illusion: you cannot defy nature, you can just conceal the tools and methods used to create this illusion. So there is definitely something that supports his weight, the challenge is to figure out what and how he hides it well enough to fool everyone.

We know that illusionist don't work alone. He would probably be unable to pull off this trick without at least his cameraman tracking his feet all the way through the pool. I guess this assistant is moving transparent supports as the magician slowly and meticulously takes his steps. The gadgets themselves must have been in the pool already before the trick began. One or more other assistants (normally pretty girls) contribute to the make believe by judiciously swimming between supports the right way to make it seem like there aren't any. They probably also help to move them.

There is an engineering challenge of course: build small yet stable plexiglass supports that can be discretely guided by the assistants. They don't have to be big since there is hardly three feet of water where he crosses. It looks deeper because everyone is squatting (except one girl from 02:23 to 02:29 who forgets to do so, she probably won't be hired back). It looks even shallower than 3 feet when the shoe drops at 02:31/02:32.

Also consider that the clip was shot with at least five cameras. The magician has one, so does his assistant in the pool, and we see at least two other cameramen shooting both of them at 01:23, maybe there are more given the multiple angles. There are also underneath shots at 02:15 and other times when shoes are dropped taken from a camera of unknown origin which does not match the in-pool assistant's position (he is always pointing at the magician).

Then, notice that the scene was shot not once but at least twice. You can see at 02:59 that the shadow of palm trees have moved from where they were at 01:38 and 02:10 so the end of the crossing is 10 or 20 minutes after the start. Editing is necessary to eliminate portions of the trick where the supports were visible. If they are too obvious, cut to another camera angle, show pretty girls or something. No ugly broad in sight of course, it complicates editing.

Still, pretty neat trick. It must also look great live (not that you would be the one who is allowed to swim under the illusionist).

 

[nabuco]

I can't believe no one noticed this guy is walking on a transparent tightrope. You can even catch a quick glimpse of it around the time he drops his shoe.

Lousy trick...

 

[out of whack]

I can't believe no one noticed this guy is walking on a transparent tightrope.

I doubt it. The shot at 01:54 where the babe swims under him shows that his steps are not taken along one line. He is walking on something wider than a rope. It could be two ropes of course, but then at 02:40 one assistant appears to cross his path (though not convincingly so). But I also don't see his feet wobbling sideways as happen with tightrope walkers.

I am guessing that there are at least two separate supports guided by assistants using fishing lines or other means. Note the peculiar way the in-pool man holds his "camera", and you never see what his left hand is doing. Note also that the same "spectators" are in the pool for both takes of this scene. There may be more assistants in the pool than I thought at first. It makes sense since it takes many people to control intruders who could interfere with the illusion.

 

[delta001]

How the hell did this guy make an elephant disappear without any mirrors, ropes or trapdoors in the pavement, if anyone saw that episode. The nature of these magicians simply confounds me.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

I am fairly confident that Criss Angel pays people to stand there and say "WOWWWW". Its TV, things can be edited fairly easily. It is common practice for magicians to use 'stooges'. I won't say I know for sure, but the elephant trick strongly hints at the use of stooges. Thats not even magic in my oppinion

For example, in this video : . I think the trick works because it is a pane of glass which can be lifted upwards to reveal a hole which he climbs through(read this on a forum somewhere, maybe it was PF), but there is someone inside who acts astonished... stooge 100% for certain. So how do we know that he didn't just pay everyone present at the recording of the elephant stunt? :-(

 

[LightbulbSun]

Any good sources on how the 'walk on water' trick is pulled off? Because my girlfriend keeps claiming that Criss Angel does his tricks based on psychology, and I think that's a load of crap. How is a 'walk on water' trick based on psychology?

 

[K.J.Healey]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6616406655978150142&q=criss+angel

^^ his levitation trick explained by himself.

 

[J77]

That's just OK -- even the girl in red, who swims "under" him, doesn't go directly beneath him. For me, he obviously has a couple of beams he's placing each foot on which someone's moving for him -- even looks like he's balancing when he loses the shoe.

And the other girls are pretty terrible at acting -- smaller bikinis would've been a better distraction

 

[David Burke]

Mate! I know this is a debunking thread but you should really get a grip on reality. Dude, it's magic/entertainment. Science is based on being able to replicated results so that they're useful. Not just to entertain people.

