[Enders Game] Split molecules and cause a chain reaction

[Brett Royale]

during my reading of ender's game, there was a device that could split molecules and cause a chain reaction of destruction. this seems possible yet impossible to me. can such a weapon be created and if so what causes the reaction to be so destructive.

 

[Borg]

Are you sure that it was molecules? Splitting molecules would be a chemical reaction that can only generate a certain amount of energy. However, nuclear fission generates much more energy.

 

[Brett Royale]

ya at least that's what it said but the only thing that makes me think other wise it when the American gov. made the atom bomb it consisted of 2 key molecules to keep it stable but also go off at the impact time. in the book it talks about how instead of exploding it just rip's all molecules apart killing all that lives as species.

 

[Khashishi]

It's just fiction, and it is pretty far-fetched. It takes energy to split molecules apart; so it can't chain react.

 

[DrClaude]

It takes energy to split molecules apart; so it can't chain react.

Actually it can chain react. It's called fire

 

[Khashishi]

Actually it can chain react. It's called fire

That's an exothermic reaction though. Various compounds are broken apart and then combined with oxygen. It takes energy to break the compounds apart, but reacting with oxygen gives off more energy. You can't universally break apart compounds without adding energy.

 

[Hornbein]

That's an exothermic reaction though. Various compounds are broken apart and then combined with oxygen. It takes energy to break the compounds apart, but reacting with oxygen gives off more energy. You can't universally break apart compounds without adding energy.

Any explosive gives off energy from the splitting of molecules.

But the Ender's thing that splits ordinary molecules, that's SF.

 

[Khashishi]

No, explosives give off energy by building new molecules (usually with oxygen). The breaking of molecules takes energy.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

There's no real science behind the weapon in Ender's Game. IIRC it works by inducing a nuclear chain reaction in non-fissionable material with the effect propagating along with the chain reaction. Nothing known can do that.

 

[DrStupid]

IIRC it works by inducing a nuclear chain reaction in non-fissionable material with the effect propagating along with the chain reaction. Nothing known can do that.

Thermonuclear weapons work that way.

 

[Brett Royale]

when i first made this post there was a missing thing that i didn't count in this, in the book it says that its doesn't rip molecules but instead tears all combined atoms and makes them singular causing own found energy and giving birth to the chain reaction. rephrasing is it possible to take combined atoms and spit them out mono by mono

 

[Hornbein]

when i first made this post there was a missing thing that i didn't count in this, in the book it says that its doesn't rip molecules but instead tears all combined atoms and makes them singular causing own found energy and giving birth to the chain reaction. rephrasing is it possible to take combined atoms and spit them out mono by mono

Like we've been telling you, it takes energy to split apart molecules. As far as anyone knows, there is no way around that.

 

[Dr Wu]

This is probably going off-thread here, but having just finished reading Ender's Game, which I very much enjoyed, nonetheless, I do share the criticisms aired elsewhere about the tender age of its protagonist, and those of his companions. Yes, I did follow the author's heroically argued defence of it in the novel's introduction. Still, having once been a child myself (so I distantly recall) I remain unconvinced. It wasn't so much the language itself I found difficult to swallow; rather it was the adult concepts the language expressed that jarred. It got better as the book progressed and Ender grew older. Of course, he and his two siblings are meant to be viewed as extremely bright young children, child prodigies even. Fair enough, but I'm afraid it didn't quite come off the page for me. I've not seen the film version of the book, so I would be interested in knowing how the director dealt with the age issue, assuming, of course, he or she saw it as an "issue" in the first place. On the plus side - and it's a mega-big plus - I consider the novel's ending wonderful and surprising. A real masterstroke, in my opinion.

 

[Brett Royale]

not sure i agree with you. with an open mind, the language and concepts were outstandingly perfect and gave an idea of real reality of what would happen to kids if this is what the world did. but not only did he hit that vital part, he showed what it's like in a soldier's mind and the sense of how they act in battle. telling them selves that they will not break and will survive. if you read the next books then you'll get more of them feel in the story. as for the movie, it was a bit... pale per say. they didn't exactly add the vital points made in the story.

 

[PAllen]

No, explosives give off energy by building new molecules (usually with oxygen). The breaking of molecules takes energy.

Not for unstable molecules. Xenon trioxide may explode undisturbed, at room temperature, in a vacuum. There are more prosaic examples, but I have been warned not to mention 'achievable explosives' on these forums. I feel safe that xenon trioxide is unachievable to the non-professional.

 

[DrStupid]

Not for unstable molecules. Xenon trioxide may explode undisturbed, at room temperature, in a vacuum.

