Work-Energy Principle: Pulley System

In summary, the conversation discusses the calculation of downward speed of mass m in relation to its distance from the ground, given the masses M and m and no friction. The solution is derived using both Newton's laws and the Work-Energy principle, with the final answer being the same for both approaches. There is also a discussion about the incorrectness of the answer derived using the force approach, which is later clarified.
  • #1
matineesuxxx
77
6

Homework Statement


(see attatchment)

We know masses M and m, and I am trying to describe the downward speed of m in terms of the hight from the ground. There is no friction

Homework Equations



[itex] \sum \text{F} = ma [/itex]
[itex] W_{\text{total}} = \Delta K = \int \text{F} \cdot d\text{s} [/itex]

The Attempt at a Solution



I first need to note that the distance moved by [itex] M [/itex] is half of that moved by [itex] m[/itex] and thus the acceleration of [itex] M [/itex] is half that of [itex] m [/itex], or [itex] a_M = a_m/2 [/itex].

I first solved the problem using only Newtons laws, so from the FBD I solved for the acceleration of [itex] m [/itex]:

$$a_m = v\frac{dv}{dh} = \frac{mg}{M/4 + m} \implies v = \sqrt{\frac{2mgh}{M/4 + m}}$$

Now if I use the Work-Energy principle, I get that [itex] W_{\text{total}} = W_{\text{tension}_x} + W_{\text{tension}_y} + W_g [/itex].

This is where I think I am not understanding something:

Work done by tension on [itex]M[/itex] is equal to the work done by tension on [itex] m [/itex] even though force of tension on [itex] M [/itex] is twice that of the force of tension on [itex] m [/itex] because it travels half the distance, and since tension acting on [itex] m [/itex] is acting opposite the direction of motion, it is negative, so [itex] W_{\text{tension}_x} = -W_{\text{tension}_y} [/itex], so

$$W_{\text{total}} = W_g = mgh = \frac{1}{2}(m + M)v^2 = \Delta K $$
so

[itex] v = \sqrt{\frac{2mgh}{m+M}}[/itex]

I am not sure what I am missing that gives me [itex]m+M[/itex] instead of [itex] m + M/4 [/itex] in the denominator. I would appreciate some help!

Thanks

[EDIT] The answer in the back of the book is the same as the answer I got using Newtons laws
 

Attachments

  • prob.jpg
    prob.jpg
    7.2 KB · Views: 597
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
matineesuxxx said:
$$W_{\text{total}} = W_g = mgh = \frac{1}{2}(m + M)v^2 = \Delta K $$

The masses are moving with different speeds .
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Tanya Sharma said:
The masses are moving with different speeds .

Hah, wow. Total brain fart there. Thank you very much!
 
  • #4
Even the answer you are getting by force approach is incorrect .
 
  • #5
Tanya Sharma said:
Even the answer you are getting by force approach is incorrect .

How is that? It's the same as in the book as well
 
  • #6
Sorry ... its correct .
 
  • #7
Thanks for your help.
 
  • #8
You are welcome :)
 

Related to Work-Energy Principle: Pulley System

1. What is the Work-Energy Principle?

The Work-Energy Principle states that the work done on an object is equal to the change in its kinetic energy. In other words, the work done on an object will result in a change in its speed or direction.

2. How does the Work-Energy Principle apply to a pulley system?

In a pulley system, the Work-Energy Principle can be used to determine the amount of work done on the object being lifted or lowered. This is because the force required to lift the object is equal to the weight of the object, and this force is multiplied by the distance the object is lifted or lowered.

3. What are the factors that affect the work done in a pulley system?

The work done in a pulley system is affected by the weight of the object being lifted or lowered, the distance the object is moved, and the efficiency of the pulley system. The efficiency of a pulley system is affected by factors such as friction and the angle at which the rope is pulled.

4. How can the Work-Energy Principle be used to make a pulley system more efficient?

To make a pulley system more efficient, the amount of work done should be minimized while the effect of the force is maximized. This can be achieved by using a pulley system with a greater mechanical advantage, reducing friction in the system, and using a rope with a smaller angle of pull.

5. Are there any limitations to the Work-Energy Principle in a pulley system?

The Work-Energy Principle assumes that there is no energy lost due to factors such as friction or air resistance. In reality, there will always be some energy lost in a pulley system, so the calculated work done may not be completely accurate. Additionally, the Work-Energy Principle does not account for the mass of the pulley itself, which may also affect the efficiency of the system.

Similar threads

  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
194
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
8
Views
288
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
222
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
2
Replies
40
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
10
Views
1K
Back
Top