The divergence operator in a rotated reference frame

In summary, the conversation discusses proving the invariance of the divergence operator under a rotation of the reference frame. The speakers use matrix notation and basis transformations to show that derivatives and basis vectors transform the same way. The conversation ends with a suggestion to use polar coordinates as a simpler method of proving the invariance.
  • #1
nonequilibrium
1,439
2
One can easily prove that [itex]\nabla \cdot f[/itex] is invariant under a rotation of the reference frame, however I would like to prove that the divergence operator itself is invariant (same principle, different approach). In other words I want to prove that [itex]\mathbf \nabla = \mathbf e_x \frac{\partial}{\partial x} + \mathbf e_y \frac{\partial}{\partial y} = \mathbf e_{x'} \frac{\partial}{\partial x'} + \mathbf e_{y'} \frac{\partial}{\partial y'}[/itex] where [itex]\mathbf r' = U \mathbf r[/itex] is a coordinate transformation with U orthogonal.

I think matrix notation will simplify things. Rewrite [itex]\nabla = \mathbf e^T \cdot \partial[/itex] where we define [itex]\mathbf e = \left( \begin{align} \mathbf e_x \\ \mathbf e_y \end{align}\right)[/itex] and [itex]\partial = \left( \begin{align} \partial_x \\ \partial_y \end{align} \right)[/itex].

If I remember correctly, the basis transformation is the inverse of the coordinate transformation, i.e. [itex]\mathbf e = U \mathbf e'[/itex]. Also, one can easily check that [itex]\partial = U^T \partial'[/itex] (e.g. [itex]\partial_{x} = \frac{\partial x'}{\partial x} \partial_{x'} + \frac{\partial y'}{\partial x} \partial_{y'} = U_{11} \partial_{x'} + U_{21} \partial_{y'}[/itex])

This gives that [itex]\nabla = \mathbf e^T \cdot \partial = \left( U \mathbf e' \right)^T \cdot \left( U^T \partial' \right) = \mathbf e'^T \; U^T U^T \; \partial' \neq \mathbf e'^T \cdot \partial'[/itex]

Where did I err?
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Actually, googling it a bit, it seems derivatives and basis vectors transform the same way (apparently called "covariantly", although I'm not yet familiar with such language).

So in that case [itex]\mathbf e = U^T \mathbf e'[/itex] and things work out, i.e. [itex]\nabla = \mathbf e^T \cdot \partial = \mathbf e'^T \cdot \partial '[/itex]
 
  • #3
Just bust out some sines and cosines and you should find it all falls out after a bit of tedious algebra.
 
  • #4
Seems like bad advice, the whole notion of vector calculus was invented to avoid the tedious algebra. Anyway it seems I was able to work it out as shown in my previous post.
 
  • #5
I say tedious, it's like four lines:
x' = xcos(t) + ysin(t)
y' = -xsin(t) + ycos(t)

(same for the vectors only you have e1 for x and e2 for y)

then just plug in and substitute d/dx = cos(t)d/dx' + sin(t)d/dy' and also for d/dy and you're done :)
 
  • #6
Oh first off, my previous reply was a bit "harsh" but I thought I was replying to another thread, in a different context (but also happened to be about vector calculus), so anyway sorry about that.

As for your suggestion: I don't see how that requires less work? You seem to be taking the same steps I did? Also my notation makes it valid for all dimensions, which is a nice perk, and also I don't have to explicitly calculate any products, so I'd say my calculations are neater.
 
  • #7
This might be easier to do in polar coordinates. Just a wild guess off the top of my head.
 
  • #8
To be fair, your method is actually more appropriate and does generalise nicely. I just put mine forward as a nice explicit way to show that it's definitely true.

I usually go explicit first in the simplest case, then use nicer and more general notation and then finally generalise a result. I just find it helps build the intuition along the way as nice notation often distances you from that physical interpretation of what's going on.
 

Related to The divergence operator in a rotated reference frame

1. What is the divergence operator in a rotated reference frame?

The divergence operator in a rotated reference frame is a mathematical operation used in vector calculus to measure the rate at which a vector field is flowing away from a given point in a rotated coordinate system. It is denoted by the symbol ∇ · and is also known as the "divergence of a vector field."

2. How is the divergence operator affected by a rotated reference frame?

When a reference frame is rotated, the divergence operator is affected by the change in orientation of the coordinate axes. This means that the resulting divergence value will be different in the rotated frame compared to the original frame.

3. What is the physical significance of the divergence operator in a rotated reference frame?

The physical significance of the divergence operator in a rotated reference frame is that it represents the net flow of a vector field through a given surface in the rotated coordinate system. It is a measure of the source or sink of a vector field at a particular point.

4. How is the divergence operator related to other vector operators in a rotated reference frame?

The divergence operator is related to other vector operators in a rotated reference frame through the vector calculus identity known as the "divergence theorem." This theorem states that the divergence of a vector field is equal to the flux of its curl over a closed surface. It also relates the divergence operator to the gradient and Laplacian operators.

5. What are some practical applications of the divergence operator in a rotated reference frame?

The divergence operator in a rotated reference frame has various applications in physics, engineering, and other fields. It is used to calculate fluid flow rates, solve partial differential equations, and analyze electromagnetic fields, among other things. It is also an essential tool in the study of fluid dynamics and electromagnetism.

Similar threads

  • General Math
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
876
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
1
Views
209
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
980
Replies
8
Views
799
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Classical Physics
Replies
2
Views
982
  • Classical Physics
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
6
Views
1K
Back
Top