911 in 2008 - How has this changed us?

[Ivan Seeking]

"Us" could mean in the US, the citizens of another country, or the global community.

Anyone who has been around here for a time knows my feeling about this. I believe that the attack changed the US in ways that are fundamental - that for now, the terrorists have won. This is why we we have seen the use of and/or public debates about torture, tactical nukes, preemptive war, spying on US citizens, secret prisons, illegal incarceration, and generally a betrayal of the deepest and most significant, core American values. In the past, the US has certainly engaged in unacceptable activities, but in the past we have always appealed to the better angels in our nature. Since 911, we have sold out to fear.

The irony is that by winning, the terrorists lose as well. If you want a far more dangerous world for everyone, then change the US. The terrorists attacked a few buidlings, and we countered by attacking two countries - one that had nothing to do with the attack. So hopefully the world will take note: Change the US and you have a very dangerous mad dog to deal with rather than a nation fundamentally dedicated to peace, and freedom for everyone.

Help to find our way back to sanity. Don't let fear control your life. Vote Obama.

 

[LightbulbSun]

The terrorists attacked a few buidlings, and we countered by attacking two countries - one that had nothing to do with the attack.

The terrorists didn't attack empty buildings. They killed 3,000 innocent civilians because of their retarded ideologies.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The terrorists didn't attack empty buildings. They killed 3,000 innocent civilians because of their retarded ideologies.

I think everyone realizes that there were people in those buidlings and aircrafts. Is your point that we should live in fear and throw out the Bill of Rights because 3000 people died? How many people in the US have died in auto accidents since then; about 280,000? Have we eliminated cars yet?

We have the Constitution and The Bill of Rights to protect us from retarded ideologies, like those of our enemies. In fact, retarded ideologies are precisely why we have the Bill of Rights in particular. And those who have assaulted the Constitution are, through their own retarded ideology, a greater threat than the terrorists. We have the Republicans to thank for this. They are the ones who have allowed this, along with far too many Americans. But I am just as disgusted by the Democrats who went along with it. They should all be tossed out!

"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it's terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No... Only we can change ourselves. So what is the great threat we are facing?" - Colin Powell

 

[russ_watters]

I think everyone realizes that there were people in those buidlings and aircrafts. Is your point that we should live in fear and throw out the Bill of Rights because 3000 people died?

That appears to be what you think happened, but I don't know anyone who lives in fear and the Bill of Rights is still the Bill of Rights.

 

[Cyrus]

That appears to be what you think happened, but I don't know anyone who lives in fear and the Bill of Rights is still the Bill of Rights.

I would replace live in fear, with live in ignorance. I've overhead a few people making ignorant comments about how we have to 'attack them over there' at random places around town back when the war in Iraq was intense and there were talks about including Iran.

It's sad and disgusting to see fellow americans think they are experts in world politics with their simple minded logic and world view. Yeah, attack them there so they don't attack us here! People REALLY do believe this nonsense.

It's like the interview with Bill O'tool and Obama. He asked Obama would you define this as a war on terror? (STUPID question) Obama, "I would hunt down and kill Osama Bin Ladin" (STUPID answer). Americans - clap clap clap wow this is really great Q&A!

It's pathetic, and moronic. The world isn't this simple, and these questions highlight American ignorance. Instead of taking the time to learn about the dynamics of the situation and current state of the world, let's just use one liners. Fight them there! Pull out of Iraq! For more years! Etc, etc, etc...

Here is what I've noticed about America vs. other countries. In other countries they remember things. If you do something to them, they hold a grudge. For a LONG time. Not so much here. Why? Because we are Myopic and have amnesia. We repeat the same mistakes, and it seem's the time span of repeating our mistakes is getting shorter and shorter. It's as if we don't learn a damn thing about mistakes made in the past when trying to solve problems in the future.

Note: I don't want to come off as Anti-American, but I expect a whole lot more from the population of a wealthy superpower nation.

 

[cristo]

Here is what I've noticed about America vs. other countries. In other countries they remember things. If you do something to them, they hold a grudge. For a LONG time. Not so much here. Why?

