Who Are Potential Vice Presidential Candidates for Obama and Clinton?

[RonPaul2008]

What is your point? Hilary Clinton isn't doing too hot either, but that isn't stopping many Democrats from standing behind her through thick and thin. You should never support or refuse to support a candidate based on his or her chances of winning. I share most of Ron Paul's beliefs, and I will write in his name on the ballot. I'm still hoping he will make an appearance and a political statement at the RNC, though, so that the next time he runs people will know who this guy is and what he is about. He is still on the ballot. No, he isn't doing well, but I'd say roughly 20% during the North Carolina Republican primaries is significant for somebody not well known who has not received nearly as much media coverage compared to other candidates. I think people and the media need to give this guy a chance and listen to what he has to say.

 

[turbo]

What is your point? Hilary Clinton isn't doing too hot either, but that isn't stopping many Democrats from standing behind her through thick and thin. You should never support or refuse to support a candidate based on his or her chances of winning. I share most of Ron Paul's beliefs, and I will write in his name on the ballot. I'm still hoping he will make an appearance and a political statement at the RNC, though, so that the next time he runs people will know who this guy is and what he is about. He is still on the ballot. No, he isn't doing well, but I'd say roughly 20% during the North Carolina Republican primaries is significant for somebody not well known who has not received nearly as much media coverage compared to other candidates. I think people and the media need to give this guy a chance and listen to what he has to say.

He has NO chance unless some nut-case assassinates McCain. Clinton is in the same boat. Do you think that we are going to select our leaders through a process that involves assassination? You have gone way past theoretical to psychotic.

 

[Evo]

He is still on the ballot.

Are you serious?

No, he isn't doing well,

Understatement of the year.

not well known who has not received nearly as much media coverage compared to other candidates. I think people and the media need to give this guy a chance and listen to what he has to say.

That is exactly why he isn't taken serious, people *have* looked at what he's saying and his voting record.

Sorry, IMHO, Ron Paul only appeals to an odd fringe. The numbers speak for themselves.

 

[RonPaul2008]

" Do you think that we are going to select our leaders through a process that involves assassination?"

When did I once mention or imply assassination as the best method of leadership selection? That would go against my libertarian views. The only realistic revolution in a free society is done with ballot sheets, not bullets.

"That is exactly why he isn't taken serious, people *have* looked at what he's saying and his voting record."

Here is an overview of his voting. What do you find so questionable about his voting or his views? You still haven't been clear as to what you find so wrong with this guy or what would be wrong with his plans if he becomes president. Nobody has countered and explained why.

He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.

"Sorry, IMHO, Ron Paul only appeals to an odd fringe. The numbers speak for themselves."
I hate to tell you, but the majority aren't always right. The majority believed in slavery back in the day, if you could believe it. Sometimes it takes a few insightful men to make drastic and effective change. America does need change, but Obama isn't the one. By the way, I'm still waiting on the senator's explanation of what exactly his "changes" will be. Ron Paul has been very clear on what his will be. But whenever I see the Obama campaign spouting off change, it seems awfully reminiscent of John Kerry saying "I have a plan" with a broken record, without ever revealing what that plan was.

 

[drankin]

" Do you think that we are going to select our leaders through a process that involves assassination?"

When did I once mention or imply assassination as the best method of leadership selection? That would go against my libertarian views. The only realistic revolution in a free society is done with ballot sheets, not bullets.

"That is exactly why he isn't taken serious, people *have* looked at what he's saying and his voting record."

Here is an overview of his voting. What do you find so questionable about his voting or his views? You still haven't been clear as to what you find so wrong with this guy or what would be wrong with his plans if he becomes president. Nobody has countered and explained why.

He has never voted to raise taxes.
He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
He has never taken a government-paid junket.
He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
He voted against the Patriot Act.
He voted against regulating the Internet.
He voted against the Iraq war.

