The classic 'stone at the end of a thread problem'

In summary, the conversation discusses the analysis of a system from a rotating frame, specifically when a stone attached to a string spins at a high speed. It is mentioned that the string will not become horizontal, but will gradually approach it as the angular velocity increases. There is also a disagreement about the accuracy of a figure in Case 2, with suggestions for corrections. The conversation then moves on to a real-world experience where the angle of a mooring line affected its tension, and how this concept is also used on boats. It is noted that even a small sideways force can greatly increase tension on a taught rope.
  • #1
WorldOfPhysics
11
0
Dear experts,

when a a stone at the end of the string is rotated with a high speed so that the string is suspended making zero degrees with the plane of the ground, how do we analyze the system from the rotating frame.
query.jpg
 
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  • #2
I don't think the string will ever become horizontal. It will asymptotically tend towards horizontal as angular velocity increases.
So the case you are being asked to explain requires no explanation because it doesn't happen.
 
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Likes CWatters and russ_watters
  • #3
I agree with andrewkirk.

The figure in Case 2 (in post #1) is drawn incorrectly. The correct figure should have the label "T" or tension force for the left-pointing arrow, which should point slightly upward and to the left. Then, the magnitude of the downward force Mg should be much smaller than shown -- equal, in fact to the small upward component of the tension force.

Aternatively, Mg could keep the same magnitude, but the centripetal and tension forces would be drawn much larger than shown in Case 2 -- again with the upward component of tension equal to Mg.
 
  • #4
We had a very real world experience of this effect last week when we hired a boat...

The boat had a single main mooring line tied permanently near the front. We entered a lock and moored up by running the mooring line around a vertical pole as shown in the first drawing. The problem came when the lock keeper let water into the lock. This caused a lot of turbulence and it proved impossible for the person holding the free end of the rope to keep us against the bank. The reason was the shallow angle on the rope. The closer the boat gets to the bank the harder it is to pull it any closer.

Boat 1.jpg


The answer was to run the rope as shown in the second drawing...

Boat 2.jpg
 
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Likes andrewkirk
  • #5
In an ideal case, the tension will be proportional to 1/sin(θ) where θ is the angle between the string and horizontal. As θ approaches 0, the tension will approach Infinity. Your perception of the stone being in the same horizontal plane as the support was, in fact, wrong. i.e. θ was very small and appeared to be zero.
There are many examples where a small sideways force can give a massive increase in tension on a taught rope. This is used very often on boats when a mere human can produce super human force against wind and current. (example mentioned above).
 

Related to The classic 'stone at the end of a thread problem'

1. What is the classic 'stone at the end of a thread problem'?

The classic 'stone at the end of a thread problem' is a physics thought experiment that involves a stone tied to the end of a long string or thread. The string is then held at the other end and rotated in a horizontal circle. The question is, what would happen to the stone as the string is rotated?

2. What is the purpose of this thought experiment?

The purpose of this thought experiment is to illustrate the concept of centripetal force and how it affects the motion of objects in circular motion. It also highlights the relationship between centripetal force, speed, and radius of the circular motion.

3. What are the key factors that affect the motion of the stone in this experiment?

The key factors that affect the motion of the stone in this experiment are the centripetal force, the speed at which the string is rotated, and the radius of the circle. These factors determine the direction and magnitude of the force acting on the stone and ultimately determine its motion.

4. What happens to the stone as the string is rotated at a faster speed?

As the string is rotated at a faster speed, the centripetal force acting on the stone increases. This causes the stone to move in a larger circle with a greater velocity. If the speed is increased even further, the string may break due to the increased tension caused by the greater centripetal force.

5. What would happen if the radius of the circle is decreased?

If the radius of the circle is decreased, the centripetal force acting on the stone would increase. This would cause the stone to move in a smaller circle with a higher velocity. Eventually, if the radius is decreased too much, the stone may move too fast and break free from the string due to the increased tension.

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