I'm not sure that I would agree with you that countries other than the US hold a grudge, but if you think other countries remember things more than you, perhaps this is because the US, as a country, is so much younger than many other countries around the world. The more history you have, the more there is to remember.

 

[Cyrus]

Said differently: There are more deep seeded dislikes. For example, you might say behind closed doors people in germany for example, don't like all the turks inflowing into their country.

Whereas in the US, we really don't hate or dislike anyone country since its by construction a melting pot of everyone.

Of course, the irony in all this is that internally we hate each other. Blacks, Jews, Gays, Atheists, spanish immigrants.

The more I look around me as an American, the more blatant Hypocrisy I see. It's really getting to me lately.

 

[OmCheeto]

Said differently: There are more deep seeded dislikes. For example, you might say behind closed doors people in germany for example, don't like all the turks inflowing into their country.

Whereas in the US, we really don't hate or dislike anyone country since its by construction a melting pot of everyone.

Of course, the irony in all this is that internally we hate each other. Blacks, Jews, Gays, Atheists, spanish immigrants.

The more I look around me as an American, the more blatant Hypocrisy I see. It's really getting to me lately.

Stop projecting! I've had "biblical knowledge" of all those "others", and of a few more...

Hence, I'm going to hell with the Quranic fanatics who broke all of the rules.

But to get back on topic, no one in my family has changed due to 9/11, as far as I can tell anyways.

We did, after all, finish painting my brothers living room the day it happened.

We may be all Buddhists at heart. I don't know.

 

[LightbulbSun]

I think everyone realizes that there were people in those buidlings and aircrafts. Is your point that we should live in fear and throw out the Bill of Rights because 3000 people died? How many people in the US have died in auto accidents since then; about 280,000? Have we eliminated cars yet?

We still have the Bill of Rights so I don't follow your point. Your analogy does not follow either because terrorists deliberately killed 3,000 people. Auto accidents are accidents.

 

[OmCheeto]

I think everyone realizes that there were people in those buidlings and aircrafts. Is your point that we should live in fear and throw out the Bill of Rights because 3000 people died? How many people in the US have died in auto accidents since then; about 280,000? Have we eliminated cars yet?

We still have the Bill of Rights so I don't follow your point. Your analogy does not follow either because terrorists deliberately killed 3,000 people. Auto accidents are accidents.

I've heard that about 50,000 people die unnecessarily every day, mostly children, due to something or other.
Since 9/11/01, by my calculations, that's at least 100,000,000 people.
About a third of the population of the USA.

I'm not surprised that little has changed.

 

[Cyrus]

We still have the Bill of Rights so I don't follow your point. Your analogy does not follow either because terrorists deliberately killed 3,000 people. Auto accidents are accidents.

The point he was trying to make is that yes, 3,000 people were killed. But what was done as a result of this? Was there a well thought out plan? Who did this to us. Why did they do this? What can we do to avoid this in the future?

What was the answer pushed by the repubicans? Because they hate our freedom. They hate our way of life. Um, no. Sorry. If you really think this, you ought to go watch some real news sources and listen to real people who know what's going on in the middle east.

So, after asking these questions one then has to ask what is the appropriate reaction. Afghanistan was a good job. Then came Iraq that left everyone saying what the hell's going on? If you want, I can give you the episde of Charlie Rose with a four star general basically saying everything we did in iraq was flat out wrong. From the very notion of even going in there, to the execution. It was a big F'up. This isn't something to debate, its a well established FACT by many high ranking people in the government/military/intelligence services.

So, 3,000 people were killed. What's that got to do with Iraq? The answer is absolutely nothing. To a limited extent, Sadam aided some terrorists (see. Hitchens on that point). But to the extent of invading the country on fabricated WMDs...gimme a break.

More focus and attention should have been spent in afghanistan.

Back to my point about myopia and ignorance. What happened just after 9/11? People went running around beating up and killing sikhs because they wear a turban. Not muslim, and from a different country. Myopic: Did we learn nothing about how we treated the Japs during the war? Ignorant: do you even have any world view of different peoples/cultures?