Mate, he's suspended by a rope of some sort, have a look at the physics of his body as he walks. He doesn't look like he's puting weight on his feet. He also looks as if he is lifted out of the pool at the end because he slightly lifts without effort on the last step which it looks as if he doesn't know where he's going to step until the last minute when he appears to lift slightly. If your going to debunk something please have a slight grip on reality.

 

[Mk]

Why hasn't the explanation of it been plexiglass cylinders been offered?

 

[G01]

Have any f you guys ever seen that trick were he lays on this guys fence and impales himself! I love that one, really freaks out the people watching! Anyone have an idea of how he does this??

 

[baywax]

Have any f you guys ever seen that trick were he lays on this guys fence and impales himself! I love that one, really freaks out the people watching! Anyone have an idea of how he does this??

He replicates himself in a Tesla replicating machine (see: The Prestige) and impales the replicant. Then stands up and takes a bow.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Why hasn't the explanation of it been plexiglass cylinders been offered?

This seems to be the most plausible explanation for how he "walks on water", and I plan on testing this in the near future. It's obviously a multitude of platforms because if he could truly walk on water he wouldn't have to be so careful with his steps.

 

[DaveC426913]

I have watched his show, and I have done a bit of research on him and have determined and there is one trick up his sleeve that magicians before him didn't take advantage of - which is why his audience falls for the trick.

He is, first and foremost, a TV showman.

His segments are very definitely edited. He cuts real illusions with staged illusions and crafts a TV experience. More importantly - and this is the one that even we 21st-century people wouldn't be so cynical as to question - He stages audience reactions.

eg. He'll do his "small" levitating trick (the chair one) with genuine audience A, and then splice it into the same segment with his "big" levitating trick (the building-to-building one) with staged audience B. The net effect is that naive TV viewers assume all scenes and all audiences are bona fide. They're not.

The buiilding-to-building trick is done with a simple crane. It's the awestruck audience that's the illusion.

Do some reading, it's not really a closely-kept secret. you can even start with Wiki.

 

[DaveC426913]

As for the walking on water, I'll list just one example:

At 1:55 we see his own viewpoint looking down into the water, where a girl swims under him. We can see no supports under his feet. How does he do this?

Quite simple. So simple, we daren't think he would insult our intelligence.

For that shot, he is hanging from an overhead crane; his feet are barely touching the water.

The illusion here, is the audience - and the editing - which, when crafted by an expert con man, leads us to believe that
a] the shot is continuous
b] the trick can be done without any apparent supports or props
c] the audience is there throughout all shots (including the ones where we see no audience)
d] the audience is not staged

In short, this is the TV equivalent of "PhotoShopping".

 

[russ_watters]

Why hasn't the explanation of it been plexiglass cylinders been offered?

It was offered in post #3...

 

[russ_watters]

As for the walking on water, I'll list just one example:

At 1:55 we see his own viewpoint looking down into the water, where a girl swims under him. We can see no supports under his feet. How does he do this?

Quite simple. So simple, we daren't think he would insult our intelligence.

For that shot, he is hanging from an overhead crane; his feet are barely touching the water.

The illusion here, is the audience - and the editing - which, when crafted by an expert con man, leads us to believe that
a] the shot is continuous
b] the trick can be done without any apparent supports or props
c] the audience is there throughout all shots (including the ones where we see no audience)
d] the audience is not staged

In short, this is the TV equivalent of "PhotoShopping".

Dave, I really don't think it needed to be anywhere near that elaborate. The camera angle was pretty tight. All it required was to not have the supports in the frame.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I hate people like Criss Angel who toy with the impressionable.

 

[Gelsamel Epsilon]

Chris is a crappy magician - Penn and Teller all the way.

 

[CINA]

At 1:53 both of his feet appear to be in the air at the same time...

 

[mgb_phys]

At 1:53 both of his feet appear to be in the air at the same time...

Haven't seen the video but is his back is toward you and is he wearing baggy trousers?
The usual way to do this is to have a small magnet in the side of the shoes and a slit in the front of the trousers. You put the shoes together an slip one leg out forward through the trousers. You then stand up on this leg on a (hidden) platform in front of you. The other leg lifts the shoe and trousers held in place by the magnet - it looks like two legs off the ground.
It's been done for 100s of years.

I do dislike his shows for using stooges in the audience to check props - if you are going to do this you might as well do the whole show in CGI.