Must the 1st derivative of phi be undetermined at V=infinity

In summary, the conversation discusses the relationship between discontinuous second derivatives and first derivatives. It is argued that a discontinuous second derivative does not necessarily imply a discontinuous first derivative, as a continuous function can have a discontinuous derivative. However, the other person points out that while this is true, a continuous function cannot have an infinite derivative. The conversation then explores an example of a function that is continuous but has an infinite derivative at a certain point.
  • #1
Happiness
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I think it is not true that a discontinuous ##\nabla^2\psi## implies a discontinuous ##\nabla\psi##, because a continuous function can have a discontinuous derivative, eg. ##y=|x|##.

Is it true that ##\nabla\psi## must always be undetermined at the boundary where ##V=\infty##?

Attached below is the whole paragraph that the sentence appears in:
Screen Shot 2015-12-07 at 10.27.02 pm.png
 
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  • #2
Happiness said:
I think it is not true that a discontinuous ##\nabla^2\phi## implies a discontinuous ##\nabla\phi##, because a continuous function can have a discontinuous derivative, eg. ##y=|x|##.
That's not what it says. It says that the discontinuity of ##\nabla^2\psi## is the same as that of the potential, hence is a discontinuity of the second kind (infinite jump). Therefore the first derivative will be discontinuous.
 
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  • #3
While it is true that a discontinuous second derivative does not imply a discontinuous first derivative, it is true that a continuous function can not have an infinite derivative.
 
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RUber said:
While it is true that a discontinuous second derivative does not imply a discontinuous first derivative, it is true that a continuous function can not have an infinite derivative.
Is there an implicit condition for this to be true?
Take ##f(x)=x^{1/3}##. This function is continuous, but the first derivative in x=0 is infinite.
 
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Thanks, Samy...I spoke too soon.
 

Related to Must the 1st derivative of phi be undetermined at V=infinity

What does it mean for the 1st derivative of phi to be undetermined at V=infinity?

When the 1st derivative of phi is undetermined at V=infinity, it means that the rate of change of phi with respect to V cannot be determined at the point where V approaches infinity. This can occur when there is a singularity or discontinuity at V=infinity.

Why is it important to consider the behavior of phi at V=infinity?

It is important to consider the behavior of phi at V=infinity because it can affect the overall behavior and properties of the system. In some cases, the behavior of phi at V=infinity can lead to unexpected or unstable results.

What factors can cause the 1st derivative of phi to be undetermined at V=infinity?

There are several factors that can cause the 1st derivative of phi to be undetermined at V=infinity. These can include mathematical singularities, physical discontinuities, or limitations in the model or equations used to describe the system.

How can we address the issue of the 1st derivative of phi being undetermined at V=infinity?

There are various approaches that can be used to address the issue of the 1st derivative of phi being undetermined at V=infinity. This can include refining the model or equations, introducing boundary conditions, or using different mathematical techniques to handle singularities or discontinuities.

Are there cases where the 1st derivative of phi is not undetermined at V=infinity?

Yes, there are cases where the 1st derivative of phi is not undetermined at V=infinity. This can occur when the system is well-behaved and there are no singularities or discontinuities at V=infinity. In these cases, the 1st derivative of phi can be determined and used to accurately describe the behavior of the system.

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