ID manipulation to troll science forums

[junglebeast]

This is the undegrad course. You have three things to do: (1) take the final exam (worth 40% of your grade); (2) write a 3,000-word essay on the theological significance of intelligent design (worth 40% of your grade); (3) provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 2,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade).

http://www.designinference.com/teaching/teaching.htm

If you disagree with these policies feel free to contact the "professors":

TA: jreed@ses.edu
Instructor: wdembski@swbts.edu

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

(3) provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 2,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade).

junglebeast didn't say that, Dembski did. This should pose no problem for PF. Such posts tend to get deleted, particularly if they are confrontational. This makes them useless for the purpose to which they are to be put, both Dembski's purpose and that of his students.

 

[cristo]

'Intelligently Design' this...
http://wuggawoo.com/images/aug-dec/avatars/BanButton.gif

 

[daniel_i_l]

For further discussion and amusement:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/10/1237245/College-Credits-For-Trolling-the-Web

The word "hostile" says everything for me. It makes it seem as if they're waging an idealogical war, not searching for truth.

 

[chroot]

Well, I don't know where you're from, daniel_i_l, but here in the US, the evangelical movement has been using the term 'culture war' more and more vehemently in the past few years. There are many, many people in the US who feel that it is their duty to 'fight the good fight' and destroy secularism entirely.

- Warren

 

[Pinu7]

I actually have no problems with this since

1. It is a theological seminary, and a baptist one at that.( If there is one thing about Baptists, they sure are aggressively evangelical). Defending your faith for a grade is understandable.

2. Hopefully, online intelligent communities discussing evolution should be able to retaliate arguments from the popular ID which they attack("hostile"). If any community can attack a popular theory and not defend themselves if some theological student explains their convictions, then they deserve to be trolled.

Disclaimer: I do not believe in ID.

 

[siddharth]

'Undergrad course'? So is the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary an accredited university, which hands out degrees? I pity the students who're studying there.

 

[mgb_phys]

Defending your faith for a grade is understandable.

Pah, try catholic school - mid term consisted of being thrown into a cage of lions.
If you had done well - god would protect you.

 

[Kurdt]

'Undergrad course'? So is the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary an accredited university, which hands out degrees? I pity the students who're studying there.

Not many jobs requiring a degree in defending ID on internet forums.

 

[junglebeast]

'Undergrad course'? So is the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary an accredited university, which hands out degrees? I pity the students who're studying there.

This university, the "Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary," is accredited by the "Southern Association of Colleges and Schools" (which is recognized by the United States Department of Education), and also the "Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada" to award bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees.

I didn't know that schools could get accredited for preaching religious beliefs...that seems to fly in the face of the whole point of accreditation.

 

[mgb_phys]

that seems to fly in the face of the whole point of accreditation.

Lets hope they don't graduate many structural engineers.

 

[Math Is Hard]

'Undergrad course'? So is the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary an accredited university, which hands out degrees? I pity the students who're studying there.

They offer a BA in Humanities or in Music for the undergrads. I imagine the majority of students are going into careers in the ministry.

 

[Pupil]

Lets hope they don't graduate many structural engineers.

I'm sure they have that covered, as well; (4) write a 3,000 word essay on how God will hold the bridge up.

 

[ideasrule]

I actually have no problems with this since

1. It is a theological seminary, and a baptist one at that.( If there is one thing about Baptists, they sure are aggressively evangelical). Defending your faith for a grade is understandable.

Every single essay and opinion question I've ever answered in school allowed me to choose which side I wanted to defend. This included one that asked whether having a romantic relationship with a teacher is appropriate. Forcing students to choose a side is not education; it's brainwashing, and religion is better than anybody else at it.

 

[Sorry!]

Haven't reads ne of the posts yet just quickly went through the article... what the HELL kind of university IS this? Never in my life did I know that you could get a DOCTORATE for preaching. No wonder when you go to church they have a new 'well studied' (since they are a dr. of course) PhD to tell you how wrong all the other religions are and how some day soon they will all join each other in a bad way. (Seriously at a church I went to they said this about muslims MOSTLY)

This stuff is not, in my opinion, education... merely another form of indoctrination.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Every single essay and opinion question I've ever answered in school allowed me to choose which side I wanted to defend. This included one that asked whether having a romantic relationship with a teacher is appropriate. Forcing students to choose a side is not education; it's brainwashing, and religion is better than anybody else at it.

