Is It Overprotective to Limit a Partner's Friendships?

[tikay]

Exactly. He suffocated you , it didnt worked for you. You left. I have a Gf, it doesn't work for me, I leave. What I try to underline here is that no person should put itself through **** in the name of "Trust". If the relation works for you good, if it doesn't work, also good, it's just life, we can very well be on our separate ways.

This is true and thus the lovely quote " c'est la vie " remains popular today, outdoing the formerly popular "que sera sera" by just a tad.
hahaha
;~})

I want only to imagine that in this early love affair he is having just now, he is REALLY invested, as probably he is, Early love can be very intense, and life shaping, remember?
So why not do the mature thing, and establish that, unless he has seen good reason to begin to leave his quest to remain her prince...he should allow that love for her to grow.
Saving himself from leaving every relationship that does not go his way like i did...until he is my age, (48) and saying I have loved countless people, alas, none have LASTED and i am alone...

I am merely coming from my experience, and my life meme...and wishing him better with what we have learned about social patterns & bahaviors over the years, since I left everyone, for the next similar relationship. (i.e. we take ourselves with us)

 

[tikay]

I agree with this. I could never wrap my head around statements like "I thought we could be friends for what is inside me, not for my body" or "Well, (s)he got this position of work because he is an attractive person and used his sexuality ... "


What "defines" a person is a set of attributes. This includes your physical looks. There is nothing bad in using your looks in making your way though life, not anymore than using your brain. They are both *you*. There is nothing wrong in appreciating a person for their bodies and sexuality, as there is nothing wrong in appreciating , let's say, their PhD in English literature and the passion for it :P

Why try to separate the two ?

Well for instance, why keep a baby who has deformities then? Eugenics would surmise it best to destroy children who will possibly be at a great disadvantage in life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Is it then something we should consider, to eliminate babies born with atrociously un-lovely hair lip, (cleft pallet) and such? Should we be kinder to the beautiful people,simply because they had healthier DNA, and because they are beautiful? Should I have been destroyed for having spinal meningitus as an infant?

 

[DanP]

This is true and thus the lovely quote " c'est la vie " remains popular today, outdoing the formerly popular "que sera sera" by just a tad.
hahaha
;~})

And all will be well. si Deus quiser...

I want only to imagine that in this early love affair he is having just now, he is REALLY invested, as probably he is, Early love can be very intense, and life shaping, remember?
So why not do the mature thing, and establish that, unless he has seen good reason to begin to leave his quest to remain her prince...he should allow that love for her to grow.

Because at no age it worth to get stuck in a relationship which doesn't work for you.

I am merely coming from my experience, and my life meme...and wishing him better with what we have learned about social patterns & bahaviors over the years, since I left everyone, for the next similar relationship. (i.e. we take ourselves with us)

As we do all. From wildly different cultures and life encounters.

 

[tikay]

Exactly. He suffocated you , it didnt worked for you. You left. I have a Gf, it doesn't work for me, I leave. What I try to underline here is that no person should put itself through **** in the name of "Trust". If the relation works for you good, if it doesn't work, also good, it's just life, we can very well be on our separate ways.

Ok yes, BUT, you and I both know that if we continue to leave everyone who does not fit, that maybe...noone is ever going to fit, and eventually we have to look to ourselves for what the dang problem is really, are all people scarred and unacceptable to us, or are we? Am I right?

 

[DanP]

Should we be kinder to the beautiful people,simply because they had healthier DNA, and because they are beautiful? Should I have been destroyed for having spinal meningitus as an infant?

No, but why not accept what you are ? Be comfortable in your skin, and if your looks can help you, don't be ashamed to use it. Nobody blames you if you use your brain, so nobody should blame you if you use your ***. It's still *you* :P

 

[DanP]

Ok yes, BUT, you and I both know that if we continue to leave everyone who does not fit, that maybe...noone is ever going to fit, and eventually we have to look to ourselves for what the dang problem is really, are all people scarred and unacceptable to us, or are we? Am I right?

