Religious Freedom vs. State Laws: The Case of a Veiled Driver's License Photo

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In summary, a woman is suing the state of Florida because they said she needed to get a new photo ID that showed her face uncovered. She is claiming that her religious freedom is being infringed upon.
  • #1
Dissident Dan
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"Religious Freedom" Insanity

So I was reading the USA Today today (Wed, May 28, 2003). I read that that a woman who is an islamic convert received in Feb 2001 a Florida driver's license that had a photo of her face covered in a veil. She got a letter from the state 9 months later warning that it would revoke her license unless she got a new photo of her uncovered face.

So no the ACLU is defending her in a court case.

I think that this is lunacy. We can't allow anyone to do whatever they want because their religion says so. There are very secular reasons for laws such as not covering your face on your photo ID. If your religion contrasts with those laws, then you must comply with them anyway. You can still be a following of whatever religion you want, but the law should reign above it.

Think about it. Suppose I make up my own religion in which I must kill all newborn males. Oops, I guess those murder laws don't apply to me...
 
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  • #2
Yes I remember hearing about this a couple of months ago. I agree completely with what you say. If people want to live in a country that doesn't uphold that person's customs and traditions, then they have to live by the rules, simple as that really.
 
  • #3
There is always room for compromise...she is going to have to give a little if she wants to drive.
 
  • #4
what does Islam say about women driving? and would a veil obstruct her vision at all?

if she wants to drive, she needs to follow all the rules the rest of us need to follow.
 
  • #5
Originally posted by jb
what does Islam say about women driving? and would a veil obstruct her vision at all?
I don't think it was an issue, because when the Koran was written, cars were very slow.
 
  • #6
So touchy..

I think the thing here is :

A drivers Liscence is not a right.

It is an earned priveledge.

If you cannot earn it (by uncovering you face for example) it sucks being you.
 
  • #7
It's actually pretty reasonable... here's the deal:

She is suing under a law, Florida's "Religious Freedom Restoration Act," which was passed a few years ago. Such acts are quite common; a federal one passed in 1993 but was declared unconsitutional. Basically they say that the government cannot substantially restrict your free exercise of religion, unless they are furthering a "compelling governmental interest" and they are using the "least restrictive means" to do so.

IMO, these acts are very good things: they are meant to cut down on needless, intrusive meddling by government bureaucracies, especially in "special cases" that the legislature might not have thought of. This should be a good thing whether you're liberal or conservative. We've all had experience with annoying, rigid bureaucrats who insist on following some policy to the letter even when it's patently pointless and burdensome.

At the same time, if the legislature feels a restrictive law is important anyways, they can simply amend the RFRA to exempt the law they want; this is the done w.r.t the drug laws.

From what I understand the woman is arguing that since the state exempts many people from the photograph requirement for other reasons, it should exempt her too. I don't know who has the right of it; but if it's not truly a real requirement, then it's not unreasonable that her exemption should stand. And if the court decides this, and Florida disagrees, all the legislature has to do is pass a law saying so.
 
  • #8
I don't think that an unmasked photo should be a requirement for her and not for others...I think that it should be a requirement for others. I disagree with the fact that other people have had exemptions.

We can't let people do just anything in the name of religion. Otherwise, once can say that he belongs to the Babyeaters religion, and therefore cannot be arrested for eating babies.
 
  • #9
Well, everyone beat me to the good points

That's ridiculous when you think about it (but there maybe some compromises as Zero suggests). It defies the purpose of having a photo ID in the first place.
 
  • #10
Originally posted by Sting
Well, everyone beat me to the good points

That's ridiculous when you think about it (but there maybe some compromises as Zero suggests). It defies the purpose of having a photo ID in the first place.

Can't they find her a transparent veil or something?
 
  • #11
It defies the purpose of having a photo ID in the first place.

She doesn't want a photo ID, she wants a driver's liscence. :frown:
 
  • #12
Well, the two go hand-in-hand. Driver's licenses are photo IDs. That's the it's been, and it seems a little extreme to change the whole system for somebody's veil. And they are that way for good reason. When the officer pulls you over, he wants to know that it's you who the picture on the license is of.
 