The behavior of americans right after 9/11 towards middle easterners is as dispicable to me as the terrorists ignorance to americans. A country that is a wealthy superpower should be educated enough to know better than act like this.

If North Korea attack us today, I'd be out of my mind to go around finding and beating up/killing any asians I found on the streets.

It's as disgraceful as letting a thousands of black people starve and drown to death after a major natural disaster.

These are the problems you get when a society only cares about one liners and cheap political statements from politicians. An educated public would not stand for any of this, not in a million years. If we are to survive as a country and a superpower, people need to turn off their tv's, and start reading some books. Stop reading this christian fundamental garbage. If you want to believe in god, do it moderately. Read science, philosphy, literature, world history, art...Educate our minds as a nation. That what 9/11 should have taught us. We can't afford to be ignorant.

What do we do instead? No stem cell research, no gay marriage, no teaching evolution. We learned nothing from 9/11. Sorry folks, nothing.

 

[LightbulbSun]

What was the answer pushed by the repubicans? Because they hate our freedom. They hate our way of life. Um, no. Sorry. If you really think this, you ought to go watch some real news sources and listen to real people who know what's going on in the middle east.

They actually do hate our way of life. We are the infidels to them. Their goal is to rule the world with their retarded ideology. Yes, there are other factors involved, but that's the underlying foundation of their hate towards western civilization.

So, after asking these questions one then has to ask what is the appropriate reaction. Afghanistan was a good job. Then came Iraq that left everyone saying what the hell's going on? If you want, I can give you the episde of Charlie Rose with a four star general basically saying everything we did in iraq was flat out wrong. From the very notion of even going in there, to the execution. It was a big F'up. This isn't something to debate, its a well established FACT by many high ranking people in the government/military/intelligence services.

You really can't make judgments on historical implications until about 20 years after the fact. The work for our next president is cut out for them. Make Iraq a sovereign nation and then get the hell out of there.

So, 3,000 people were killed. What's that got to do with Iraq? The answer is absolutely nothing. To a limited extent, Sadam aided some terrorists (see. Hitchens on that point). But to the extent of invading the country on fabricated WMDs...gimme a break.

I'm not exactly shedding tears over the death of Saddam. If it had come under any other context would people be weeping as much over his death?

More focus and attention should have been spent in afghanistan.

Troops are still in Afghanistan.

Back to my point about myopia and ignorance. What happened just after 9/11? People went running around beating up and killing sikhs because they wear a turban. Not muslim, and from a different country. Myopic: Did we learn nothing about how we treated the Japs during the war? Ignorant: do you even have any world view of different peoples/cultures?

Are you calling me ignorant? Yes, I agree with you that just mere days after 9/11 that people were overreacting by talking about nuking the entire Middle East. We shouldn't start hate campaigns on American citizens, let alone human beings, just because some ideological retards think blowing up buildings is going to progress their retarded ideology.

 

[Cyrus]

They actually do hate our way of life. We are the infidels to them. Their goal is to rule the world with their retarded ideology. Yes, there are other factors involved, but that's the underlying foundation of their hate towards western civilization.

No Lightbulb sun, no. They don't go around bombing most of the western world. How many terrorist attacks do you see in South America from middle eastern terrorist? Yes, you are infidels to them because by its very defnition it means 'non-believers'. So let's not blindly use that word without a proper context. Their goal is NOT to rule the world with their 'retarded ideology'. If you think so, please show me WHO is saying that. NO one I've seen on charlie rose that are experts has EVER said that. Had you taken the time to actually see what they said, they mainly are fighting you becaue they want you OUT of the middle east. (Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Palestine). If you are going to make statements about terrorists, then you need to read up about them. Statements from FOX news doesn't cut it.

You really can't make judgments on historical implications until about 20 years after the fact. The work for our next president is cut out for them. Make Iraq a sovereign nation and then get the hell out of there.

Excuse me? I just told you four star generals and many top people in the government said this was a disaster from day 1. The invation even lack any basic plan of reconstruction after the overthrow of sadam. Come on people, let's not forget history THIS fast. The major turning point was the looting that went out of control and the raid of the baghdad museum.