I think these students have pretty much decided "which side they want to defend" before entering the Theological Seminary.

 

[junglebeast]

What would be really funny is a student who was forced to go to this school by his parents, then refused to do this assignment based on moral grounds, was failed because of it, and then sued the school

 

[cristo]

You can get doctorates in anything nowadays.

 

[Moonbear]

Never in my life did I know that you could get a DOCTORATE for preaching.

Seriously? You've never heard of a seminary before? Or a doctorate in theology? How did you think preachers got to be preachers? Believe it or not, they get an education in religion, things like reading classic languages, biblical studies, all the other ancient texts that go into the building of religions, probably some psychology since they do a lot of counseling, etc.

 

[Proton Soup]

even Harvard has a divinity school

 

[Sorry!]

Seriously? You've never heard of a seminary before? Or a doctorate in theology? How did you think preachers got to be preachers? Believe it or not, they get an education in religion, things like reading classic languages, biblical studies, all the other ancient texts that go into the building of religions, probably some psychology since they do a lot of counseling, etc.

A doctorate of theology, at least as far as I know, is just a study in MULTIPLE religions and is open for questions etc. ID is quite religion specific.

Reading over the website I got the feeling this was more a school to obtain a doctorate in Christianity. As well I'm pretty sure you don't have to study in university to become a priest you study through the church, you don't obtain a PhD for it... You become a deacon in your final few years... as far as I knew.

 

[vociferous]

This university, the "Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary," is accredited by the "Southern Association of Colleges and Schools" (which is recognized by the United States Department of Education), and also the "Association of Theological Schools in the United States and Canada" to award bachelor's, master's, and doctoral degrees.

I didn't know that schools could get accredited for preaching religious beliefs...that seems to fly in the face of the whole point of accreditation.

My understanding is that the US department of Education recognizes any national accrediting agency that can show it is competent in the field it is accrediting, so being accredited by a holistic health accreditation agency, or a theological accrediting agency means very little, outside the standard and reputation of that individual agency (obviously, some national accrediting agencies are very respectable).

Regional accreditation is what matters. The US Department of Education only recognizes one regional accrediting agency in each geographical area. For instance, in California it is WASC. To be accredited by them, you must meet their standards, which are reasonably high. For instance, WASC accreditation means that a calculus course taught at San Francisco Community College and USC meet roughly the same standard, cover the same material, et cetera. It means that a physics or computer science degree MS from San Jose State, UC Berkeley, and Stanford all cover (generally) the same material and require similar demonstrated competence of the material.

So, if a university does not require any science courses at all for a BA or BS, or has those courses, but they are completely ludicrous, then it is probably not going to be regionally accredited.

(take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_accreditation)

 

[cristo]

Seriously? You've never heard of a seminary before? Or a doctorate in theology?

For the record, I was being facetious.

even Harvard has a divinity school

Of course! A Doctor of Divinity (DD) is the highest doctorate there is (at least over here, where the higher doctorate exists) ranking above LL.D, D.Litt, D.Sc, MD etc..

 

[junglebeast]

My understanding is that the US department of Education recognizes any national accrediting agency that can show it is competent in the field it is accrediting,

I understand that, but the field here is Theology. Perhaps my understanding of theology is mistaken, but I thought it was the study of religions...not the preaching of a religion. There is a big difference, because studying a religion is simply an account of history. Am I mistaken?

 

[Danger]

what the HELL kind of university IS this? Never in my life did I know that you could get a DOCTORATE for preaching.

I'm not sure about that part. My father was a preacher (Unitarian/Universalist). Not only was he a varsity champion wrestler and basketball player, he was a pitcher and catcher for the Almont Tigers baseball team which was composed entirely of him and his eight brothers. He came out of McGill University in 1923 with a Masters degree in 'Religious Studies'. Because of his education, he was an agnostic. I firmly believe that if he had been exposed to physics, he would have been an Atheist like me.
What really blew me away was that I found one of his artifacts about 10 years ago, buried in a desk. It was a little spiral notebook (pocket-size), except that it was bound with wool thread rather than plastic or metal. It was from a cellular biology course that he took in conjunction with his 'preacher' course, and has stuff in it that I never even heard of before! He had hand-drawn paramecia, neurons, you name it.
McGill is a far cry from a 'bible college' though.