  • #13
It's another one of those things that could and probably would open a floodgate of similar appeals should her appeal be successful unfortunately.
 
  • #14
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
Well, the two go hand-in-hand. Driver's licenses are photo IDs. That's the it's been, and it seems a little extreme to change the whole system for somebody's veil. And they are that way for good reason. When the officer pulls you over, he wants to know that it's you who the picture on the license is of.

So, can she have her father, brother, or husband take a picture, and have it put on her licence?
 
  • #15
Originally posted by Zero
So, can she have her father, brother, or husband take a picture, and have it put on her licence?
Huh [?]
 
  • #16
Are they going to force her to take off her veil to check if the picture of her without her veil matches? lol
 
  • #17
heh

Seriously, people should not be driving with masks on. Even a wide-brimmed hat is too much to be wearing while driving.

About the father/brother/husband thing, I don't know if anyone has thought of that, Zero. But I don't see how that's useful if she will never de-veil herself in public, anyway.
 
  • #18
Originally posted by Dissident Dan
heh

Seriously, people should not be driving with masks on. Even a wide-brimmed hat is too much to be wearing while driving.

About the father/brother/husband thing, I don't know if anyone has thought of that, Zero. But I don't see how that's useful if she will never de-veil herself in public, anyway.

Well...you just have to wonder, though...I think a lot of people are just against it because it is a different religion from theirs. Americans, for the most part, protested the idea that our military should make a single compromise when in Saudi Arabia, but we expect other cultures to compromise to better fit what we want.
 
  • #19
FYI: the court against the woman, saying she must comply with the photo requirements: http://www.courttv.com/trials/freeman/docs/order.pdf [Broken]
 
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  • #20
Interesting. While driving is a privilege and not a right, what about the need for a photo ID. A person must have one by law in most places.

My religion prevents me from removing my gloves in public. Try to get my thumbprints and I'm going to the ACLU!
 
  • #21
Odd this.

I recently joined a religious order that prosribes it a sin not to drop my drawers and shake my winkie at every female I encounter in public.

Yes, it is an extremely fundamental religion!

It is amazing. I did it once and got arrested!

WTF!

What ever happened to religious freedom anyway??!

Im going to sue...

So a woman can't show her face, and I must show my winkie...

They are both concerning the exhibition of body parts for religious reasons. What gate can we open next?
 
  • #22
Are the photos on her identity cards also veiled? The problem is not that she's appealing now to the courts, the problem is that the traffic administration gave the license, even if the photo was not acceptable. Why did they wait nine months to object?
 

1. What is "Religious Freedom Insanity"?

"Religious Freedom Insanity" refers to the misuse or abuse of religious freedom laws or policies to discriminate against certain individuals or groups. This can include denying services, employment, or other rights based on a person's religious beliefs or practices.

2. How does "Religious Freedom Insanity" impact society?

"Religious Freedom Insanity" can have a significant impact on society by creating divisions and fostering discrimination. It can also lead to a lack of equal opportunities and hinder progress towards a more inclusive and diverse society.

3. What are some examples of "Religious Freedom Insanity"?

Examples of "Religious Freedom Insanity" can include a business owner refusing to serve a customer based on their sexual orientation, a healthcare provider denying care to a patient based on their gender identity, or a school discriminating against a teacher based on their religious beliefs.

4. How can we address and prevent "Religious Freedom Insanity"?

One way to address and prevent "Religious Freedom Insanity" is through education and awareness. It is important to understand the true purpose of religious freedom laws and how they should not be used as a tool for discrimination. Additionally, implementing stricter regulations and consequences for those who misuse religious freedom laws can help prevent such instances.

5. What is the role of science in addressing "Religious Freedom Insanity"?

Science can play a crucial role in addressing "Religious Freedom Insanity" by providing evidence and research on the impact of discrimination and the importance of inclusivity and diversity in society. Additionally, scientists can use their platforms to raise awareness and advocate for policies that promote equality and prevent discrimination based on religious beliefs.

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