"Sorry, IMHO, Ron Paul only appeals to an odd fringe. The numbers speak for themselves."
I hate to tell you, but the majority aren't always right. The majority believed in slavery back in the day, if you could believe it. Sometimes it takes a few insightful men to make drastic and effective change. America does need change, but Obama isn't the one. By the way, I'm still waiting on the senator's explanation of what exactly his "changes" will be. Ron Paul has been very clear on what his will be. But whenever I see the Obama campaign spouting off change, it seems awfully reminiscent of John Kerry saying "I have a plan" with a broken record, without ever revealing what that plan was.

I would like to see more of Ron Paul, myself. We'll see what happens.

 

[Astronuc]

Interesting!

Chuck Hagel Takes On McCain, Repeatedly Praises Obama (May 20, 2008)

Chuck Hagel is quickly becoming Barack Obama's answer to Joe Lieberman.

The Republican Senator from Nebraska was a political thorn in McCain's side on Tuesday night, repeatedly lavishing praise on the presumptive Democratic candidate and levying major foreign policy criticisms at the GOP nominee and the Republican Party as a whole. At one point, Hagel even urged the Arizona Republican to elevate his campaign discourse to a higher, more honest level.

"We know from past campaigns that presidential candidates will say many things," Hagel said of some of McCain's recent rhetoric, namely his policy on talking to Iran. "But once they have the responsibility to govern the country and lead the world, that difference between what they said and what responsibilities they have to fulfill are vastly different. I'm very upset with John with some of the things he's been saying. And I can't get into the psychoanalysis of it. But I believe that John is smarter than some of the things he is saying. He is, he understands it more. John is a man who reads a lot, he's been around the world. I want him to get above that and maybe when he gets into the general election, and becomes the general election candidate he will have a higher-level discourse on these things."

Hagel, speaking to a small gathering at the residence of the Italian ambassador, took umbrage with several positions taken by the McCain campaign, including the Arizona Senator's criticism of Obama for pledging to engage with Iran. Engagement is not, and should not be confused for, capitulation, he argued.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Hagel looks like a very interesting choice.

 

[BobG]

How about Sarah Palin as a VP for McCain.

Pros:
- First woman President could get there by succeeding the oldest President in history.
- Her approval ratings as Governor of Alaska are in the 80's - she has the highest approval ratings of any politician in America right now.
- Has a reputation for cutting spending.
- Has a reputation for integrity. Filed ethics complaints on other Republicans serving on Alaska's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

Cons:
- All of the people she filed ethics complaints against were found not guilty (of course, there's a difference between criminal guilt and unethical behavior).
- Suing the US Department of the Interior for listing polar bears as endangered species (it could impact oil drilling in the state)
- The Matanuska Maid Dairy. Fired the state dairy board when they recommended closing the state owned dairy (it was losing money). The new board kept the dairy open until it lost even more money. The dairy finally closed and couldn't even sell off its assets.

Pro/Con (depending on views):
- Pro-life
- Opposes same sex marriage, but vetoed legislation that would have denied benefits to gay state employees.
- Pro gun rights.

Who cares trivia:
- Point guard on her state champ basketball team
- Miss congeniality in Miss Alaska beauty contest
- Eats mooseburgers and rides snowmobiles (of course, it's Alaska so riding snowmobiles is kind like saying she drives a car).

 

[Gokul43201]

How about Sarah Palin as a VP for McCain.

I doubt that she'd want to do it. She gave birth to a baby last month - her son had been diagnosed with Down Syndrome. It's already very difficult balancing governance with childcare.

 

[Gokul43201]

MSNBC has a Veepstakes game you can play here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24672458/

 

[Astronuc]

Interesting possibilities -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080528/pl_politico/10672;_ylt=Ak9KVWklsSBhwSLaY8XRpzxh24cA

. . .
But according to interviews with Republicans in their home states, Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano and Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill differ from Clinton by two important measures: They’ve managed to win elections without developing polarizing personas, and they’ve shied away from emphasizing gender in their campaigns.