What do I care about what's cut out for the next president. It's got nothing to do with what I said. You're statements of one liners really need to be refined by more careful study of what's going on. Your statement in bold is pie in the sky meaningless.

I'm not exactly shedding tears over the death of Saddam. If it had come under any other context would people be weeping as much over his death?

I'm not going to answer comments on things I did not say.

Troops are still in Afghanistan.

And they were having problems with the Taliban regaining control of the country.

Are you calling me ignorant? Yes, I agree with you that just mere days after 9/11 that people were overreacting by talking about nuking the entire Middle East. We shouldn't start hate campaigns on American citizens, let alone human beings, just because some ideological retards think blowing up buildings is going to progress their retarded ideology.

No offense, but you are exactly what my post complains about. Simple logic on a complex problem. Your comments are NOT refined nor thoughtful. If you want to say 'ideological retards', and 'they hate our freedoms' then you really know almost nothing about the problem at hand. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but its the truth. By all means, go listen to some experts. Go watch some interviews on charlie rose. Watch Bob Woodward, watch generals, watch people from the CIA. Listen to what they had to say about the planing and events leading up to the war. These are not pundits. These are top poeple with security clearance.

 

[LightbulbSun]

No Lightbulb sun, no.

No Cyrus, no. You know the reason 9/11 happened was because Osama Bin Laden got food poisoning at a McDonalds. They don't want to dominate the world with their stupid religion. No, everything is fine as you've said. All you have to say to make it true is to say I got my comments from Fox News.

Excuse me? I just told you four star generals and many top people in the government said this was a disaster from day 1. The invation even lack any basic plan of reconstruction after the overthrow of sadam. Come on people, let's not forget history THIS fast. The major turning point was the looting that went out of control and the raid of the baghdad museum.

And leaving Iraq as a war zone is beneficial to them, how?

What do I care about what's cut out for the next president. It's got nothing to do with what I said. You're statements of one liners really need to be refined by more careful study of what's going on. Your statement in bold is pie in the sky meaningless.

Right, solutions are meaningless. Who's using simple logic again?

I'm not going to answer comments on things I did not say.

You implied that Saddam was a victim with your question of "what's Saddam got to do with 9/11?" That's was elicited my response.

No offense, but you are exactly what my post complains about. Simple logic on a complex problem. Your comments are NOT refined nor thoughtful. If you want to say 'ideological retards', and 'they hate our freedoms' then you really know almost nothing about the problem at hand.

You're the one who's being so naive and drinking the kool aid. Saddam is a victim, and Islam doesn't want to dominate the world with their ideologies. Right dude. Kool Aid talk. It's as retarded as people saying "terrorists don't exist! They're just made to be boogeyman!" Again, right dude, right. Now all you have to do is tell me I got that from Fox News and then my comment will be fully debunked.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but its the truth.

Kool aid truth which is faux truth.

 

[seycyrus]

Back to my point about myopia and ignorance. What happened just after 9/11? People went running around beating up and killing sikhs because they wear a turban. Not muslim, and from a different country. Myopic:

In the years following 9-11, incidents of racism agains arabs specifically and muslims in generally were at the same basic rate as years preceeding 9-11. In fact, I recall a high rate of anti-semitic incidents in the southern states in the following years. Certainly even average joe public whom you seem to brand as less intelligent, know the difference between a Jew and a Muslim.

As a fact, US citizens were NOT running around mobbing and lynching arabs. Isolated cases of racism against arabs and bigotry towards muslims were highlighted and ridiculed by most people.

The behavior of americans right after 9/11 towards middle easterners ...

US Society as a whole did NOT vilify people from the middle east, in general.

In the town I was in, the middle eastern coffee shops, two of which were owned and run by a guy named *Obama*, were open for business and their normal clientele was there, myself included.

It's as disgraceful as letting a thousands of black people starve and drown to death after a major natural disaster.

I dispute your use of the word "let". I also note that katrina affected more white folk, than black.

These are the problems you get when a society only cares about one liners

Case in point.

... We learned nothing from 9/11. Sorry folks, nothing.

Well some of us learned something.

 

[LowlyPion]

I also note that katrina affected more white folk, than black.