This is where you start to negotiate. And maybe my games, my hikes and my friends will not be anymore so important, and your time with your friends will be less fiercely defended. And maybe we meet somewhere where both are very comfortable with each other.

 

[tikay]

Because at no age it worth to get stuck in a relationship which doesn't work for you.

Ahhh BUSTED! i was perhaps being somewhat ageist, PERHAPS!

But having so many relationships, can be a burden too. Especially for us women who are slutty, while you men are considered Romeo's. (So Not FaiR)!
;}

I find myself wishing that i had gone to more intense therapy with that first husband of mine. i find that the mistakes REPEAT and Repeat. i think that perhaps I am the one who leaves most often, (& isn't able to maintain stability) albeit for good reason maybe.

You see, at 48 i have moved from place to place on average once a year, I have counted forty-one moves, SO...Kind of hard to learn about long term relationships like this!
What my gypsy-hearted mom has started, that fire she put under my arse, remains lit, and it gets hot, so i move on, but this life isn't for many!

 

[DanP]

Ahhh BUSTED! i was perhaps being somewhat ageist, PERHAPS!

But having so many relationships, can be a burden too. Especially for us women who are slutty, while you man are considered Romeo's. (So Not FaiR)
;}

Don Juan is dead. In this age we are called "men with issues of commitment". Unfair too !

I find myself wishing that i had gone to more intense therapy with that first husband of mine. i find that the mistakes REPEAT and Repeat. i think that perhaps I am the one who leaves most often, (& isn't able to maintain stability) albeit for good reason maybe.

I think couple therapy doesn't work after the **** hits the fan. It may help before , helping the two not to end in a spot where all is wrong already.

You see, at 48 i have moved from place to place on average once a year, I have counted forty-one moves, SO...Kind of hard to learn about long term relationships like this!
What my gypsy-hearted mom has started, that fire she put under my arse, remains lit, and it gets hot, so i move on, but this life isn't for many!

Not bad. At least is not a boring life :P I like traveling its one fo the best things in life. See new places. Meet new ppl.

 

[tikay]

No, but why not accept what you are ? Be comfortable in your skin, and if your looks can help you, don't be ashamed to use it. Nobody blames you if you use your brain, so nobody should blame you if you use your ***. It's still *you* :P

Well, I'm fairly comfortable with me. I am fairly well adjusted in my own mind...LOL

I am just saying that to bear down on people, treating them differently because they look different, or have lesser ability, is inherantly wrong, and to eliminate folks from your life
(essentially "killing them off") because they don't suit your high standards, where appearance is concerned, well the killer is the loser then, because most peoples "value" is not based on their looks.

Yes, sadly, people will get jobs and the like based upon lessened ability, and better looks, but that is just corporate b.s., we can understand the hypothesis behind it but we don't have to agree with it.

So that, sure, if you or I have an unlimited bank account, we are not going to go out and buy a crappy looking car from the local junk heap and fix it up (well if it were a 'classic' maybe yeah~ still)...The basic premis is that WE can afford any car on any lot, and we will buy exactly what we really want.

This idea is not necessarily wrong, but it is about good fortune (and the choices of youth). Some don't have this good fortune, and sometimes it is in the looks department. Does that make them unworthy of a nice car? No, not necessarily, they may deserve it far more than you or I, but we hit the lotto, you know?

Such is my idea, so that "companies" who hire the young inexperienced person for their looks do so because they have that leverage of having the ability to get what they want, any kid on the lot is thiers, for the taking, but does the kid deserve the job more than old Uncle Joe? Probably not... therefore, if things were more fair in life, they would be hired to learn under uncle Joe and eventually deserve said position they will more than likely beat him out of.

Business like that shouldn't be allowed to poliferate, we should basically boycott companies who are predjudiced based upon age, physical handicap, or appearance. And I hope people will begin to see the value in people more, based on things other than appearance.

 

[tikay]

Don Juan is dead. In this age we are called "men with issues of commitment". Unfair too !
.