The distinctions are important for Obama, the front-runner in the Democratic nominating contest, as his campaign begins the process of thinking about possible running mates. Selecting a woman might serve to mend the gender-based rifts that have surfaced as a result of Clinton’s historic candidacy — and Sebelius, Napolitano and McCaskill all possesses red-state political portfolios that would make them attractive vice presidential candidates.

Some common themes emerge when talking to Republicans who have battled them. All three are respected for their ability to win in difficult political environments for Democrats, and all are credited with having done so by successfully tacking to the center, reaching out to Republican voters by crafting an independent image. In part, that’s why Napolitano and Sebelius made Time magazine’s “5 Best Governors” list in 2005.

Napolitano draws praise from the other side of the aisle for managerial competence and canny political skills. Arizona Republicans describe the former federal prosecutor as extremely smart, noting that she has adeptly handled hot-button issues such as immigration.
. . . .

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The Marine combat veteran, best-selling author and former Republican is widely discussed as a potential Obama running mate, and it was clear tonight that the presumptive nominee is a big fan. "If you're in a fight, and we're going to be in a fight, you want Jim Webb to have your back," Obama told a cheering crowd, saluting his colleague as "an indispensable voice for change."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/05/obama_praises_webb_and_kaine.html

 

[Gokul43201]

No better way to lose the Clinton women than putting Webb on the ticket. Same for the anti-war demographic.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Why would he be more of a negative for the female vote than any other candidate besides Clinton? As for the anti-war vote, I don't see that either. Who are they going to vote for, McCain? Will they stay home and give it away? It doesn't seem likely unless there is something about Webb that makes him particularly offensive.

He would be a HUGE pull for moderates, like me.

 

[lisab]

Why would he be more of a negative for the female vote than any other candidate besides Clinton? As for the anti-war vote, I don't see that either. Who are they going to vote for, McCain? Will they stay home and give it away? It doesn't seem likely unless there is something about Webb that makes him particularly offensive.

He would be a HUGE pull for moderates, like me.

I think the argument that Webb would repel some women voters is based on an article that he wrote in 1979, "Women Can't Fight."

http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/mediapolitics/2182.html

In that article, he opines that women should not be allowed to enroll in the Military Academies. The article is quite long, and he makes several salient points. I think he may have moderated his opinion in recent years, but the article is still out there.

The uber-feminists who believe sexism alone sank Clinton's campaign are not going to like Webb much, IMO.

As far as Webb scaring away the anti-war vote, I see no evidence of that at all. In fact, as a Marine comander who lost 51 guys in Vietnam, I would expect him to be far less careless about sending our nation's youth into war than the chicken-hawks we now have in the White House.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

His son was fighting in Iraq, but he refused to show Bush any respect, and right to his face, because he is personally appalled by Bush's reckless abuse of power and rush to war. He is a smart, experienced, straight-talking vet, and a former Republican - a Reagan Republican. He would also be an effective bridge to the Pentagon for Obama.

I need to read his bit and see how damaging it would be to the female vote. I haven't heard him speak to this point.

{late edit: Wreckless to reckless }

 

[Ivan Seeking]

First in his class of 243 at the Marine Corps Officers' Basic School in Quantico, Virginia, Webb served with the Fifth Marine Regiment in Vietnam, where as a rifle platoon and company commander in the infamous An Hoa Basin west of Danang he was awarded the Navy Cross, the Silver Star Medal, two Bronze Star Medals, and two Purple Hearts. He later served as a platoon commander and as an instructor in tactics and weapons at Marine Corps Officer Candidates School, and then as a member of the Secretary of the Navy's immediate staff, before leaving the Marine Corps in 1972.