Unfortunately though, I think it's fair to say that blacks, or the poor if you prefer, as usual were adversely affected disproportionately more. Those poor likely predominate in the numbers displaced more than 6 months after and likely among those still displaced from the storm 3 years later.

Making the point that Bush was merely equal opportunity in his administration's mishandling of relief and rescue efforts is hardly a useful distinction.

 

[seycyrus]

...
Making the point that Bush was merely equal opportunity in his administration's mishandling of relief and rescue efforts is hardly a useful distinction.

I'll look into the statistics regarding the your comment that I snipped.

But as for the comment I included. It certainly *is* a useful distinction since we were talking about racism.

 

[seycyrus]

Ehh, it's lunchtime. But here's a source that does not appear to be blatantly conservative in bias. I'm sure I'll be told otherwise if I'm wrong. This article doesn't talk about property damage, but life lost.


Data: Most Hurricane Katrina victims were not black
http://www.scrippsnews.net/node/30871

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Data: Most Hurricane Katrina victims were not black
http://www.scrippsnews.net/node/30871

Most of the people in the storm's path were not black. What a waste of newsprint.

 

[Cyrus]

No Cyrus, no. You know the reason 9/11 happened was because Osama Bin Laden got food poisoning at a McDonalds. They don't want to dominate the world with their stupid religion. No, everything is fine as you've said. All you have to say to make it true is to say I got my comments from Fox News.

This statement has nothing to do with anything. It's simply your own misinformed opinion. I asked you what experts/terrorists themselves said they are trying to 'take over the world'.

And leaving Iraq as a war zone is beneficial to them, how?

...you're not very good at paying attention. I've made no reference to cut and run. I made statements about the leading up to and execution of the war. Please talk about what I am saying.

Right, solutions are meaningless. Who's using simple logic again?

No one said solutions are meaningless, except you just now. AGAIN, NOT what I've been talking about.

Seriously, pay attention to what I'm saying or don't bother posting a reply. This is getting old fast.

You implied that Saddam was a victim with your question of "what's Saddam got to do with 9/11?" That's was elicited my response.

I never said any such thing. And if I implied it I did not mean to. Again, you're off point.

You're the one who's being so naive and drinking the kool aid. Saddam is a victim, and Islam doesn't want to dominate the world with their ideologies. Right dude. Kool Aid talk. It's as retarded as people saying "terrorists don't exist! They're just made to be boogeyman!" Again, right dude, right. Now all you have to do is tell me I got that from Fox News and then my comment will be fully debunked.

Please don't post unless you're going to be serious. So far, you have managed to miss every point I was trying to make.

Stop replying to my posts with things I never said.

 

[LightbulbSun]

This statement has nothing to do with anything. It's simply your own misinformed opinion. I asked you what experts/terrorists themselves said they are trying to 'take over the world'.

Right, nothing to do with anything. You made the claim that the Middle East doesn't hate western civilization. I brought up 9/11 to refute your nonsensical point.

And you never asked me for anything. Please take your own advice and pay attention to what I say.

...you're not very good at paying attention. I've made no reference to cut and run. I made statements about the leading up to and execution of the war. Please talk about what I am saying.

Ok, then what do you suggest as a solution for Iraq?

I don't think you're being serious in this discussion.

 

[Gokul43201]

Back to my point about myopia and ignorance. What happened just after 9/11? People went running around beating up and killing sikhs because they wear a turban. Not muslim, and from a different country. Myopic:

In the years following 9-11, incidents of racism agains arabs specifically and muslims in generally were at the same basic rate as years preceeding 9-11. In fact, I recall a high rate of anti-semitic incidents in the southern states in the following years. Certainly even average joe public whom you seem to brand as less intelligent, know the difference between a Jew and a Muslim.

As a fact, US citizens were NOT running around mobbing and lynching arabs. Isolated cases of racism against arabs and bigotry towards muslims were highlighted and ridiculed by most people.

Sikhs are not Arabs (or Muslims or Jews). It sure looks like you've just made cyrus' point about ignorance.

