Thermal Tumbler and unusual noise....

In summary, the conversation discussed the noise coming from a thermal tumbler and the different theories behind it. One person believed it was caused by pressure escaping due to the temperature difference inside and outside the tumbler, while the other believed it was caused by air rushing in to fill the vacuum created as the liquid cooled. Both theories were considered to be true based on pressure and temperature changes over time. The conversation also touched on the effects of evaporation and condensation on the air inside the tumbler.
  • #1
MC70
Back in... man... probably 1996 I went to work with a thermal tumbler filled with some hot beverage or another. I settled in and took a swig; the liquid was good and hot and I kind of marveled at how well the tumbler worked and how it was nice to have a warm drink in my cool environment and after a chilly ride into work.

As it sat, sealed, on my workbench, it started to make a noise; a high pitched squeal. I was intrigued by that., and the discussion that ensued after pointing it out to a co-worker and my boss has always been vexing. I see both sides of this argument.

My take was that like any sealed vessel with a higher internal temperature, the pressure in the vessel would be higher than the cooler outside pressure, thus the tumbler was effectively venting the pressure which was greater than the seals could, well, seal. The differential was greater due to the cool work environment than it would have been inside my home which was quite a bit warmer. In short, I thought gasses were escaping due to being forced out as the pressure inside the tumbler was higher than the external pressure.

My boss disagreed. His position was that the noise was created by air rushing into the tumbler. His theory was that the liquid was cooling, and so the pressure was dropping at which point regardless of the cooler air outside, it would rush into seals at a matter of a vacuum state developing.

In retrospect I'd say both instances are true based on pressure and temperature changes over time. I suspect that initially the tumbler was purging excess pressure, but at some point this is reversed and the tumbler then starts to draw in atmosphere. I think this is observable when putting a bowl filled with water and covered in plastic wrap in a microwave. Initially the plastic remains flat with room temperature water. Once the water is heated, the wrap expands with the increasing pressure due to the liquid heating enough to create water vapor which then expands. But, as the heating cycle ends, the plastic wrap then shrinks downward and meets the surface of the water, effectively vacuum sealing itself.

What are your thoughts on this?
 
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  • #2
Let's say that the water temperature is 70 degrees C. You open the thermos pour some out and replacing that volume with dry air, then you seal it up again.

So the cold dry air is at 1 atmosphere, 0 psi guage. Now the water in the thermos begins to evaporate adding to that pressure as it mixes with the dry air. The partial pressure of water vapor at 70 degrees C will be 233.7 torr, 0.3075 atmospheres, 4.5 psi. More over, the cool air will now heat up to about 70C, so it will also increase its partial pressure. So it will vent out.

And, yes, given enough time, the partial pressures will reach equilibrium and begin to cool off - perhaps dropping the pressure in the thermos to less than 1 atmosphere.
 
  • #3
Interesting response. The air volume in the tumbler to begin with was very small, and only one sip had been taken. I doubt the air was all that dry since even pouring the hot liquid into the tumbler will create condensation; steam is released as you pour. To that end I'd suggest that evaporative effects would be extremely limited. With that, what is your modified assessment?
 
  • #4
MC70 said:
Interesting response. The air volume in the tumbler to begin with was very small, and only one sip had been taken. I doubt the air was all that dry since even pouring the hot liquid into the tumbler will create condensation; steam is released as you pour. To that end I'd suggest that evaporative effects would be extremely limited. With that, what is your modified assessment?
It's only a matter of degree (no pun intended).
Before the vessel was resealed, it was open to the air and to convective circulation and cooling. The steam you saw was evidence of this. Warm moist air is less dense that cool dry air (yes, moisture makes air less dense). So as the moist air met the room air, it condensed and appeared as visible steam.

When sealed, the air in the thermos may still have been warm and moist, but not at equilibrium with the thermos environment.
 

Related to Thermal Tumbler and unusual noise....

1. What is a thermal tumbler and how does it work?

A thermal tumbler is a type of insulated mug or cup that is designed to keep hot drinks hot and cold drinks cold for extended periods of time. It works by using a double walled construction with a layer of air or vacuum in between, which creates a barrier to prevent heat transfer. This allows the drink to maintain its temperature for longer periods of time.

2. How do I clean a thermal tumbler?

To clean a thermal tumbler, it is important to first check the manufacturer's instructions as they may have specific cleaning recommendations. In general, most thermal tumblers can be hand washed with warm soapy water and a soft cloth or sponge. Avoid using abrasive cleaners or rough sponges as they can damage the surface of the tumbler. Additionally, do not put the tumbler in the dishwasher or microwave as it can also damage the insulation.

3. Why is my thermal tumbler making an unusual noise?

If your thermal tumbler is making an unusual noise, it could be due to a few reasons. One possible reason is that there is a small amount of air trapped between the inner and outer walls of the tumbler, which can cause a rattling or sloshing sound. This is normal and does not affect the performance of the tumbler. Another reason could be that the tumbler is not fully sealed, which can cause air to escape and create a whistling or hissing sound. In this case, check for any cracks or openings in the tumbler and contact the manufacturer for a replacement if needed.

4. Can I put my thermal tumbler in the freezer?

No, it is not recommended to put your thermal tumbler in the freezer. The extreme temperatures can damage the insulation and affect the performance of the tumbler. Additionally, if the tumbler contains liquid, it can expand and potentially crack the tumbler.

5. How long does a thermal tumbler keep drinks hot or cold?

The length of time a thermal tumbler can keep drinks hot or cold varies depending on the quality and insulation of the tumbler, as well as the temperature of the environment. In general, a well-insulated tumbler can keep drinks hot or cold for several hours, with some high-quality tumblers boasting up to 24 hours of insulation. However, factors such as opening and closing the lid, exposure to sunlight, and the type of liquid inside can also affect the duration of insulation.

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