Okay, a bit of both is going on, that's true! Still you know many who believe that women who sleep around are cold-hearted sluts, and guys who do are um, LUCKY bastads. While maybe we were merely raised during the oft' forgotten sexual revolution, and it held some sway with us.

I think couple therapy doesn't work after the **** hits the fan. It may help before , helping the two not to end in a spot where all is wrong already.

.

Absolutely correct, and everyone should know these days that marital therapy alone, won't often work without heavy emphasis on anger management for the abusive partner (sometimes female). And that with abusive folk it may increase the liklihood of another explosion to expose the attacker to another person, right in front of their bruised ego.

Not bad. At least is not a boring life :P I like traveling its one fo the best things in life. See new places. Meet new ppl.

It's has its up's & down's, don't know my blood family any longer. got lots of surrogate family though, in many different places.

speaking of travel i have to leave in five to pick up my ex from the metro, He is comin in from Los Angeles...he is bringing in a couple ah keys... (to my house)!
hahaha

HappY Day Everyone, if I don't get back, we may BBQ.

 

[DanP]

Okay, a bit of both is going on, that's true! Still you know many who believe that women who sleep around are cold-hearted sluts

Actually, some of my favorite beings alive are "cold-hearted sluts"

 

[zoobyshoe]

This is in part the sort of mentality that I am describing. The idea that there is anything "wrong" with considering a friend as a sexual being. It would seem to me that this sort of idea is what creates consternation and disfunction among people who could otherwise be good friends. The discomfort of persons who are the object of attraction or who see the other as an object of attraction driving a wedge between them. It seems between men a women a constant source of distress when there is no reason for it to be. Rather than necessarily ignoring natural inclinations if people could only see it as natural and of no great importance that they find an individual sexually attractive it would not become such a divisive element of our interactions with the opposite sex(or same sex as the case may be).

Amen.

 

[tikay]

And maybe we meet somewhere where both are very comfortable with each other.

I suggest you come to my house for a great dinner party!

 

[DanP]

I suggest you come to my house for a great dinner party!

I love party !

 

[tikay]

I love party !

hehehe
Everyone can come!
LOL

This is how I see young love~

I can't post from youtube...
here is my link...then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXN30DpC9vk&feature=related



"Babylon" By Angus & Julia Stone



Red blooded, spirit filled, heartening, joyous~ I would never try to tell the young man to move on from Love, only to sink in and stay as Long as Love will have the two of you over!

In other words "hunker down" my friend, she is worth it for a while!
;~})

 

[DanP]

hehehe
Everyone can come!
LOL

This is how I see young love~

I can't post from youtube...
here is my link...then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXN30DpC9vk&feature=related
"Babylon" By Angus & Julia Stone
Red blooded, spirit filled, heartening, joyous~ I would never try to tell the young man to move on from Love, only to sink in and stay as Long as Love will have the two of you over!

In other words "hunker down" my friend, she is worth it for a while!
;~})

And this is how I see it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0E_f03gJ8io&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0E_f03gJ8io&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Hot blooded, filling the holes, dynamic & unforeseeable

Routine breeds prediction and respect. Both are boring. Ill take wet passion instead. No matter how long it lasts

 

[tikay]

So in love sometimes you bleed a little, if you stay to bleed, there are increasing benefits...the time worn lovers who last, have said through-out time that they just took the person for worse, for better...and sometimes you die by the drop.

If you know what I mean...

I kindly disagree that LOVE is EvER BoRinG!
;~})

 

[DanP]

So in love sometimes you bleed a little, if you stay to bleed, there are increasing benefits..

Did it worked for you ? For me it did not.

 

[tikay]

Did it worked for you ? For me it did not.

I bled plenty, and then when I was done with bleeding with any particular guy, I left or he did because i'd begin to grumble and rawr.. It worked while it worked, an then it didn't. I'm just saying that if he is just in a bit of pain, and the love is still flowing pretty freely...well "Suck it up bro", and enjoy the ride. Sort of like riding a roller-coaster, it has it's scary moments but is totally worth if, if you don't have a queasy tummy (because nobody likes throwing up).