And for your information: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.hate.crimes/

Hate crime reports up in wake of terrorist attacks

September 17, 2001 Posted: 7:15 AM EDT (1115 GMT)ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Reports of hate crimes against Muslims and southeast Asians have risen exponentially across the U.S. in the wake of Tuesday's terror attacks. The backlash has prompted Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee to ask President Bush Sunday to ensure the safety of Sikhs living in the United States.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations says it received more than 300 reports of harassment and abuse from Tuesday through Thursday night, nearly half the number it received all last year. Khalid Iqbal, director of the Washington, D.C.-based advocacy group, says cases range from families being spat and yelled at, "Go back to your country," to assaults on people and businesses.

In Mesa, Arizona, a man was charged with first-degree murder Sunday in connection with a series of shootings that police said could be a racially-motivated response to last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.

Mesa police said Francisco Roque, 42, was being held on a $1 million bond in the killing of Balbir Singh Sodhi, 49, a Chevron gas station owner. Sodhi, from Punjab, India, was shot to death while doing landscaping outside his business Saturday afternoon.

Many Sikhs believe he is the first to have been killed in retaliation for the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Family members, friends, and members of the Indian Sikh community say they are being targeted because their men wear turbans and long beards as part of their religious dress, a tradition that's lasted for 500 years.

 

[LowlyPion]

Ehh, it's lunchtime. But here's a source that does not appear to be blatantly conservative in bias. I'm sure I'll be told otherwise if I'm wrong. This article doesn't talk about property damage, but life lost.

Data: Most Hurricane Katrina victims were not black
http://www.scrippsnews.net/node/30871

First of all Scripps is not exactly a Liberal source serving the mid range communities as they do. But that said this passage I guess sums up the Bush administration's priorities.

The data showed that blacks were more likely to drown or die of a physical injury than whites. They were more than twice as likely than whites to die along a street or highway. Whites, meanwhile, were more likely than blacks to die in a nursing home.

Blacks and old people. A real equal opportunity emergency preparedness plan, that's not racially biased if you throw aging whites into the waters as well?

 

[vociferous]

My family immigrated to New York to escape pogroms and to make a better life for themselves. Even though I was born in San Francisco, a lot of my family still lives in and around New York. At the time, I had pretty liberal views. The September 11th attacks greatly changed my perspective. I had just started my sophomore year of college, just taken my first real physics class. I decided to join the Army. I think the amount of life experience I gained because of that was tremendous. My political views are a lot more moderate and I have seen a lot more of the world, a lot more of the ugly side of humanity than I could have appreciated or imagined as a teenager before 9/11.

The US citizens had never witnessed a single act of mass murder on their own home soil like what happened on September 11th. We got a little taste of the kind of horrible tragedy that happens all the time in places like Darfur. I think what I will remember most about that day were the Britons gathering on the steps of our Embassy in London to sing the Star Spangled Banner.

 

[cristo]

In the years following 9-11, incidents of racism agains arabs specifically and muslims in generally were at the same basic rate as years preceeding 9-11. In fact, I recall a high rate of anti-semitic incidents in the southern states in the following years.

Sorry, you can't just throw out comments and expect them to be taken as fact without any reference. Here, for example, are some statistics regarding hate crimes towards muslims in the years before and after 9/11: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5305868.stm

 

[vociferous]

Sorry, you can't just throw out comments and expect them to be taken as fact without any reference. Here, for example, are some statistics regarding hate crimes towards muslims in the years before and after 9/11: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/629/629/5305868.stm

I remember a number of high profile incidents, mostly involving Indians, following September 11th. In some of these, the motivation was pretty clear, but not in other cases. A lot of them involved Sikhs who were working in already dangerous occupations like small stores/gas stations or taxi drivers. They are a lot more visible (because they often wear turbans) than most American Muslim men, who usually tend to dress and act like any other American.

 

[Cyrus]

Right, nothing to do with anything. You made the claim that the Middle East doesn't hate western civilization. I brought up 9/11 to refute your nonsensical point.

Get lost with this racist garbage. When 9/11 happened countries like Iran held a candlelight vigil for the lost americans. You really need to read up more before speaking.

