Enigman said:Wasn't there a volcano which mummified a whole city in Rome? Pompey or something...
Pythagorean said:The monks who practice self mummification are called Sokushinbutsu. IIRC, it involves fasting to death and taking in a special wine or something that helps preserve them.
Here we are, it was tea not wine:
http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2007/07/self-mummified-monks-of-japan.html?m=1
In the two pictures they posted the mummies look pretty skeletal to me. I'm not seeing anything remarkable at all, except for the fact they had the will power to starve themselves to death in the lotus position.leroyjenkens said:Sounds like a lot of myth has attached itself to that story. I'm skeptical.
I'm skeptical about everything leading up to the mummification. 3 years of nuts, then 3 years of bark and roots? Can you even survive on that?In the two pictures they posted the mummies look pretty skeletal to me. I'm not seeing anything remarkable at all, except for the fact they had the will power to starve themselves to death in the lotus position.
Depends on what's in the bark and roots, obviously. And don't forget that here, in our own culture, anorectics and bulimics routinely malnourish themselves for extended periods.leroyjenkens said:I'm skeptical about everything leading up to the mummification. 3 years of nuts, then 3 years of bark and roots? Can you even survive on that?
I don't see why. We're talking about extreme people, here, and you must have encountered non-controversial history of people doing things more extreme than this.And then the whole thing about the box and the bell just seems mythical.
Because it's 6 years, or because it's suicide? If you can make someone go through 6 months of training to be a suicide bomber, why not 6 years?Not to mention 6 years preparing a suicide seems like something no one would do.
I'm pretty sure that none of those seeds, nuts, bark, or roots have B12, which is essential. I don't think you can survive for 6 years without B12.Depends on what's in the bark and roots, obviously. And don't forget that here, in our own culture, anorectics and bulimics routinely malnourish themselves for extended periods.
It's just the idea of it. I'm not questioning the possibility of it, but the very details of him being in a box, and ringing the bell once a day to indicate he's still alive seem fantasized. It sounds like something that was just tacked on at the end.I don't see why. We're talking about extreme people, here, and you must have encountered non-controversial history of people doing things more extreme than this.
6 months of training isn't the same as 6 years of a torturous ascetic lifestyle which will ultimately end in you dying. 6 years is a long time to be focused on doing everything in the right way to lead up to the moment you put yourself in a box to die.Because it's 6 years, or because it's suicide? If you can make someone go through 6 months of training to be a suicide bomber, why not 6 years?
Yeah, I know, but 6 years seemed like a substantial amount of time to receive none and still be kicking.However, B12 deficiency doesn't lead to people just croaking over and dying.
Nuts, yeah, but what about bark and roots?An assortment of nuts will likely contain a sufficient variety of the amino acids as well. At least sufficient that it will take a long time to die (which is the plan anyway).
We'd have to have more information on what exactly they ate. There are some nutrients you can't survive 3 years without. And even if you can survive without some nutrients, but surviving a sicker and sicker existence, I doubt they could keep a self-sufficient lifestyle. Being sick is a broad spectrum. It can be anywhere between feeling a little icky, to being a complete invalid.By the time they're taking bark and roots, they're on their way out anyway. Its part of them dying, so its not far fetched really.
leroyjenkens said:It's just the idea of it. I'm not questioning the possibility of it, but the very details of him being in a box, and ringing the bell once a day to indicate he's still alive seem fantasized. It sounds like something that was just tacked on at the end.
rationalwiki said:The argument from incredulity is a logical fallacy that essentially relies on a lack of imagination in the audience.
The general form of the argument is as follows.
Minor premise: One can't imagine (or has not imagined) how P could be so.
Major premise (unstated): If P, then one could imagine (or would have imagined) how P could be so.
Conclusion: Not-P.
As a syllogism this is valid. The fallacy lies in the unstated major premise. If a state of affairs is impossible to imagine, it doesn't follow that it is false; it may only mean that imagination is limited. Moreover, if no one has yet managed to imagine how a state of affairs is possible, it doesn't follow that no one will ever be able to.
See above.leroyjenkins said:6 months of training isn't the same as 6 years of a torturous ascetic lifestyle which will ultimately end in you dying. 6 years is a long time to be focused on doing everything in the right way to lead up to the moment you put yourself in a box to die.
zoobyshoe said:There's a lot of things I would never imagine people would ever do, but it turn out there's actually some percentage of extremists who will do them.
I would think everyone has heard of someone like this. The numbers must be quite high. Therefore, it's no stretch at all for me to believe 16 Japanese monks have done it somewhat more ritualistically.AlephZero said:Indeed. I knew a teenager who spent 6 years starving herself to death (literally) with anorexia. Apart from that disorder (and its effect on what she looked like) she was apparently a perfectly normal, had friends, had interests outside out home and school, and her school exam results were good enough for a place at university. She was in a family with apparently normal parents and 3 apparently normal siblings, and getting the best specialist treatment available (but as the specialists said, if the only treatment option left is forced intravenous feeding and keeping a 24 hours a day watch on somebody for the indefinite future, is the "cure" worse than the disorder?...)
She finally died aged 19, - average height for her age, but weighng less than 60 pounds.
IMO living on bark and roots for a few years doesn't seem too improbable, compared with that.
It would be a fallacious argument if I was basing a conclusion that it's false on the idea that it's too extreme for someone to actually do. I didn't do that. That was just one aspect of it that contributed to my disbelief. I didn't claim it never happened, I just said I was skeptical that it happened and gave reasons why I was skeptical.See above.
There's a lot of things I would never imagine people would ever do, but it turns out there's actually some percentage of extremists who will do them.
They can eat all the bark and roots they want, but if it doesn't contain nutrients vital for their survival, then it's not valid to compare them with just someone who didn't eat very much.IMO living on bark and roots for a few years doesn't seem too improbable, compared with that.
The preservation of a Buddhist monk's body is seen as a sign of their spiritual purity and enlightenment. It is believed that their bodies have transcended the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth and have reached a state of eternal bliss.
The preservation of a Buddhist monk's body is often attributed to a combination of meditation, diet, and embalming techniques. It is believed that the monk's meditation practice helps to slow down their bodily functions, while their simple diet helps to reduce decay. Additionally, some monks may undergo a special embalming process to further preserve their body.
Some of the most well-known Buddhist monks whose bodies have not decayed include Thich Quang Duc, Thich Huyen Quang, and Thich Quang Do. These monks are all from Vietnam and have been recognized as spiritual leaders and symbols of Buddhist teachings.
The preservation of a Buddhist monk's body is often seen as a miraculous phenomenon, as it goes against the natural process of decay. However, it is also believed to be a result of the monk's spiritual practice and dedication to their beliefs. Whether it is considered a miracle or not is open to interpretation.
Some scientists have suggested that the preservation of a Buddhist monk's body could be attributed to environmental factors, such as the climate and soil conditions of where the body is buried. Others propose that the embalming techniques used by the monks may play a role in the preservation. However, there is no definitive scientific explanation for this phenomenon.