Or do they?

 

[DanP]

...

Or do they?

I have no idea. What I know is that life is awesome, no matter through what you ride

 

[tikay]

I have no idea. What I know is that life is awesome, no matter through what you ride

Absolutely, all in all, what I have wanted to say to Mentallic is that there are challanges in ANY relationship, so yeah, try to enjoy the ride!

 

[Huckleberry]

Perhaps there is some confusion on the issue of what presents as "sexually attractive". If I look at a person and consider them to be physically attractive I count that the same as finding the person sexually attractive, the concept of what is physically attractive is based very likely on a biological program which dictates what we perceive as being a likely sexual partner. Since as I have already said that I do not consider it necessary to desire to have sex with any person I find attractive this presents no issue of conflict in having a "normal" relationship with that person( for me anyway). As far as the sister thing goes I have never had any issue there as I unfortunately haven't the greatest relationship with my family and can only try very hard to see anything at all attractive about my sister physically or otherwise. I see the blockage there of perceiving a sister in a sexual context as primarily a social convention, though I am willing to admit to having no direct parallel in my own experience to base this on. We can see in fact though that is it not entirely uncommon for sister and brother to develop a sexual attraction one for another. It is even more common among step siblings where the influence of the social convention among family is at its weakest. One might even suggest that the typical protective instinct of a brother for his younger sister is not wholly unlike a protective instinct for ones own mate (and vice versa).


To me this seems not an atypical consideration for either males or females, though their reaction to it may differ. It seems that your average male tends to think females who show any interest in them what so ever are sexually attracted to them and often brag of it to their friends, and females(particularly young females) typically seem to consider any positive attention from males as a sexual advance. If you are concerned of how this may effect women in their dealings with men I think that they have the situation well in hand. Women who are single and have moved beyond any societal brainwashing that they ought be pure innocent flowers of femininity seem to have little issue with the idea that men who give them attention are likely sexually interested in them (and vice versa) and seem to more often consider it complimentary. Less experienced females who have esteem issues seem to take a similar view, all be it more naive and immature, of male attention.

The first thing that you notice about any individual, per force, is their physical appearance (saving internet meetings, wherein even there superficial considerations are not uncommon). There is an interesting looking study I found while googling earlier that says people seem to be capable of determining personality characteristics based solely on physical appearance (mediated by the idea that persons personalities are influenced in part by others perceptions) and I am a firm believer that mere physical characteristics are only part of what attracts one person to another romantically. That is to say that your consideration of a persons physical appearance is likely also a consideration of their personality and hence your perception of any individual as a prospective friend is likely based on an initial response to their physical features. Of course any consideration of a person as a potential mate is based in part on personality features which you likely partially derive from physical features. And any person who tells me that they look for entirely separate personality features in friends as opposed to mates I would laugh at. They either are deluded or only looking for a stead lay as opposed to a potential mate.
As for the difference regarding "old ladies" and "family members" I would say that it is a cultural inhibition. One of my best friends was an older woman who I never considered sexually attractive. She told me that she considered me an attractive man, though never in a flirtatious or sexual manner. While I perceived her in more of a "motherly" fashion, which I am sure she expected, I would be doing her a disservice to figure that she was only jiving me when she said that she would have been "all over me" had she been younger. As if I did not trust her perception and evaluation of me as a potential mate. Whose opinion are we really to trust and appreciate more than that of those matronly figures in our lives? Even my own mother often told me that I reminded her very much of my biological father, and not in a flattering way. Those cultural distinctions seem to begin to blur and not seem so very distinct.