With [itex]\Delta _f H_{XeO_3 } {\rm = 402 kJ} \cdot {\rm mol}^{{\rm - 1}}[/itex] and [itex]\Delta _f H_O {\rm = 249 kJ} \cdot {\rm mol}^{{\rm - 1}}[/itex] the reaction

[itex]XeO_3 \to Xe + 3O[/itex]

would be endothermic. I'm not aware of exothermic reactions without formation of new bonds. Thus I would agree with Khashishi.

 

[PAllen]

With [itex]\Delta _f H_{XeO_3 } {\rm = 402 kJ} \cdot {\rm mol}^{{\rm - 1}}[/itex] and [itex]\Delta _f H_O {\rm = 249 kJ} \cdot {\rm mol}^{{\rm - 1}}[/itex] the reaction

[itex]XeO_3 \to Xe + 3O[/itex]

would be endothermic. I'm not aware of exothermic reactions without formation of new bonds. Thus I would agree with Khashishi.

The reaction is:

2 XeO3 → 2 Xe + 3 O2

which changes your oxygen number radically (eliminates it altogether, since is zero for diatomic oxygen, also zero for xenon) and is well known to be exothermic, and readily occur spontaneously around room temperature. You could argue that new bonds are formed, i.e. the splitting is still endothermic, but the association of the oxygen is then exothermic by a much larger amount. However, functionally, you have pure compound suddenly exploding on its own. There are many other such compounds. I would agree that if you break the reaction into smallest steps, you start endothermic, but the overall reaction is exothermic. However, I am not convinced that this reaction proceeds in those steps. I would guess that as two xenon trioxide molecules get close via kinetic vibration, reaction occurs essentially in one step - but I can't say I know that for sure.

 

[DrStupid]

You could argue that new bonds are formed, i.e. the splitting is still endothermic, but the association of the oxygen is then exothermic by a much larger amount.

And that's why the reaction gives off energy by building new molecules. The breaking of the original molecule takes energy. The number of steps doesn't matter.

 

[PAllen]

And that's why the reaction gives off energy by building new molecules. The breaking of the original molecule takes energy. The number of steps doesn't matter.

Would you still argue that for xenon tetroxide:

XeO4 → Xe + 2 O2 ?

 

[DrStupid]

Would you still argue that for xenon tetroxide:

XeO4 → Xe + 2 O2 ?

Yes. With [itex]\Delta _f H_{XeO_4 } {\rm = 643 kJ} \cdot {\rm mol}^{{\rm - 1}}[/itex] the reaction

[itex]XeO_4 \to Xe + 4O[/itex]

would be endothermic. The energy of the exothermic decomposition results from the formation of O₂.

 

[PAllen]

Yes. With [itex]\Delta _f H_{XeO_4 } {\rm = 643 kJ} \cdot {\rm mol}^{{\rm - 1}}[/itex] the reaction

[itex]XeO_4 \to Xe + 4O[/itex]

would be endothermic. The energy of the exothermic decomposition results from the formation of O₂.

Except that the decomposition never produces monatomic oxygen, so your proposed endothermic reaction never occurs.

 

[DrStupid]

your proposed endothermic reaction never occurs.

And Earth is not a disc. Let's stop talking about obvious facts and return to the problem: Did you understand that the decomposition is exothermic because new molecules are formed?

 

[PWiz]

I would guess that as two xenon trioxide molecules get close via kinetic vibration, reaction occurs essentially in one step - but I can't say I know that for sure.

Is the order of the reaction known? If the order is fractional, the reaction is likely to include free radicals. The order can also be used to point to the number of molecules involved in the rate determining step of the decomposition, and this, along with the structural information of the reactant and products, can be used to predict the reaction mechanism.

 

[AlgoJerViA]

The[/PLAIN] Little Doctor has two beams, which when fired meet together to create a field in which electrons could not be shared. The field spreads out in a sphere, but becomes weaker the longer it disperses. If the field comes into contact with more molecules, it gets stronger and the dispersal process starts over. After the field dies down, the only thing remaining is a clump of iron molecules.

'

There are some hints to what he tries to describe in the book, the Molecular Disruption Device are related to the Strong Force Field Dynamics that are used in interstellar travel. So in the book they have some way to manipulate the strong force, it looks like this is done in such a way that nuclear fission and fusion occurs extremely easy but this makes very unlikely that a clump of iron can be left since it would be blown into dust at ones. So this has some foundation in reality since if there was any way of manipulating the strong nuclear force and change the rate of nuclear fission and fusion and this would burn itself into iron fast. But way the field would propagate is harder to understand and especially where all the energy goes. The planet should explode into something that might be comparable to a super nova. However the energy might go into propagating the field...