Understanding Black Hole Entropy: Consistency Across Reference Frames

In summary, the concept of entropy in black holes is complex and depends on the observer's reference frame. From the perspective of an outside observer, the infalling observer redshifts into nothing, but both observers must agree on the same information content due to the invariance of physical laws. The maximum entropy of a black hole is encoded on its surface, but the microphysical details of how it is stored are still not fully understood without a theory of quantum gravity.
  • #1
FallenApple
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Is entropy consistent from all reference frames? For an observer at the surface of a black hole, a finite amount of time would pass, but the observer would observe an unbounded amount of time passing for the outside universe, hence from his/her reference frame, information, entropy of the outside universe increases without bound, second law of thermodynamics. From the outside observer's perspective, the infalling observer redshifts into nothing. But they must agree on the same information content: that is, entropy, due to the laws of physics being invariant. Thus, black holes have maximum entropy. This entropy is encoded on the surface of the black hole since the outside observer never sees the infalling observer pass the event horizon. Is this reasoning correct?
 
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FallenApple said:
For an observer at the surface of a black hole

There is no such observer; it is impossible to remain static at the horizon of a black hole. All observers must fall inward; they can only be at the horizon for an instant.

FallenApple said:
the observer would observe an unbounded amount of time passing for the outside universe

This is not correct. An observer falling into a black hole only sees a finite amount of time pass in the outside universe before he hits the singularity.

FallenApple said:
Is this reasoning correct?

Obviously not, since it's based on mistaken premises. See above.

Regarding the question of whether the entropy of a black hole is an invariant, as far as I know that is indeed the mainstream view. However, we don't know the microphysical details of how that entropy is "stored" in microscopic degrees of freedom. We probably won't have a good understanding of that until we have a good theory of quantum gravity.
 

Related to Understanding Black Hole Entropy: Consistency Across Reference Frames

1. What is black hole entropy and why is it important in understanding black holes?

Black hole entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness of a black hole's internal structure. It is important because it provides a way to quantify the information contained within a black hole, which is crucial in understanding how black holes behave and evolve.

2. How does entropy relate to reference frames in black holes?

Entropy in black holes is consistent across all reference frames, meaning that the amount of disorder within a black hole remains the same regardless of the observer's perspective. This is due to the fact that entropy is a fundamental property of the black hole itself, rather than the observer's viewpoint.

3. Can entropy be measured in black holes?

Yes, entropy in black holes can be measured using various mathematical equations and physical observations. However, the exact methods and calculations are still being studied and refined by scientists.

4. How does the concept of entropy in black holes relate to the second law of thermodynamics?

The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of a closed system will always increase over time. This applies to black holes as well, as they can only increase in entropy with the absorption of matter and radiation. However, the consistency of entropy across reference frames in black holes may challenge our understanding of the second law.

5. What are the implications of consistent entropy across reference frames in black holes?

If entropy is indeed consistent across all reference frames in black holes, it could have significant implications for our understanding of space, time, and the laws of thermodynamics. It may also lead to new insights into the nature of gravity and the behavior of matter in extreme conditions.

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