I am perhaps taking a very literal definition of "platonic" as "strictly and definably separate" where I see the "definable separation" as not being very strict or clear. To be attracted to someone and then decide to just be friends sort of blurs the line between strictly definable categories. You can perhaps create in-between categories but they seem to be artificial (if you'll pardon the term) separations that only really attempt to map the vagaries of reality.


edit: @Huck as well, there is no reason for apologies between "friends". I do not chide you to illicit apologies but only to bring your attention to things you seem to have not noticed. We seem to think very much alike although we may take different routes to our conclusions and there is no reason to apologize for that. :-)

A person can have any number of qualities I consider attractive and not be considered sexually attractive. A person can also be considered sexually attractive without desiring to have sex with that person. Attractiveness describes a quality, or group of qualities, that draws my favorable attention towards the attractive subject. It does not necessarily include a desire or a desirable intent of the nature of the quality describing it towards the attractive subject.

I can say a sunset is beautiful and I mean physical attractiveness is one of its qualities. I can say Mickey Rourke is sexy and I mean that sexual attractiveness is one of his qualities. It doesn't mean I desire to possesses the attractive qualities of, or desire to have sex with sunsets or Mickey Rourke, though those desires can also exist. It's a perception of those qualities in the subject that I am observing. If I say to a woman that she is sexy it means that I want to have sex with her as much as it means I want to look like her if I say she is beautiful. People commonly associate attraction as a personally possessive quality unto itself rather than a favorable subjective observation.

I recognize a biological sexual drive. There is a general societal norm for sexual behaviour, and the closer one shifts their view towards individuals the more variance one sees. It appears to me that sexual preference is a learned behaviour somewhat separate from the sexual drive. I recognize no universal dictate in how the desire for sex is felt or expressed. A natural feeling or expression of desire for one person may be completely unnatural to another. Availability of sexual options may be a factor in what someone finds sexually attractive, but even that isn't guaranteed by any means.

I agree that not seeing a sister in a sexual context is a social convention. So is not seeing other races, same sexes, the very old, the very young, animals, corpses, and volleyballs named Wilson in a sexual context; to varying degrees depending on the individual's learned behaviour. Sometimes a person's natural sexual desire leads them to unconventional places. Brainwashing is just a way for saying that one disagrees strongly with a societal customs. If it is possible to have a platonic relationship with anyone of a sexually preferred gender then sexual attraction is subject to an individual's perception, regardless of the source of that perception. We're also assuming the subject of attraction is alive, able to reciprocate equally, and of the same species, but since any relationship would be questionable in that context it isn't meaningful to talk about platonic relationships.

I'm not sure what you mean by defining platonic as "strictly and definably seperate." What is it separate from? I'm guessing that you mean an admiration for the personality of a person separate from their appearance would be platonic, but is unlikely because how one perceives another's appearance is also how they are likely to perceive another's personality. I wish it weren't so, but there are many women whose personality I admire and I do not associate that with physical attraction. Personality is reflected in a person's appearance, but it is not synonymous with it. Even a blind man can see someone's personality.

It can be very annoying when people are all over you with sexual propositions. Then when you tell them you aren't interested they continue to do it over and over. It's like going on a car trip with a 5 year old who keeps asking "Are we there yet?" So you turn your head to the backseat and sternly say "Stop that now or we're pulling this relationship over!" Then when they give up they become petulant and say "Fine! You're ugly anyway!" or something equally inflammatory, or maybe they just decide to disappear without a word. That happens enough and you come to expect it any time someone shows sexual interest without first finding interest in your other qualities. It can feel like people are trying to tear off pieces of you while you watch helplessly. So when women, and sometimes men are guarded and annoyed when someone finds them sexually attractive I get it. It sucks, but it's their problem. The problem exists because the other person is objectifying them, disregarding their personality. There mere fact that someone is considered sexually attractive is complimentary if the person saying it can be trusted to be relaxed about it. Not everyone is as laid back about their sexual desires as you are.

 

[Hestia]

He's what you would describe as being an emo.

being emo doesn't automatically make you emotionally unstable. You cannot judge a person on what type of music they listen to. That is just being stereotypical.
P.S if you don't like emos why are you dating one? Your girlfriend certainly sounds like one.

 

[DanP]

. I can say Mickey Rourke is sexy and I mean that sexual attractiveness is one of his qualities. It doesn't mean I desire to possesses the attractive qualities of, or desire to have sex with sunsets or Mickey Rourke, though those desires can also exist.

