- #1
gary350
- 258
- 53
Why does 32 F ice have more energy that 32 F water?
As you can tell by the reply by V50, you really should try to make a better opening post. Where have you read this? Post links please whenever asking technical questions. And if you post those links, will the answer be self-evident?gary350 said:Why does 32 F ice have more energy that 32 F water?
Wrong way around. The water has more energy. You have to add energy to melt the ice.gary350 said:Why does 32 F ice have more energy that 32 F water?
Yes, it is because the freezer is extracting heat (energy) from the water / ice. The water takes a long time to freeze, because there is a lot of heat to extract while it freezes (called latent heat). So the ice has less energy than liquid water.gary350 said:I am making blackberry wine fermentation generates heat. I have water frozen in 2 liter soft drink bottles. When wine gets up to 72 deg F it is too hot it needs to be 68 deg all the time but best I can do is put bottles of ice in the wine to cool it down. A bottle of ice will cool the wine down to about 61 degrees. I had 5 bottles of ice frozen over a period of 8 days all the ice was used up in 6 days and the freezer is not able to freeze ice bottles fast enough so I have been using bottles that are only 5% or 10% frozen to cool wine. A bottle that is not completely frozen only cools wine down to about 68 deg F. It takes about 4 hours for a solid piece of ice to completely melt lowering wine temperature about 6 deg colder than 32 deg water bottles.
Michael Price said:Yes, it is because the freezer is extracting heat (energy) from the water / ice. The water takes a long time to freeze, because there is a lot of heat to extract while it freezes (called latent heat). So the ice has less energy than liquid water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
Yes, you remember correctly. But the energy required to freeze the water does not end up in the ice. The work (a form of energy) required to extract the energy from the water gets chucked out the back of the freezer as heat.gary350 said:You must be thinking heat is energy and cold is absence of energy.
I am thinking ice has the ability to remove more heat than 32 deg water.
I remember college physics teacher explaining, it takes more energy to make ice than cold water the same temperature. That was 50 years ago. I don't remember WHY it takes more energy to make ice?
At first glance, this may seem counterintuitive since ice is typically associated with colder temperatures. However, the key factor here is the state of matter. Ice is a solid, while water is a liquid. Solids have a lower energy state than liquids, meaning that the molecules in ice are more tightly packed and have less kinetic energy compared to those in liquid water.
The energy of molecules is directly related to their motion and arrangement. In ice, the molecules are held in a rigid, lattice-like structure, resulting in less movement and lower energy. In liquid water, the molecules are more free to move and slide past each other, resulting in a higher energy state.
While the difference in energy between ice and water at 32 F may seem small, it is actually quite significant in terms of the molecules' behavior. This energy difference is what allows ice to melt and turn into liquid water when heated, and for liquid water to freeze and turn into solid ice when cooled.
The energy difference between ice and water is responsible for their different physical properties. For example, ice is less dense than water because the molecules are more spread out due to their lower energy state. This is why ice floats on top of liquid water. Additionally, the lower energy of ice also makes it more brittle and less malleable compared to liquid water.
The energy difference between ice and water at 32 F is a constant and cannot change at this specific temperature. However, as the temperature changes, the energy of the molecules will also change, causing a shift in the state of matter. For example, when heated above 32 F, ice will melt into liquid water and its energy will increase, while liquid water will freeze into ice when cooled below 32 F and its energy will decrease.