 

[protonchain]

More proof that

Intelligent Design... isn't

 

[ideasrule]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_accreditation#Religious-exempt_degrees

Basically, in 21 U.S. states, religious schools can grant degrees without being accredited. It seems that religion is exempted from everything. Sexism and racism are bad...unless God did it. Genocide is inexcusable...unless God committed it and wrote it in the Bible. Nobody would admit to not using logic and reason...except when talking about religion, in which case "faith" would suffice. Collective punishment is stupid and a relic of our brutal past...unless we're talking about Jesus Christ, in which case it's perfectly O.K.

If PF does get trolled by that university, are we going to ban & keep silent, or demolish every argument they make first?

 

[mgb_phys]

probably some psychology since they do a lot of counseling,
etc.

Although it seems Bob Jones U (http://www.bju.edu/) might have some work to do on it's conflict resolution program.

http://www.irelandlogue.com/files/2006/09/ianpaisley.jpg

 

[Proton Soup]

fwiw, there is nothing in the original post suggesting that students go "trolling". it simply says to make posts defending their point of view.

 

[Sorry!]

I'm not sure about that part. My father was a preacher (Unitarian/Universalist). Not only was he a varsity champion wrestler and basketball player, he was a pitcher and catcher for the Almont Tigers baseball team which was composed entirely of him and his eight brothers. He came out of McGill University in 1923 with a Masters degree in 'Religious Studies'. Because of his education, he was an agnostic. I firmly believe that if he had been exposed to physics, he would have been an Atheist like me.
What really blew me away was that I found one of his artifacts about 10 years ago, buried in a desk. It was a little spiral notebook (pocket-size), except that it was bound with wool thread rather than plastic or metal. It was from a cellular biology course that he took in conjunction with his 'preacher' course, and has stuff in it that I never even heard of before! He had hand-drawn paramecia, neurons, you name it.
McGill is a far cry from a 'bible college' though.

I'm pretty sure this university isn't McGill... That's what I was talking about the actual school and HOW it's course are laid out (you can read them on that link..)

I know a few people who studied religion in university and now find it difficult to automatically go into their religous scripture with beliefs they had prior to attending university.

 

[Danger]

I'm pretty sure this university isn't McGill...

It definitely isn't. McGill is in Montreal, and is one of the most prestigious universities in Canada. I merely raised that topic to indicate that you can get a respectable degree in theology if you go to the right place. My apologies for not being more clear.

 

[Sorry!]

It definitely isn't. McGill is in Montreal, and is one of the most prestigious universities in Canada. I merely raised that topic to indicate that you can get a respectable degree in theology if you go to the right place. My apologies for not being more clear.

Yep, that is definitely understood.

And I know McGill I'm from Toronto :P. Was actually thinking about attending McGill... not for the prestigious university experience but for the night life of montreal :D

 

[Danger]

not for the prestigious university experience but for the night life of montreal :D

I hear you. One of the stand-up comics at the Montreal Comedy Festival attempted a comparison between Hogtown and Montreal. He said to think of two brothers. One is a drunken womaniser, and the other is an accountant.

 

[Focus]

I understand that, but the field here is Theology. Perhaps my understanding of theology is mistaken, but I thought it was the study of religions...not the preaching of a religion. There is a big difference, because studying a religion is simply an account of history. Am I mistaken?

No you aren't. Though I personally do not believe in a religion, I do find the study of religion interesting. Religion is a large part of our culture and has been so for many years. It is also interesting to see what people of that time were concerned with.

Also I would have thought that Theology contained the religious bits of philosophy. I may be wrong in this.

 

[Pinu7]

Pah, try catholic school - mid term consisted of being thrown into a cage of lions.
If you had done well - god would protect you.

I am afraid that may make you a profit, not a biblical scholar.

Every single essay and opinion question I've ever answered in school allowed me to choose which side I wanted to defend. This included one that asked whether having a romantic relationship with a teacher is appropriate. Forcing students to choose a side is not education; it's brainwashing, and religion is better than anybody else at it.

It is a BAPTIST theological seminary. In order to study, you must adapt baptist doctrine(which I guess is ID?)