...In 1987, he became the first Naval Academy graduate in history to serve in the military and then become Secretary of the Navy.

http://webb.senate.gov/jim/

 

[Gokul43201]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/13/AR2006091302301.html

In the Washingtonian magazine article, "Women Can't Fight," the ex-Marine Webb wrote of the brutal conditions during the Vietnam War and argued against letting women into combat. Allen's campaign zeroed in on passages in which Webb described one of the academy's coed dorms as "a horny woman's dream" and said that he had never met a woman he "would trust to provide . . . combat leadership."

Linda G. Postenrieder, a 1982 Naval Academy graduate and a registered Democrat from California, said the article "infected the brigade with hate and divisive anger." Lisa Stolle, an academy graduate from Virginia Beach, said that for women, Webb's article "was like throwing gasoline" on a fire.

Webb has since apologized (kinda) for the (30-year-old) article, but feminist groups still hate him.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It seems fair to assume that he won't help Obama with the more radical feminist vote, but I'm not sure how much this would matter generally among women. From a logical pov, the VP has no formal role in selecting Supreme Court Justices, which would be the primary concern.

Would the threat of a McCain overshadow a VP? McCain represents a far greater threat to women's rights than does Webb.

 

[BobG]

Webb would do one thing. Virginia is actually a lot closer than I expected and Webb could make that a Democratic pickup in November. With 13 electoral votes, that would mean losing Ohio wouldn't be a disaster. Webb would be even more likely if it looks like Obama will win Ohio no matter what.

I think the most likely candidate is Strickland with either Sebelius, Richardson, or Webb as possible dark horses.

I think Huckabee is the most likely Republican VP by quite a bit. He keeps popping up on TV and always makes a good impression (aside from the one huge Obama joke gaffe). In the general, people won't remember his positions in the primaries. They'll just see his face in the general campaign. And remember, conservatives looking at his record instead of listening to his campaign thought he was too much of a moderate.

 

[chemisttree]

I think the most likely candidate is Strickland with either Sebelius, Richardson, or Webb as possible dark horses.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/10/strickland_takes_himself_out_o.html"


Looks like Strickland is out... Sebelius won't give him any foreign policy creds. I think it's Richardson. If Richardson can motivate the Hispanic vote in any way like Obama motivates the black vote, the combination is unbeatable.

 

[Gokul43201]

From a logical pov, the VP has no formal role in selecting Supreme Court Justices, which would be the primary concern.

Not exactly. The selection of SC Judges and the protection of Roe v Wade is a much bigger issue for young women than it is for post menopausal women who make up the core of the Hillary base. For the latter, it is the presence of a female in a position of power that is more important.

 

[turbo]

Looks like Strickland is out... Sebelius won't give him any foreign policy creds. I think it's Richardson. If Richardson can motivate the Hispanic vote in any way like Obama motivates the black vote, the combination is unbeatable.

I agree. Richardson is my go-to for VP. Experienced diplomat, former Secretary of Energy, and very well-liked by other governors, both Dems and GOP. If he can fire up Hispanics (especially in the SW and in FL) he will be a real asset.

 

[Gokul43201]

If he can fire up Hispanics...

If he can, he will make NM and CO safe, flip NV and make FL very close. Richardson carries a lot of potential electoral brownie points in addition to his qualifications. He won't, however, help win over the Clintonites!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Not exactly. The selection of SC Judges and the protection of Roe v Wade is a much bigger issue for young women than it is for post menopausal women who make up the core of the Hillary base. For the latter, it is the presence of a female in a position of power that is more important.

Eh, I would debate that point. Post menopausal women are the ones who fought the fight. Arguably, they could be throwing away a lifetime of activism by either voting for McCain, or by not voting for Obama.

I expect a lot of threats from the Hillary supporters until Obama names a VP. But come November, they are going to be looking at the reality of McCain.

 

[Gokul43201]

Eh, I would debate that point. Post menopausal women are the ones who fought the fight. Arguably, they could be throwing away a lifetime of activism by either voting for McCain, or by not voting for Obama.