And you never asked me for anything. Please take your own advice and pay attention to what I say.

You really need to cut out this nonsense. You respond to my posts with comments, statements, and one-liners that have nothing at all to do with what I said.

Ok, then what do you suggest as a solution for Iraq?

I don't think you're being serious in this discussion.

What do I suggest as a solution for Iraq? What's that got to do with anything?

Man, pay attention or stop wasting my time.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Get lost with this racist garbage. When 9/11 happened countries like Iran held a candlelight vigil for the lost americans. You really need to read up more before speaking.

Right dude, I refer you to these links:

Muslims Celebrate on 9/11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbpbiJE3mI"

A British-American Historian who specializes in the history of Islam and the interaction between Islam and the West: http://tonyinosaka.googlepages.com/muslimrage-atlantic.pdf"

You really need to cut out this nonsense. You respond to my posts with comments, statements, and one-liners that have nothing at all to do with what I said.

I'm the one challenging your points. You respond with personal attacks.

What do I suggest as a solution for Iraq? What's that got to do with anything?

I'm curious about what you see as a solution for the turmoil in Iraq. It doesn't have to be too specific. Just a general view.

 

[vociferous]

Right dude, I refer you to these links:

Muslims Celebrate on 9/11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDbpbiJE3mI"

A British-American Historian who specializes in the history of Islam and the interaction between Islam and the West: http://tonyinosaka.googlepages.com/muslimrage-atlantic.pdf"




I'm the one challenging your points. You respond with personal attacks.




I'm curious about what you see as a solution for the turmoil in Iraq. It doesn't have to be too specific. Just a general view.

Believe it or not, not every Muslim in the Middle East is a carbon-copy caricature. Just like Americans, they have individual values, religious beliefs, personalities, political views, and attitudes.

 

[mheslep]

...The behavior of americans right after 9/11 towards middle easterners is as dispicable to me as the terrorists ignorance to americans. A country that is a wealthy superpower should be educated enough to know better than act like this...

In the years following 9-11, incidents of racism agains arabs specifically and muslims in generally were at the same basic rate as years preceeding 9-11. ...

...US Society as a whole did NOT vilify people from the middle east, in general...

...
And for your information: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.hate.crimes/

Conflicting arguments. What do the Muslims say? Well, they vote with their feet.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/10/n...s Topics/Subjects/W/World Trade Center (NYC)"

“America has always been the promised land for Muslims and non-Muslims,” said Behzad Yaghmaian, an Iranian exile and author of “Embracing the Infidel: Stories of Muslim Migrants on the Journey West.” “Despite Muslims’ opposition to America’s foreign policy, they still come here because the United States offers what they’re missing at home.

 

[LightbulbSun]

Believe it or not, not every Muslim in the Middle East is a carbon-copy caricature. Just like Americans, they have individual values, religious beliefs, personalities, political views, and attitudes.

And I never said they were, but to rightfully deny that they hate us is baseless.

 

[LowlyPion]

Muslims Celebrate on 9/11:

And if YouTube had been around in 1876, you might be able to link to Lakota and Cheyenne genuinely celebrating their run in with Custer on the Little Big Horn. But that didn't mean then, or now, that all Indians were bad. Or that they achieved anything but a short term benefit.

And today neither do a few anecdotal staged celebrations that get played for the cameras mean that Muslims generally feel any great victory was won, or that whatever feeling good there may have been was anything but short lived.

If there was any message to draw from any of what happened on 9-11, it was that no one won. It was essentially a stupid thing to do, and it triggered a response that didn't serve the purposes of al-Qaìda either. If they found out anything at all, it is the world is ultimately too massive, the infrastructure too great, to intimidate with terror or hope to do anything but interrupt temporarily.

 

[baywax]

Thank you, America, for bearing the brunt of tragedy as well as you have.

 

[Cyrus]

And I never said they were, but to rightfully deny that they hate us is baseless.

If you're going to make all these bold uninformed claims, please back this garbage up with sources.

 

[LightbulbSun]

If you're going to make all these bold uninformed claims, please back this garbage up with sources.

I already did.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1869288&postcount=28"

Pay attention dude.