Where Did I Go Wrong in My Analysis of Orbital Motion?

In summary, the conversation discusses the conservation of angular momentum for orbital motion with a potential function U(r). The system has a constant total energy and the potential is only dependent on the radius. However, this cannot always be true and the conversation explores this discrepancy. The angular momentum is only equal to mvr for special cases, and taking the derivative of the Lagrangian shows the general case. The conversation also discusses the equations for finding the derivative of the Lagrangian and their implications. The issue with the initial expression is that it only considers velocity in the theta direction and not in the r direction.
  • #1
Hertz
180
8
Hi, I stumbled upon this while working on a problem on my physics homework. I still want to solve the problem myself if possible though so I won't post it here, instead, I'll post what is confusing me.

Consider orbital motion with potential U(r), where U(r) is any arbitrary function of r.
I was able to show that the quantity [itex]L=mvr[/itex] is conserved and I will call it L. Thus:
[itex]v=\frac{L}{mr}[/itex]

We know that the system has a total energy that is constant:
[itex]E=T+U[/itex]
[itex]E=\frac{mv^2}{2}+U(r)[/itex]
[itex]U(r)=E-\frac{mv^2}{2}[/itex]
[itex]U(r)=E-\frac{m}{2} \frac{L^2}{(mr)^2}[/itex]

This shows that potential is only dependent on radius. Everything else is a constant. Furthermore, it shows that potential as a function of radius is ALWAYS equal to the same thing... This simply cannot be true... Where am I going wrong?

edit-
The problem that I'm working on gives me a function [itex]r(\theta)[/itex] and asks "What central force is responsible for this motion".

Using the method above... I'm finding that F(r) is the same thing no matter what [itex]r(\theta)[/itex] is... (By taking the negative derivative of U(r) with respect to r.)
 
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  • #2
The angular momentum is L=mvr only for special cases. Write it for the general case and you will get a more general result.
 
  • #3
nasu said:
The angular momentum is L=mvr only for special cases. Write it for the general case and you will get a more general result.

Hmm, well this is why I thought it was for general U, maybe you can help me see what I did wrong:

[itex]L_{Lagrangian}=\frac{1}{2}mv^2-U(r)[/itex]

In polar, [itex]v^2=\dot{r}^2+r^2\dot{\theta}^2[/itex]

[itex]L=\frac{1}{2}m(\dot{r}^2+r^2\dot{\theta}^2)-U(r)[/itex]

And then in my text I found these equations:

[itex]\frac{\partial L}{\dot{q}_i}=p_i[/itex]

[itex]\frac{\partial L}{q_i}=\dot{p}_i[/itex]

(Not quite sure why they're true yet)

which implies:
[itex]\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\dot{q}_i})=\frac{\partial L}{q_i}[/itex]

Applied to Lagrangian above:
[itex]\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\dot{\theta}})=\frac{\partial L}{\theta}[/itex]
[itex]\frac{d}{dt}(mr^2\dot{\theta})=0[/itex]
[itex]mr^2\dot{\theta}=const=mr(r\dot{\theta})=mvr=l[/itex]

-edit
I do see the problem now though! In this expression, this is only velocity in the theta direction. It doesn't account for velocity in the r direction, so I can't use it in the OP. Thanks :)
 
Last edited:

Related to Where Did I Go Wrong in My Analysis of Orbital Motion?

What is orbital motion confusion?

Orbital motion confusion refers to the confusion or misunderstanding surrounding the physical laws and principles that govern the motion of objects in orbit around other objects, such as planets orbiting around the sun.

What causes orbital motion confusion?

Orbital motion confusion is often caused by a lack of understanding of Newton's laws of motion and gravitation, as well as misconceptions about the nature of orbits and the forces acting on orbiting objects.

How does orbital motion differ from linear motion?

Orbital motion is different from linear motion in that it occurs along a curved path, whereas linear motion occurs along a straight line. Additionally, orbital motion is affected by the gravitational pull of the central object, while linear motion is not.

Why is understanding orbital motion important?

Understanding orbital motion is important for a variety of reasons, including accurately predicting the motion of artificial satellites and space probes, understanding the behavior of planets and other celestial bodies, and designing successful space missions.

How can one better understand orbital motion?

One can better understand orbital motion by studying the principles of mechanics and gravitation, familiarizing oneself with the laws and equations that govern orbital motion, and observing and analyzing real-world examples of orbital motion, such as the orbits of planets and satellites.

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