It's arguable. That was just my opinion based on what I figured was most directly relevant to the people.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is unfortunate that Hillary's candidacy has dimmed the memory of the last eight years in the minds of many of her supporters. But again, the furor over this primary will fade, and I am counting on Obama and his ability to communicate the message effectively. Hillary and Chelsea will help in this effort as well.

Interestingly, many reports suggest that Bill is the one who is really bitter. One reporter even claimed that he appeared to have been crying just before a news conference the other day. He feels that Obama painted him as a racist and has damaged his standing in the Black community, and he is anrgy about how Hillary was treated by the media. Personally, it seems to me that he tried to pull some Clinton sleeze with his Jessie Jackson reference, and it blew-up in his face. And it may have been what cost Hillary the election! Tim Russert had a black man approach him who said to pass this message to Bill: Thanks for making us [the black community] 98% for Obama.

My theory is that Bill has rarely lost in life [he even survived an impeachment!], and he doesn't know how to deal with it. He thought they had this in the bag.

[edit: or to be consistent with the forum guidelines, I should say that my thought is... not my theory Didn't mean to sound quite so formal]

 

[russ_watters]

My theory is that Bill has rarely lost in life [he even survived an impeachment!], and he doesn't know how to deal with it. He thought they had this in the bag.

I agree. Bill was a liability almost as soon as the going got tough. If Hillary had coasted through like some people thought she would, I'm sure he would have been jolly 'ol St. Bill the entire time. And the shock/frustration of the tough race just made it worse.

 

[mheslep]

...My theory is that Bill has rarely lost in life [he even survived an impeachment!], and he doesn't know how to deal with it. He thought they had this in the bag.

[edit: or to be consistent with the forum guidelines, I should say that my thought is... not my theory Didn't mean to sound quite so formal]

Well he's lost a two races before this, fouled up more than once. I agree he doesn't know how to deal with it. Pop shrink take: he's a sociopath. It is always somebody else's fault - vast right wing, misogynists, etc.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Time will tell: Will he endorse Obama?

AFAIK, he has not done so yet.

 

[Gokul43201]

CNN's summary of the veep prospectives: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/26/veepstakes/index.html

 

[chemisttree]

He is a smart, experienced, straight-talking vet, and a former Republican - a Reagan Republican. He would also be an effective bridge to the Pentagon for Obama.

It is precisely for these reasons that Obama won't risk nominating him, IMO. Next to Webb, Obama would look small, inexperienced and out of touch. As a presidetial candidate, Webb would be the Democrat party's version of Reagan and would undoubtedly annihilate any Republican opponents. Too bad he didn't run this time.

 

[Gokul43201]

As a presidetial candidate, Webb would be the Democrat party's version of Reagan and would undoubtedly annihilate any Republican opponents. Too bad he didn't run this time.

But Webb has been in politics for less than a fifth of the time that Obama has. His political inexperience may be his biggest weakness.

 

[chemisttree]

But Webb has been in politics for less than a fifth of the time that Obama has. His political inexperience may be his biggest weakness.

Yes, and next to Webb, Obama would look inexperienced. I think that the former Secretary of The Navy counts as experience, as does his being a highly decorated Viet Nam combat veteran (the Navy Cross, Purple Heart). From 1977 to 1981 he worked as staff on the House Committee on Veterans Affairs and for three years served as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs.

The only problem is that he is a former Republican.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Yes, and next to Webb, Obama would look inexperienced. I think that the former Secretary of The Navy counts as experience, as does his being a highly decorated Viet Nam combat veteran (the Navy Cross, Purple Heart). From 1977 to 1981 he worked as staff on the House Committee on Veterans Affairs and for three years served as the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs.

The only problem is that he is a former Republican.

In my view that's not a negative: I'm a former Republican. And then there are all of those disenfranchised Reagan Democrats [many are blue-collar workers], who, being conservative, may tend to shy away from Obama.