I hope from all my heart that you are a women. I mean, a man finding another man sexy ? Its ... gay. Not that is anything wrong with being gay.

 

[arildno]

I hope from all my heart that you are a women. I mean, a man finding another man sexy ? Its ... gay. Not that is anything wrong with being gay.

I am gay. But...Mickey Rourke? The girls can have him

 

[Mentallic]

being emo doesn't automatically make you emotionally unstable. You cannot judge a person on what type of music they listen to. That is just being stereotypical.
P.S if you don't like emos why are you dating one? Your girlfriend certainly sounds like one.

I classify him as emo because he's had suicidal tendencies, not because of the music, but that does fit the stereotype. My girlfriend isn't emo, and I didn't say I hate them, just that I don't trust them once they have a thing for my girlfriend and start asking her out

I am gay.

I don't come by gays very often, so seeing this is like 1 in a (insert percentage of gay population to total population here, then take its reciprocal and multiply by 100).

Nice to see that you're open about it

As for Mickey Rourke, I had to google image the guy, and by the very first image that pops up... damn... I'm with arildno on that one.

 

[arildno]

As for Mickey Rourke, I had to google image the guy, and by the very first image that pops up... damn... I'm with arildno on that one.

A sensible boy you are!

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I don't come by gays very often, so seeing this is like 1 in a (insert percentage of gay population to total population here, then take its reciprocal and multiply by 100).

Something like 1 in 10-20, but I don't think most people are that open about it. Number is, of course, frequently debated.

As a heterosexual male, I can say that I find it difficult to tell when men are attractive, I can't see it. I can however generally see when men are ugly. And Mickey Rourke is ugly.

 

[Mentallic]

Something like 1 in 10-20, but I don't think most people are that open about it. Number is, of course, frequently debated.

It's those damned bisexuals I tells ya. Overcomplicating these statistics with their crazy antics... who do they think they are!?

As a heterosexual male, I can say that I find it difficult to tell when men are attractive, I can't see it. I can however generally see when men are ugly.

Same here

 

[zoobyshoe]

I don't come by gays very often...

Do you live in an underground bunker or something?

 

[gabbagabbahey]

Do you live in an underground bunker or something?

Maybe he's from Texas.(Or Iran; if you believe their loony-toons president)

 

[Huckleberry]

I hope from all my heart that you are a women. I mean, a man finding another man sexy ? Its ... gay. Not that is anything wrong with being gay.

No accounting for taste on my part apparently, but yes, I think he's a sexually attractive man. No, I'm not gay, but I've been called that before several times. Once by a roomate who was a divorced wife beater/deadbeat dad, and another time by a great uncle who was over 70 and liked to crudely proposition cocktail watresses for sexual favors. The odd thing is that I don't even like homosexuality, but much like I view attraction, there isn't a dislike associated with a person who is homosexual. I hope that one day it won't be necessary to add a disclaimer such as 'not that there is anything wrong with that' to differentiate between an unfavorable practice and an association of that unfavorable view towards a person. What I hate is insecure machismo, mostly because it threatens to punch me in the face or belittles me in front of my relatives any chance it gets. As of yet, no homosexual has ever threatened me in any way because of their homosexuality. Live and let live.

 

[Mentallic]

I don't come by gays very often

Do you live in an underground bunker or something?

Why, you see them all the time? I live in an average suburb, do you live in a gay club?

 

[lisab]

Why, you see them all the time? I live in an average suburb, do you live in a gay club?

You may not recognize them when you see them. Like TubbaBlubba said, the exact percentage isn't exactly known but 1 in 20 is probably close.

 

[DaveC426913]

Why, you see them all the time? I live in an average suburb...

Of what size city and what country?

I live in a Megatropolis in Canada and I would say 1 in 20 is low*. And that's not even counting the fact that I have the worst gaydar on the planet.

*I'm sure being the home of one of the largest gay pride parades in the world had nothi9ng to do with it



There are some men who are attractive no matter your persuasion.

I would have George's children.